Avodah Mailing List

Volume 38: Number 91

Thu, 05 Nov 2020

• 1. Does one recite the beracha of Shehechiyanu when purchasing a fur coat or a hat? (Prof. L. Levine)
• 2. Re: Catholic Judges in Capital Cases (Micha Berger)
• 3. Re: Catholic Judges in Capital Cases (Rich, Joel)
• 4. Re: Teaching your child a trade (Micha Berger)
• 5. Re: Catholic Judges in Capital Cases (Micha Berger)
• 6. The Delet Hakodesh and Lot (Brent Kaufman)
• 7. Re: The Delet Hakodesh and Lot (Micha Berger)
• 8. Re: Names of the Months (Micha Berger)
• 9. Re: The Delet Hakodesh and Lot (Brent Kaufman)
• 10. Re: The Delet Hakodesh and Lot (Micha Berger)
• 11. Re: Teaching your child a trade (Akiva Miller)

From today's OU Kosher Halacha Yomis


Q. Does one recite the beracha of Shehechiyanu when purchasing a fur coat or a hat?

A. Shulchan Aruch (OC 223:3) writes that the beracha of Shehechiyanu is
recited when one purchases an expensive article of clothing. Does this
Halacha also apply to one who purchased an expensive fur coat or hat?
Perhaps it is inappropriate to recite Shehechiyanu ?that he has kept us
alive?, since the making of the coat involved the killing of animals.
Indeed, the Rema (OC 223:6) writes that although it is customary to wish
one who buys a new suit ?tivleh v?tischadeish? (you should wear it out and
replace it), this blessing should not be said to one who purchased leather
shoes or clothing made from hides, since this would require slaughtering
more animals, and the verse in Tehilim (145:9) states ?V?rachamav al kol
ma?asav? (His kindness is on all his creations). The Rema concludes that
although this line of reasoning is very weak and does not appear to be
correct, still many are careful about this.


The Rema does not address the berachah of shehechiyanu, and this would seem
to indicate that it is recited. Indeed, the Pri Migadim (Mishbitzos Zahav
OC 22:1) states that one recites Shehechiyanu on a fur coat. He explains
that Shehechiyanu is recited, since at the time when one purchases the
coat, the animals were already killed, but it is inappropriate to bless
someone with ?tivleh v?tischadeish?, since that is a wish for the future
killing of animals.


There is a dissenting opinion. Sefer Mor V?ahalos (Ohel Brachos siman 24)
disagrees with the Pri Migadim and writes that shehechiyanu should not be
recited on a fur coat, just as one does not say ?tivleh v?tischadeish?.
However, later poskim such as the Sdei Chemed (5:Berachos 28:6) side with
the Pri Migadim. Others point out that even the Rema wrote that the reasons
to not say ?tivleh v?tischadeish? do not appear to be correct. Certainly,
one should not rely on logic when there is a requirement to say a beracha.

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On Tue, Nov 03, 2020 at 10:38:10PM +0000, Rich, Joel via Avodah wrote:
> I found the statements below particularly interesting and would love to
> discuss parallels with our thought:

The then-future Justice Barrette wrote:
>> CATHOLIC JUDGES IN CAPITAL CASES
>> To anticipate our conclusion just briefly, we believe that Catholic
>> judges (if they are faithful to the teaching of their church) are
>> morally precluded from enforcing the death penalty....

OTOH, the 7 mitzvos Benei Noach allow the use of capital punishment.

On the meta-issue, Xianity has "render unto Caesar", which may be the
cultural basis for accepting a separation of church and state. Whereas
halakhah very much avoids drawing a line between religion and state.

In fact, because the 7 mitzvos include batei dinim, a Torah observant
judge may at times be called on to be machmir in this halakhah at the
expense of another. So to me the question would be halachic parameted;
exactly when does a SCOTUS's *halachic* obligation to uphold the
Constitution, or another judge's or juror, or attourny's duty to uphold
the law override what?

Given that the law often involves both capital punishment and war, I
am not even sure piquach nefesh can be trivially taken off the table
in other contexts either.

>> In Catholic moral theology, there is an extensive literature on
>> this subject, usually collected under the heading of cooperation
>> with evil. Stated abstractly, these are cases where one person ("the
>> cooperator") gives physical or moral assistance to another person ("the
>> wrongdoer") who is doing some immoral action...

Like mesayeia and lifnei iver?

RJR again:
> Implicit in the Chief Justice's observation are two reasons why we
> should not automatically disqualify judges for holding such views or
> convictions. One is that everyone has them. If we applied this criterion
> faithfully we would disqualify the entire judiciary. The rule of necessity
> that allows judges to sit on cases about judicial compensation applies
> here too: better a flawed judge than no judge at all. The second is
> that the possession of convictions is not only inevitable, it is to some
> extent desirable.

