Avodah Mailing List

Volume 42: Number 48

Sun, 14 Jul 2024

• 1. ana hashem (Joel Rich)
• 2. Re: Guide to Blessings (Brent Kaufman)
• 3. Binfol oyvecha (Akiva Miller)
• 4. Re: Binfol oyvecha (Ari Zivotofsky)
• 5. Re: time away from learning? (Micha Berger)
• 6. Re: Binfol oyvecha (Micha Berger)

Heard from R Asher Weiss ? ana in ana hashem ki ani avdecha is spelled with
a hei not an alef. The radak says it?s a lashon hodaah ? (ie we are
thankful to be ovdei hashem).
I?d heard it as a request without a direct object ? we just want a
relationship with HKBH. Thoughts?
bsorot tovot
joel rich
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This is a smaller abridged version of the bigger many may recognize. I
think it is just what you're looking for. It is simply a list of foods and
brochos.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/373367095315?itmmeta=01J2DVXG28MQFS6ZDPB5MMRWFD&;hash=item56ee69c013:g:zGAAAOSwT3hfv9ix

Chaimbaruch Kaufman
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.
About 15-20 years ago, we had several discussions about the minhag of
removing wine from our cups at the Seder. To find those discussions - which
spanned several different volumes of Avodah, and under several different
Subject lines, please go to the alphabetical index at
https://aspaqlaria.aishdas.org/avodah/getindex.cgi?section=B and look for
the word "binfol".

At the time, I understood that the reason for removing the wine is based on
the pasuk "binfol oyvekha al tismach" - we rejoice over Yetzias Mitzraim,
but at the same time, we must tone down that joy, because of our sadness
that the Mitzrim suffered in the process.

Some of the chevrah had a different view, though, and they claimed that we
do NOT have to lessen our joy; that pasuk only refers to *Jewish* enemies.
I did not find those arguments convincing.

I want to thank R' Joel Rich for his Audio Roundup 2024:22, in which he
linked to this shiur from Rabbi Eli Reich of Sha'alvim:
https://www.yutorah.org/lectures/1098499 (44 minutes long)

In this shiur, Rabbi Reich presents both sides of this argument, and in my
opinion, he did so rather fairly. However (spoiler alert!) he ended up
coming down *against* using that pasuk to explain this minhag, and in fact,
he came down against restraining our joy at all. I found his explanation to
be clear and convincing, and I plan to listen to it again, several times,
not while driving but at my desk where I can write notes, and figure out
how I am going to explain this to my family next Pesach.

If anyone else wants to open their mind to this idea, the link, again, is
at https://www.yutorah.org/lectures/1098499

(In addition, I must thank RJR in general, for *all* his Audio Roundups. It
is a great selection of shiurim, and I have listened to many of them when I
commute to work. It turns a nerve-wracking drive to a mitzva-filled one.)

Akiva Miller
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For a great article about the drops of wine see this article by Zvi Ron.
Nothing to do with tempering joy:
https://hakirah.org/Vol19Ron.pdf

I wrote briefly about tempering joy. See here:
https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/joy-at-the-downfall-of-the-wicked-al-baghdadi-boteach-got-it-wrong/




________________________________
From: Avodah <avodah-boun...@lists.aishdas.org> on behalf of Akiva Miller via Avodah <avo...@lists.aishdas.org>
Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2024 1:19 AM
To: avo...@aishdas.org <avo...@aishdas.org>
Cc: Akiva Miller <akivagmil...@gmail.com>
Subject: [Avodah] Binfol oyvecha

.
About 15-20 years ago, we had several discussions about the minhag of
removing wine from our cups at the Seder. To find those discussions - which
spanned several different volumes of Avodah, and under several different
Subject lines, please go to the alphabetical index at https://aspaqlaria.aishdas.org/avodah/getindex.cgi?section=B
and look for the word "binfol".

At the time, I understood that the reason for removing the wine is based on
the pasuk "binfol oyvekha al tismach" - we rejoice over Yetzias Mitzraim,
but at the same time, we must tone down that joy, because of our sadness
that the Mitzrim suffered in the process.

Some of the chevrah had a different view, though, and they claimed that we
do NOT have to lessen our joy; that pasuk only refers to *Jewish* enemies.
I did not find those arguments convincing.

