Avodah Mailing List

Volume 42: Number 58

Tue, 27 Aug 2024

• 1. BPeKuAh and Mamzeirim, also Murder 1 to save Many, also KaVuA, OBriens Meat (Rabbi Meir G. Rabi)
• 2. Re: Deputy Ministers (Joseph Kaplan)

Danny Schoemann <doni...@gmail.com> wrote
 Re: Mamzeirim Not an Issue - Eventually they are lost in the population &
Ben PeKuAh

Even though Ben PeKuAh requires Shechita for Maris HaAyin
it is still not a regular Beheimah
its Shechita is cosmetic.

Therefore, if it breeds with a regular Beheimah
it will produce a hybrid that cannot be made Kosher even if Shechted.

If we accept that even the tiniest proportion of Ben PeKuAh can have this
effect
then we have a problem in that the entire world Beheimah population might
be infected and disqualified from Shechita

So, just as R' Jay, I think, was proposing that Mamzeirim get lost and are
unidentified in the world population
I was wondering if the same may be true about the tainted BP Beheimah
population.


But there is a far simpler answer
the hybrid BP cannot be Shechted, as per Rashi
because Shechita requires more than half the Simanim be cut
and the hybrid has only 50% available for cutting
since the component attributed to the BP parent is already deemed to be
Shechted.

In that case when a 50/50 hybrid breeds with a regular
the offspring is 75/25 and eminently Shechtable.

Also, there are those that do not require this Shechitah - those that have

+++++++++

R Micha wrote
re Murder a Chok or Logically Compelling

I was paraphrasing someone else who posted this case -
people stranded on a boat, where rescue is most unlikely. All will die of
starvation unless they kill one and the others will survive by consuming
this person's flesh -
to illustrate that the Halacha is counter intuitive.

I disagreed suggesting this is a misrepresentation of Halacha
as Rashi disagrees
Rashi holds if the mafia threaten someone AND his family
unless he dispatches one person
he must kill that person to save many lives.

Your illustration Micha,
A surgeon who can save 5 people
by randomly selecting and killing an uninvolved person

is not at all similar to those stranded in the boat
where they are all involved and all will certainly die from this scenario
this situation is what is going to kill them all

Incomparable to selecting a random person
even a person who is about to die from some other cause.

++++++++

R Micha posted
 O'Brien's Quality Meat - Kol DePorish MeRubbah Porish

an unlabeled box of meat falls off O'Brien's Quality Meat truck.
A Yid sees the box, has no idea where it came from
calls his Rabbi who Paskens it is Kosher
Kol DePorish MeRubbah Porish

He makes a BBQ and invites his neighbour
as they are enjoying this repast
he regales his friends with the story and his find and his Rabbi's Pesak.

One of the friends says
Hey I saw A box falling off Obriens Neveilah truck in that precise location

This observation changes nothing bcs
it does not make it KaVuA for anyone not even for the chap who saw if fall
off the truck
there is already a Pesak that it is Muttar.

This parallels what you have probably heard before
a grandmother was married, lost her husband in the Churban of Europe,
{May HKBH Avenge Their Blood and may we see it with our own eyes}
was granted a Hetter to marry which she did
and now when meeting the families of her engaged grandchild
discovers someone who remembers her and her husband
and is aware that her first husband was not dead at the time she got
remarried.

Best,

Meir G. Rabi

0423 207 837
+61 423 207 837
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This just kicks the can down the road a bit by requiring us to decide what
is "significant change." And let's stick with women -- deaf -- mutes are
a much easier case since I doubt anyone in this list (and beyond) really
wants to treat people who use ASL to speak as a cheireish in the Talmud.

So, what about aliyot? At a time when most women couldn't read Hebrew, it
might have been impugning the kavod hatzibur to give them aliyot rather
than men. But in times where there has been significant change such
that there is universal teaching of Torah to women on a level equal or
almost equal to men in many communities, is that a "significant change"
enough to revert to "all are called up for aliyot."

Or in a time when there has been such significant change in the status of
women such that there are women CEOs and women heads of schools including
yeshivot and women candidates for the most powerful position in the world,
what's the to'eles of telling such a women CEO or principal (I don't think
this question applies to Harris) that she can't be a shul president or,
indeed, a shul rabbi other than to treat her as a second class citizen
and perhaps both turn her off to Torah and mitzvot and/or deprive the
shul and its members of the very best candidate fur the job?

Significant change is a pretty flexible standard.

Joseph
Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 20, 2024, at 4:29PM, Micha Berger <mi...@aishdas.org> wrote:
>> Putting aside my friend Toby's political opinions which, unsurprisingly,
>> differ from mine, I'm happy to see that we agree that halacha can change
>> with the times and circumstances.

> I think it's rarely a real change. In the vast majority of cases,
> we recognize the precedent as binding. We instead note a change in
> circumstances that mean something significant change that makes that
> apparent precedent as irrelevent. And that the already existing halakhah
> needs to be applied to a new case -- which produces a new outcome.

> For example, a deaf mute who can learn and communicate through a sign
> language like ASL isn't in the same situation as a cheireish. We didn't
> change the dinim for cheireish; we found that the existing laws simply
> had underlying assumptions that don't apply after means of communication
> were invented.

> RAYK's pesaq was based on the idea that the state wouldn't allow women
> sufferage, thereby avoiding women having sherarah. But if the electoral
> body includes women having sherarah either way, the motive for the
> his saying it is prohibited is undecut. Instead other aspects of our
> lives would be made more difficult by losing votes, but for no to'eles.


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