The whole idea of a separation of religion and state becomes
impossible. Laws should be moral. Religion (including the various forms
of atheism as religions for this purpose) provides the framework by
which an individual decides what is moral. No judge, for that matter no
legislator or voter, could entirely avoid bringing their religion into
their politics.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 Our greatest fear is not that we're inadequate,
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   Our greatest fear is that we're powerful
Author: Widen Your Tent      beyond measure
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF                      - Anonymous

> 
> The whole idea of a separation of religion and state becomes
> impossible. Laws should be moral. Religion (including the various forms
> of atheism as religions for this purpose) provides the framework by
> which an individual decides what is moral. No judge, for that matter no
> legislator or voter, could entirely avoid bringing their religion into
> their politics.
> 
> Tir'u baTov!
> -Micha
> 
> And if not religion then whatever ethics/morals they?ve developed from
> whatever source. I?ve listened to a ton of podcasts trying to
> understand what that source is. As best as I can understand that it?s
> from the gut with an evolution with similarly believing people. I?m
> trying to understand why secularists think that their approaches are
> any better if they think about it cognitively ,not emotionally.
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On Wed, Nov 04, 2020 at 11:48:40AM +0000, Rich, Joel via Avodah wrote:
> 2.psulei eidut sanhedrin 24b include dice players - r sheishet says
> because not involved in yishuvo shel olam. A good father will consider
> this imho

Yishuvo shel olam includes teaching Torah, doing charity work, and lots
of things a person can do other than a money making profession.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

On Wed, Nov 04, 2020 at 03:17:08PM +0000, Rich, Joel wrote:
>> The whole idea of a separation of religion and state becomes
>> impossible. Laws should be moral. Religion (including the various forms
>> of atheism as religions for this purpose) provides the framework by
>> which an individual decides what is moral. No judge, for that matter no
>> legislator or voter, could entirely avoid bringing their religion into
>> their politics.

> And if not religion then whatever ethics/morals they've developed from
> whatever source. ... As best as I can understand that it's from the
> gut with an evolution with similarly believing people. I'm trying to
> understand why secularists think that their approaches are any better
> if they think about it cognitively,not emotionally.

This fits perfectly between the parentheses in my previous post --
"(including the various forms of atheism as religions for this purpose)".

By saying that our moral code is supposed to be whatever strategy our
genes have successfully copies themselves with, one is also taking a
religious position. One is enshrining a *lack* of higher calling.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 There's only one corner of the universe
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   you can be certain of improving,
Author: Widen Your Tent      and that's your own self.
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF             - Aldous Huxley

Regarding the narrative of Lot, I have 2 questions:

1) the door of Lot?s house is mentioned 3 (THREExxx) times. That in itself
is unusual, but the second time, when Lot is between the mob of thousands
and the door, the mob is pushing soo hard that the Torah tells us that they
were about to break down the door. Anyone have an obvious question?
Before they even get to the door, they would have had to completely crush
Lot to death, but the Torah is more concerned to tell us about the poor
door that almost broke. What?s up with that?

2) Lot offers his daughters to be gang raped and killed by an unimaginable
number of brutal animals rather than hand over his guests, whom he just
met, to the same fate.

That?s not a description of an evil man. Even the worst of the worst
rashayim wouldn?t sacrifice their children to that. This isn?t a portrait
of a bad person, even the most evil of evil. This is a one dimensional
cartoon character that is not even reminiscent of a low-life evil human. A
human, that isn?t mentally damaged, wouldn?t do this.

Nor is this chesed gone bad. Even if he knew, by this time, that they were
malachim, they could have taken care of themselves. Young virgin girls
couldn?t.

Someone (a Rav) once tried to tell me that this was the halachically
preferable decision because giving men over to be raped is a much worse
to?eivah than a rape of a penuya. Those Lot was a tzadik.

If I am ever diagnosed with a brain tumor, it will be because that response
is in my head.

Can anyone help me to understand this?

Chaimbaruch Kaufman



-- 
*- "When life gives you lemons, shut up and eat your lemons."*
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On Wed, Nov 04, 2020 at 02:34:34PM -0600, Brent Kaufman via Avodah wrote:
> 2) Lot offers his daughters to be gang raped and killed by an unimaginable
> number of brutal animals rather than hand over his guests, whom he just
> met, to the same fate.

Actually, Seforno gives a realistic interpretation...

Lot didn't realize what kind of people his sons-in-law were. He thought
they merited being saved with him; instead they laugh when he suggests
fleeing, and thus end up punished along with the rest of Sodom.