I want to thank R' Joel Rich for his Audio Roundup 2024:22, in which he
linked to this shiur from Rabbi Eli Reich of Sha'alvim: https://www.yutorah.org/lectures/1098499
(44 minutes long)

In this shiur, Rabbi Reich presents both sides of this argument, and in my
opinion, he did so rather fairly. However (spoiler alert!) he ended up
coming down *against* using that pasuk to explain this minhag, and in fact,
he came down against restraining our joy at all. I found his explanation to
be clear and convincing, and I plan to listen to it again, several times,
not while driving but at my desk where I can write notes, and figure out
how I am going to explain this to my family next Pesach.

If anyone else wants to open their mind to this idea, the link, again, is
at https://www.yutorah.org/lectures/1098499

(In addition, I must thank RJR in general, for *all* his Audio Roundups. It
is a great selection of shiurim, and I have listened to many of them when I
commute to work. It turns a nerve-wracking drive to a mitzva-filled one.)

Akiva Miller
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On Wed, Jun 26, 2024 at 06:33:26AM +0300, Joel Rich via Avodah wrote:
> The gemara (sukka 53a) records some herculean juggling by some leading
> rabbinic figures (R shimon ben gamliel, levi, shmuel and abaye). Would you
> assume this skill took practice or was it a supernatural gift. If the
> former, what does that imply for our time allocation priorities?

Even if it was natural skill, we still don't know.

Maybe in theor culture, kids liked practicing juggling. In which case,
the adult tannaim or amoraim could have just kept it up while engagimg
in chazarah, just to stay limber and healthy.


R Eliezer / Dr Leon Ehrenpreis was one of the top mathematicians of his
generation. His levayah was an eclectic mix of Orthodox Jews and fellow
mathematicians. (Obviously, overlapping sets.)

A member of his department gave a eulogy that began with how they met.
The speaker entered his office in Temple U for a job interview, and faced
a pair of feet. Looking down, there REE was, standing on his head, and
juggling. Apparently, seeing if he could solve problems while distracted
was part of the interview.

REE also ran the NY Marathon every year ad ve'ad bikhlal reaching 79!

I don't know if these members of Chazal shared his priorities, but I want
to reiterate that he didn't stop thinking Torah in order to practice
these other pursuits. (Even math... his non-Jewish co-workers reported
Torah comming up often in their discussions.)

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 It's never too late
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   to become the person
Author: Widen Your Tent      you might have been.
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF                    - George Eliot

On Fri, Jul 12, 2024 at 06:19:41PM -0400, Akiva Miller via Avodah wrote:
> About 15-20 years ago, we had several discussions about the minhag of
> removing wine from our cups at the Seder. To find those discussions - which
> spanned several different volumes of Avodah, and under several different
> Subject lines, please go to the alphabetical index at
> https://aspaqlaria.aishdas.org/avodah/getindex.cgi?section=B and look for
> the word "binfol".

To add a little nuance... Our discussions were less about what the origin of the
minhag was and more about the Jewishness of the idea.

IOW, the claim was made that this new explanation came from the non-O mocements,
amd really such compassion for our enemies reflects a Christian ethic that is
at odds with the Torah.

I didn't really care that much if we did repurpose the minhag in the 20th century
as deal with the inderlying odea - this new wxplanation is indeed a Jewish ethical
stance. Whether it really motivated the minhag or not.

And we have enoug sources making the same claim about binfol oyivkha even about
nakhri nations that attack us. We even have the new explanation about binfol
offered in thr name of some more recent gedolim.

I ended up collectimg the results for that side of the argument at
http://aspaqlaria.aishdas.org/2014/01/08/compassion-for-our-enemies/

...
> At the time, I understood that the reason for removing the wine is based on
> the pasuk "binfol oyvekha al tismach"...
> Some of the chevrah had a different view, though, and they claimed that we
> do NOT have to lessen our joy; that pasuk only refers to *Jewish* enemies.
> I did not find those arguments convincing.

Or, as I wpuld suggest, we *do* have to lessen our joy. Even the Beis
Yoseif applies this to Chatzi Hallel for the end of Pesach! However,
this was not the original motive of the minhag of reducing the cup of
wine for each makkah (and each of R Yehudah's simanim).

> I want to thank R' Joel Rich for his Audio Roundup 2024:22, in which he
...
> (In addition, I must thank RJR in general, for *all* his Audio Roundups. It
> is a great selection of shiurim, and I have listened to many of them when I
> commute to work. It turns a nerve-wracking drive to a mitzva-filled one.)

Hear hear!

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 What you get by achieving your goals
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   is not as important as
Author: Widen Your Tent      what you become by achieving your goals.
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF            - Henry David Thoreau


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