Avodah Mailing List

Volume 42: Number 59

Sat, 31 Aug 2024

• 1. Re: Deputy Ministers (Micha Berger)
• 2. Encouraging Geirim? (Joel Rich)
• 3. walk humbly (Joel Rich)
• 4. Re: walk humbly (Yosef Gavriel Bechhofer)
• 5. Re: walk humbly (Micha Berger)
• 6. Re: Mamzeirim Not an Issue - Eventually they are lost in the population & Ben PeKuAh (Micha Berger)
• 7. Re: Numerology (Micha Berger)
• 8. Re: Encouraging Geirim? (Micha Berger)
• 9. Re: walk humbly (Yosef Gavriel Bechhofer)

On Sun, Aug 25, 2024 at 05:24:51AM +0000, Joseph Kaplan via Avodah wrote:
> This just kicks the can down the road a bit by requiring us to decide what
> is "significant change." ...

But I didn't make it about the size of the change. Rather the kind of
change involved:
>> I think it's rarely a real change. In the vast majority of cases,
>> we recognize the precedent as binding. We instead note a change in
>> circumstances that mean something significant change that makes that
>> apparent precedent as irrelevent. And that the already existing halakhah
>> needs to be applied to a new case -- which produces a new outcome.

More like what RJK writes about in his earlier response to RnTK:
> >> Putting aside my friend Toby's political opinions which, unsurprisingly,
> >> differ from mine, I'm happy to see that we agree that halacha can change
> >> with the times and circumstances.

I am saying that halakhah can change with the circumstances, which change
with the times. There is much less indication that halakhah can change
directly with the times, eg a shift in values.

Admittedly, that line is blurry. Because a shift in values can change
people's reactions. Is granting women aliyos a direct response to
feminism, or is it a new kavod haberiyos issue for women who now are
offended at something their grandmothers wouldn't have been?

(There I think there is another matter in play... Even if the latter,
the poseiq has to decide whether the better response is to
1- respect her call for kavod or
2- because we could never mitigate every difference in gender roles in
halakhah, or that they are part of halachic theory, the better response
is to not accomodate the change and force a realignment of values.
But that's a whole different discussion, and one we've had many times
before.)

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 Life isn't about finding yourself
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   Life is about creating yourself.
Author: Widen Your Tent                   - Bernard Shaw
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF

Tosfot in chulin 114b (S?V ad) in answering a question, presumes that we
want a ger toshav to progress to become a ger tzedek and thus we
disincentivize him to stay a ger toshav. Any hashkafic thoughts?
bsorot tovot
joel rich
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Kach mkublani mbeit avi abba:
To walk humbly with your God. God requires of man the highest of
sacrifices-anonymity, humility. God hates glamor, fame, external glitter,
and vainglory. He loves the actor who appears on the stage for a short
while, plays his or her part humbly, and disappears immediately without
receiving applause. Man stands in the limelight as long as he is the
Messiah, the anointed one, consecrated to the covenantal community. The
very moment he finishes his job, the lights are dimmed and he disappears
from sight. (Rabbi JB Soloveitchik Days of Deliverance, pp. 45-46) Thoughts?
Bsorot tovot
joel rich
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I don't understand this at all. It seems like gibberish. The Beis Halevi 
disappered from the stage? Reb Chaim, Reb Moshe, and, last but 
definitely not least, the Rov himself??? Everyone has a desire for a 
part in the nitzchiyus of the Beri'ah. In whatever manner he or she 
perceives to be Ratzon Hashem. By me, it is through my seforim, the 
Yerushalmi, the Arukh HaShulchan, etc. This is not a contradiction of 
Hatznei'a Leches. It is to be done with Hatznei'a Leches.

YGB

On 8/28/2024 12:16 AM, Joel Rich via Avodah wrote:
> Kach mkublani mbeit avi abba:
> To walk humbly with your God. God requires of man the highest of 
> sacrifices-anonymity, humility. God hates glamor, fame, external 
> glitter, and vainglory. He loves the actor who appears on the stage 
> for a short while, plays his or her part humbly, and disappears 
> immediately without receiving applause. Man stands in the limelight as 
> long as he is the Messiah, the anointed one, consecrated to the 
> covenantal community. The very moment he finishes his job, the lights 
> are dimmed and he disappears from sight. (Rabbi JB Soloveitchik Days 
> of Deliverance, pp. 45-46) Thoughts?
> Bsorot tovot
> joel rich
>
> _______________________________________________
> Avodah mailing list
> Avo...@lists.aishdas.org
> http://lists.aishdas.org/listinfo.cgi/avodah-aishdas.org

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On Tue, Aug 27, 2024 at 5:16pm EDT, Joel Rich quoted from RYBS on
Rabbi JB Soloveitchik Days of Deliverance (pp. 45-46)
> Kach mkublani mbeit avi abba:
> To walk humbly with your God. God requires of man the highest of
> sacrifices-anonymity, humility. God hates glamor, fame, external glitter,
> and vainglory. He loves the actor who appears on the stage for a short
> while, plays his or her part humbly, and disappears immediately without
> receiving applause...

R Shimon in the haqdamah to Shaarei Yosher says something very related.
Quoting from my trandlation in Widen Your Tent (pg. 56, also available
as page 15 of <https://www.aishdas.org/ShaareiYosher.pdf#page=15>).

We are picking up just after the famous bit about how the key to Chessed
isn't selflessness, but having an "Ani" in the sense of "me and mine"
that goes beyond one's skin. Taking my ability to sacrifice for *my*
children and extending it to *my* friend, *my* community, *my* People,
or even *my* humanity or *my* universe.