At this point in the story, Lot still thought they shared his ideals, just
needing some prodding before being willing to take on a whole town. But he
took it for granted they would fight to defend their wives. They didn't.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                     Time flies...
http://www.aishdas.org/asp               ... but you're the pilot.
Author: Widen Your Tent                          - R' Zelig Pliskin
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF

On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 11:33:06PM -0500, Brent Kaufman via Avodah wrote:
> From: Alexander Seinfeld <seinf...@daasbooks.com>
>> Not only did Moshe have many names, few people called him "Moshe" in his
>> lifetime. (His father called him Avigdor, his mother called him Tovia,
>> Bnai Yisroel called him Sofer etc.)

(Then there's Yekusiel...)

> I have no reason to think that Moshe was called anything other than Musa.
> It was an Egyptian word (ie. The consonants m-s) meaning 'born from'. Hence
> Ramses was 'born from Ra'.

I think "Moshe" was more like the number of Koreans in the US named "Kim";
it's popular in their community because the name exists in both cultures.
It's not that the pasuq is saying "ki min hamayim meshisihu" was her
motive to the exclusion of calling him her son. Rather, she used the
name because it had meaning to her in both languages simultaneously;

> The people knew him by that name as part of the royal family. It's unknown
> whether Bnei Yisrael knew that he was one of them and the story behind his
> birth and being found by bad Paro....

Except that even as a newborn, he "looked Jewish" to Bas-Par'oh.
Moshe Rabbeinu had textbook Israelitish features and/or coloring,
not Egyptian ones. So it is likely everyone knew he was one of us the
same way.

>> You con?t ask about days of the week (in English) -- Rav Hirsch writes in
>> one of his essays how much it bothers him that people use idolatrous names
>> for the week days.

> I didn't ask about them because those names were not brought into the
> Torah world by a consensus of chachamim as the months were. Nisan, Iyar,
> Sivan are now the official Jewish names and are used in Halachik discourse.

But only Tammuz is idolatrous. As as is the meaning of the names Mordechai
and Esther.

And why doesn't R Hirsch discuss contemporary month names? Are Janus,
Mars, Maia, or Juno less pagan than Woden, Thor, Tiw or Frig? (Saturday
is named for Saturn via the planet, so I'll cut that one a little
more slack.)

Off-the-cuff, I am thinking it's the fact that he is in Germany that
gave the names of Teutonic gods a little more grouding in the surrounding
culture, and thus the name's origins less forgotten.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 Take time,
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   be exact,
Author: Widen Your Tent      unclutter the mind.
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF          - Rabbi Simcha Zissel Ziv, Alter of Kelm

On Wednesday, November 4, 2020, Micha Berger <mi...@aishdas.org> wrote:

> But he took it for granted they would fight to defend their wives. They
> didn't
>

The girls he offered were virgins. The sons-in-laws were married to
daughters, that aren?t mentioned, lived elsewhere and Lot had to go out to
speak to them. They were not there when Lot went out to offer his unmarried
daughters.

cbk


-- 
*- "When life gives you lemons, shut up and eat your lemons."*
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On Wed, Nov 04, 2020 at 06:12:36PM -0600, Brent Kaufman via Avodah wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 4, 2020, Micha Berger <mi...@aishdas.org> wrote:
> > But he took it for granted they would fight to defend their wives. They
> > didn't

> The girls he offered were virgins...

You are correct, I misrepresented the Seforno. He assumes the daughters
in question were engaged. And it's the fiances he was trying to rope in.

Here's the Seforno (19:8 d"h "otzi'ah nah eshein aleikhem"), I think
it's short enough for a transliteration to be readable:
    Chashav sheyaqumu loqechei venosav "veqam she'on" beineihem.

("Veqam shaon" appears to be lifted from Hoasheia 10:14, and is usally
translated there as something related to the sounds or tumult of war.)

The Seforno doesn't explain where he gets this from. Maybe making a point
about "asher lo yad'u ish" implies that they are not full penuyos, but...?


Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 What you get by achieving your goals
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   is not as important as
Author: Widen Your Tent      what you become by achieving your goals.
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF            - Henry David Thoreau

.
R' Alexander Seinfeld asked:
> Does this mitzvah apply to a father who has enough wealth that
> his child will never need to work?

I don't know what reasons Chazal gave to this principle, but I can see many
practical reasons why such a father should make sure that his kids have
some sort of job so that they don't need to rely on their inheritance. For
example:

- How can one be sure that the money will last?
- How can he be sure that the child won't just waste the money?
- What kind of role model will the grandchildren have?

I developed many thoughts on this topic years ago, but Warren Buffet
expressed it much better than I could. To him the perfect amount to leave
children is

> enough money so that they would feel they could do anything,
> but not so much that they could do nothing.

https://archive.fortune.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/1986/09/29/68098/index.htm

Akiva Miller
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