Avodah Mailing List

Volume 40: Number 24

Tue, 05 Apr 2022

• 1. Making a siyum in 90 minutes (Prof. L. Levine)
• 2. Re: [Areivim] Making a siyum in 90 minutes (Prof. L. Levine)
• 3. Re: Yaysay v'Yaychol (Zvi Lampel)
• 4. Re: [Areivim] Making a siyum in 90 minutes (Zev Sero)
• 5. Re: [Areivim] Making a siyum in 90 minutes (Zev Sero)
• 6. Re: Yaysay v'Yaychol (Zev Sero)
• 7. Re: Can one kasher plastic bowls and utensils for Pesach? (Arie Folger)
• 8. Re: Chamets - Whiskey & Vinegar (Arie Folger)

For a bechor stuck at home. See attached video first.

*Harav Asher Weiss Shlit"a on Making Your Own Siyum (for Taanis Bechoros) in under 90 minutes*

*Harav Asher Weiss Shlit'a*: So let me say this, *if you can actually do a
Siyum, that's preferable*. One of my Talmidim had a great idea, & he
recorded himself the entire Meseches Makkos Yerushalmi, it's the shortest
Mesechta in Shas.
So one of my Talmidim in Eretz Yisrael went through *the entire Meseches
Makkos Yerushalmi, 90 minutes*. So you can log in & *in an hour in a
half you can learn together with him the entire Meseches & have a Siyum
??????????????. Isn't it greater to do a Siyum yourself then just listening
to another one?*

Links to the 9 short shiurim on Yerushalmi Makkos that Harav asher mentioned (totaling under 90 minutes):
Daf ?? - https://youtu.be/gZz_npt6Ts0
Daf ?? - https://youtu.be/FagfeU79NB0
Daf ?? - https://youtu.be/mzTUKV8INbA
Daf ?? - https://youtu.be/N0p_CS_xCi0
Daf ?? - https://youtu.be/7KW_UtuotZ8
Daf ?? - https://youtu.be/7XecCsb6-8E
Daf ?? - https://youtu.be/Lp0ZbUZ3sIo
Daf ?? - https://youtu.be/4MAZjA8YW4s
Daf ?? - https://youtu.be/vYGGPVF_xoo
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[VID-20220403-WA0015.mp4] VID-20220403-WA0015.mp4 <file://E:\attachments\VID-20220403-WA0015.mp4>

Yitzchok Levine(who is a bechor!)
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On Sun, Apr 03, 2022 at 10:00:47PM +0000, Prof. L. Levine via Areivim wrote:
> For a bechor stuck at home. See attached video first.
>
> *Harav Asher Weiss Shlit"a on Making Your Own Siyum (for Taanis Bechoros) in under 90 minutes*
>
> *Harav Asher Weiss Shlit'a*: So let me say this, *if you can actually
> do a Siyum, that's preferable*. One of my Talmidim had a great idea,
> & he recorded himself the entire Meseches Makkos Yerushalmi, it's the
> shortest Mesechta in Shas.
...
Micha Berger wrote:

I am wondering whether that really works, or if we're taking a Corona heter
and turning into a norm.

After all, where is the simchas mitzvah that would underly making a
se'udah? Is someone really making a se'udah over completing 90 minutes
of learning? (Although if someone really does feel that simchah over 90
minutes of learning, kol hakavod!)

I do not know how a siyum Eruv Pesach is made where you daven,	but the
ones I have attended are done as quickly as possible, and then some non
Gebrockts "cake" and juice are served and people run home. Not much simcha
as far as I am concerned.

I will grant you that in this 90-minute siyum there will probably be no kaddish unless one gathers a minyan for this in one's home.

YL
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[Notice this exchange was back in 2020. -micha]

From: Micha Berger <mi...@aishdas.org>
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 16:28:42 -0400
> On Sat, Apr 04, 2020 at 10:06:22PM -0400, Akiva Miller via Avodah wrote:
>> Kol dichfin, yaysay v'yaychol!
>> All who are hungry, come and eat!
>> ... odd and awkward to invite a guest to the meal after we've already
>> said Kiddush.
...

RMB:
> Again, all the more so for veyifsach -- inviting people after the chaburah
> was formed and the qorban was even shechted.

>> ... "Haggada Berurah"...
>>      authored by Hanan Minkowich in 5752 [cites Maasei Nissim that]:

>>> Ha Lachma Anya is a sort of Kinah, which was established in Bavel as a
>>> kiyum of "Im Lo Aaleh Es Yerushalayim Al Rosh Simchasi." When the Beis
>>> Hamikdash stood, the Korban Pesach was eaten only by those who had signed
>>> up for it, which does not apply today. So we are m'konen, we lament that
>>> this is merely poor bread; anyone can come and eat it, for we have no
>>> Korban Pesach to sign up for. And then, before continuing with the Story,
>>> we have the consolation that "This year we are here, next year etc etc"

RMB:
> Seems muchrakh.

I checked this out in Sefaria, and that's what the Maasei Nissim
commentary says, but I'm puzzled.

His answer seems to include that "Vayifsach" is not meant literally as
eating the real korban Pesach (and thus making chabura formation
unnecessary). "Vaiffsach" merely means "eating the meal we have in galus
in commemoration of the meal that included the korban Pesach." But if so,
the whole explanation of this being a Kinah is unnecessary to account
for how we can invite anyone who was not registered for the chaburah.