Then R Shimon writes:

    If his feelings are broader and include [all of] Creation, that he
    is a great person and also like a small limb in this great body,
    then he is lofty and of great worth. In a great machine, even the
    smallest screw is important if it even serves the smallest role in
    the machine. For the whole is made of parts, and no more than the
    sum of its parts.

Now to summarize a couple of thoughts from Widen on that bit:

Everyone wants the limelight. They dream of being one of the parts of
the engine people discuss, a spark plug or one of the pistons.

But without that screw on the bottom (assuming casings are screwed
together, I don't know) being sufficiently tight, all the oil will run
out and your engine will swiftly melt into a lump of unusable metal.

Anavah is realizing your self-worth comes from being critical to the
machine as a whole and not worrying if people notice it. Tzeni'us is one's
consequent ability to not chase the limelight. Someone who self-defines
in terms of their crucial role in the Divine Plan derives their value
from that Plan, from all of Creation.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 The Maharal of Prague created a golem, and
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   this was a great wonder. But it is much more
Author: Widen Your Tent      wonderful to transform a corporeal person into a
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF    "mensch"!     -Rav Yisrael Salanter

On Sun, Aug 25, 2024 at 03:00:40PM +1000, Rabbi Meir G. Rabi via Avodah wrote:
> But there is a far simpler answer
> the hybrid BP cannot be Shechted, as per Rashi
> because Shechita requires more than half the Simanim be cut
> and the hybrid has only 50% available for cutting
> since the component attributed to the BP parent is already deemed to be
> Shechted.

So then we're talking about an animal that at the end is fully cut --
half by birthright, and half now.

If there is a problem with that, it would be shehiyah, given the time between
the two shechtings.

In which case
> In that case when a 50/50 hybrid breeds with a regular
> the offspring is 75/25 and eminently Shechtable.

A 75/25 would still be a pseudo-shehiyah problem.

Not that I could fully get behind this analysis. I am just trying
close-to-leshitaskha reasoning.

And in any case, you say in the opening:
> Even though Ben PeKuAh requires Shechita for Maris HaAyin
> it is still not a regular Beheimah
> its Shechita is cosmetic.

Not, it's a din. The reason for the din might be mar'is ayin, cheshash,
or to create an appearance that would avoid future error, and thus the
motive could be called "cosmetic", the din itself is at this point
a gezeira, and iqar hadin. Even though it's "only" derabbanan, the
unshechted BP would be as treif as chicken parmesan.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 It's never too late
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   to become the person
Author: Widen Your Tent      you might have been.
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF                    - George Eliot

On Fri, Aug 23, 2024 at 08:21:56AM -0400, Joel Rich via Avodah wrote:
> The Rambam in Hilchot Avel 5:1 says:
> 
> These are the matters forbidden to a mourner on the first day according to
> Scriptural Law and on the remaining [six] days according to Rabbinic Law.
> He is forbidden to ...                                             eleven
> matters in total

> IIRC this is not the only place he has a list and then tells you how many
> items there are in the list. Any insights as to why adding the number of
> items is important?

The famous list of 8 levels of Tzedaqah has the count first. And every
Koteret opens with "Hilkhos X. Yeish bikhlalan N mitzvos: I mitzvos asei,
ve-J mitzvos lo sa'aseih. Vezeh hu portan: ..."

So, if we ignore the side-issue of whether he opens or closes with a
count, the style is ubliquitous to the Yad.

A belebatishe answer... I find it much easier to remember a list if I
know how many items are on it. Or more precisely: I know to continue
proding my memory until I reach the target number.

Could the Rambam just be preparing the avel for when he doesn't have a
Yad in front of him by providing the count as a mnemonic?

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 When a king dies, his power ends,
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   but when a prophet dies, his influence is just
Author: Widen Your Tent      beginning.
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF                  - Soren Kierkegaard

On Tue, Aug 27, 2024 at 05:14:13PM -0400, Joel Rich via Avodah wrote:
> Tosfot in chulin 114b (S"V ad) in answering a question, presumes that we
> want a ger toshav to progress to become a ger tzedek and thus we
> disincentivize him to stay a ger toshav. Any hashkafic thoughts?

A geir toshav already threw in his lot with us. In terms of anti-semitism,
in terms of any Jewish successes, and in terms of knowing the size of
the burden he is taking on.

I don't see anything hashkafically interesting here. It's a case where
the reasons to dissuade don't exist.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 Like a bird, man can reach undreamed-of
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   heights as long as he works his wings.
Author: Widen Your Tent      But if he relaxes them for but one minute,
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF    he plummets downward.   - Rav Yisrael Salanter

On 8/28/2024 6:19 PM, Micha Berger via Avodah wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 27, 2024 at 5:16pm EDT, Joel Rich quoted from RYBS on
> Rabbi JB Soloveitchik Days of Deliverance (pp. 45-46)
>> Kach mkublani mbeit avi abba:
>> To walk humbly with your God. God requires of man the highest of
>> sacrifices-anonymity, humility. God hates glamor, fame, external glitter,
>> and vainglory. He loves the actor who appears on the stage for a short
>> while, plays his or her part humbly, and disappears immediately without
>> receiving applause...

> R Shimon in the haqdamah to Shaarei Yosher says something very related.
...
>      If his feelings are broader and include [all of] Creation, that he
>      is a great person and also like a small limb in this great body,
>      then he is lofty and of great worth. ...

I don't think Reb Shimon is saying anything like RYBS said. If anything,
RSS is far more in line with Slabodka. It's Gadlus Ha'Adam. Just that
the very small cog in the machine is also legitimately entitled to feel
greatness, as he is also essential to nitzchiyus.

To be melamed zechus on RYBS, I think he may mean that the individual
(the lonely man of faith) should be able to find satisfaction in his one
internal sense of accomplishment, whether he is applauded or not. But
the use of the term "anonymity" is imprecise.

YGB


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