Zvi Lampel

On 4/4/22 10:29, Micha Berger via Avodah wrote:
> I am wondering whether that really works, or if we're taking a Corona heter
> and turning into a norm.

This is not a "corona heter", it's already the norm!

I'm not sure of the original context of this thread, or whether it has 
any connection to "corona heterim", but it sounds like R Weiss is saying 
"why rely on heterim when you can make a proper siyum that is valid 
lechatchila", and recommends this as a way to do so.

-- 
Zev Sero            Wishing you a happy and kosher Pesach, and a
z...@sero.name       healthy season appropriate to your hemisphere

PS: Here is a piece by R Weiss on the general topic of making a siyum 
and the various leniencies available for Erev Pesach.  I have not yet 
had time to learn it through, but a quick scan highlighted some 
interesting material.

https://minchasasher.com/shiur/parsha-shiurim/making-a-siyum-on-a-masechta-hebrew/

-- 
Zev Sero            Wishing you a happy and kosher Pesach, and a
z...@sero.name       healthy season appropriate to your hemisphere

On 3/4/22 11:05, Zvi Lampel via Avodah wrote:
> I checked this out in Sefaria, and that's what the Maasei Nissim
> commentary says, but I'm puzzled.
> 
> His answer seems to include that "Vayifsach" is not meant literally as
> eating the real korban Pesach (and thus making chabura formation
> unnecessary). "Vaiffsach" merely means "eating the meal we have in galus
> in commemoration of the meal that included the korban Pesach." But if so,
> the whole explanation of this being a Kinah is unnecessary to account
> for how we can invite anyone who was not registered for the chaburah.

Haynu hach.  "Since merov chata'enu we are not having a proper korban 
pesach but only a pseudo-pesach with no restrictions on who may attend, 
you may as well come and join us if you need to.  We wish we weren't 
able to invite you, because we'd be eating a korban pesach, but since we 
aren't, welcome."

-- 
Zev Sero            Wishing you a happy and kosher Pesach, and a
z...@sero.name       healthy season appropriate to your hemisphere

RMB wrote:
> Speaking balebatishly for a minute... Anyone who has seen how
> rapidly plastic picks up indelible stains really has a hard time
> understanding where there is room to be choleiq with RMF. The rate
> of beli'ah is experimentally verifiable to be quite high. Potentially
> comparable to Chazal era pottery, although I cannot be sure since I
> never served on pottery the way they made a keli cheres. Definitely
> possible, and certainly at least similar, in terms of RMF pasqening
> lechumera because we just don't know.

That is exactly how I explain the issues of belios to people unfamiliar
with it (mostly non Jews at companies I audit, but also Jews who need to
hear this.
-- 
Mit freundlichen Gr??en,
Yours sincerely,

Arie Folger
Visit my blog at http://rabbifolger.net/

<http://rabbifolger.net/2016/01/28/wir-missionieren-nicht-aber-warum-nicht/>
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R' Meir Rabi posted an essay (I think from the OU, though I really don't
know, as no source was provided) regarding the question whether distilled
spirits and vinegar are really chametz and on what basis.

I have no beef with most of the article, except for a crucial factual
statement that is IMNSHO wrong. The article states:
> Bourbon and whiskey begin their life pretty much the same as beer,
> fermentation of wheat and or barley. However, the initial product is
> fermented to its maximum alcoholic value and then distilled which
> separates and concentrates the alcohol. After a couple of distillations,
> it is almost 100% pure, colourless and purified to the point that there
> is no discernible difference between alcohol derived from wine, potato
> or wheat.

That, my friends, is, I am afraid, incorrect or very imprecise.

The process of distillation allows for separating different molecules that
have different boiling points. As a mixed liquid is gradually heated, some
molecules will become excited sooner than others, and evaporate. However,
it would be very costly and counter productive to carry out such a precise
distillation that would result in the production or really pure ethanol, as
then there would indeed be no difference between wheat, barley, potato,
rice, plum, cherry, grape or petroleum derived alcohol. How would we get to
enjoy a whiskey tasting differently from a kirsch from a drandy or cognac,
from sake etc.?

While the distillation of crude petroleum is carried out in very tall
distillation columns with many many stages, resulting in the fractioning of
the crude oil into many different petrochemicals, the distillation of
spirits for drinking is done very differently. When distilling spirits, a
head fraction is discarded to waste (that is the part with a dangerously
high methanol content - methanol boils at atmospheric pressure at 64.7?C,
while ethanol boils at over 78?C), while the rest of the distillate,
containing a mixture of lots of ethanol but also a bunch of other fragrant,
tasty molecules is then turned into the high content mix from which the
whiskey, bourbon or whatever drink will be made, each one from its own
original and not-interchangeable distillate.

What is left in the sump contains no alcohol, is rich in water, and may or
may not be used in the production of certain extracts and other secondary
products.

So, no, post distillation the alcohols are not interchangeable, and whiskey
totally contains flavors from the fermented barley, sake from the fermented
rice, kirsch from the fermented cherries, slivovitz from the fermented
plums, cognac from the distilled wine, etc.

Kol tuv,
-- 
Mit freundlichen Gr??en,
Yours sincerely,

Arie Folger
Visit my blog at http://rabbifolger.net/

<http://rabbifolger.net/2016/01/28/wir-missionieren-nicht-aber-warum-nicht/>
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