Avodah Mailing List

Volume 38: Number 74

Mon, 07 Sep 2020

• 1. Re: Can One Order a Package Knowing It May Arrive on Shabbos (Zev Sero)
• 2. Re: What to do in Elul (Akiva Miller)
• 3. Re: What to do in Elul (Micha Berger)
• 4. Re: Davening at home on Yamim Noraim (Micha Berger)
• 5. Re: Can One Order a Package Knowing It May Arrive on Shabbos (Micha Berger)
• 6. Avos - Shepherds (Alexander Seinfeld)
• 7. Can One Use a Public Grill? (Prof. L. Levine)
• 8. Pas Yisroel (Prof. L. Levine)
• 9. 10PM Slichot (Rich, Joel)

On 2/9/20 4:49 pm, Rich, Joel via Avodah wrote:
> But if it's next-day delivery and you place the order on Friday (or after
> hours Thursday) you know you are asking them to do melakhah on Shabbos.
> -------------------------------
> And if you say I want it by Sunday night and the clerk says OK -that's Saturday delivery and you say nothing?

That should be fine.  It's their decision, not yours.  You told them you 
don't mind if they deliver it on Sunday.

It's the same as dropping something off at the cleaners right before 
Shabbos and telling them you want it by 6 AM on Sunday.  Since they 
could work on it all night Motzei Shabbos, you're fine, even though you 
know they will choose not to.

-- 
Zev Sero            Wishing everyone a *healthy* and happy summer
z...@sero.name       Seek Jerusalem's peace; may all who love you prosper

.
R' Moshe Zeldman asked:
> If one should not say "starting YK I will never...", then how
> does that fit with the Rambam in Teshuva (1:1) where part of the
> vidui is saying "and I will never do X again"?
> It sounds difficult to read into the Rambam that he means "I'm
> still going to be doing X but I have a plan to eventually stop"

Yes, the Rambam does say that at the beginning of Perek 1. But Perek 2 is
all about less-than-ideal sorts of teshuva. I concede that I didn't notice
the Rambam explicitly mentioning this weaning as a legitimate
less-than-ideal form of teshuva. But still, it is hard for me to imagine
that he would invalidate someone who said, "I did it, and I should not have
done it, and I feel sorry that I did it, and in the future I will do it
less than I used to."

And even if the Rambam *would* say that such a person has *not* done
teshuva, remember the context in which this idea was suggested: a person
who has repeatedly found this particular aveira unusually difficult to
conquer. Imagine further, that this person succeeds in a slow elimination
of this aveira, and after many years - decades perhaps - he has finally
conquered it. Such a person would certainly be no less of a Baal Teshuva
than the one who the Rambam described in the middle section of halacha 2:1:
"Even if he didn't do teshuva until his elderly days, and when it was
impossible for his to do what he used to do, even though it's not an
excellent teshuva, it still helps him, and he is a Baal Teshuva."

Please note that this person described by the Rambam did not even begin
regretting his sins until he was too old to do them. That's NOT the case
we're discussing. We're discussing someone who still has to battle the
yetzer hara. I can't help but wonder if this person, who executed a long,
slow, but ultimately successful plan, might get the mitzva of Teshuva
retroactively, to the beginning of that plan, maybe even according to the
Rambam.

Akiva Miller
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On Thu, Sep 03, 2020 at 10:33:32AM +0300, Moshe Zeldman via Avodah wrote:
> If one should not say "starting YK I will never...", then how does that fit
> with the Rambam in Teshuva (1:1) where part of the vidui is saying "and I
> will never do X again"?

I'm going to shift topics a little from what the Rambam says should
be done to what experience (and 20th cent Mussar sefarim) has shown
does work.

Lots of diets I promised myself I would start right after the chagim
never happened. So, I don't think there is much commitment in "starting
YK I will never..."

Maybe we should be following the incremental approach... Promising now
to take steps that by Yom Kippur I would be up to not doing X again,
and by Chanukah not doing X-1, and by Pesach, X-2, and by next YK...

Again, not claiming you can read that into the Rambam. But it does
fit the Rambam's requirements for vidui while still having more chance
of success than expecitng to be able to permanently change habits and
character on a dime.

:-)BBii!
-Micha

--
Micha Berger                 The meaning of life is to find your gift.
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   The purpose of life
Author: Widen Your Tent      is to give it away.
-- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF -- Pablo Picasso

On Wed, Sep 02, 2020 at 08:45:46PM -0400, Akiva Miller via Avodah wrote:
> It is my opinion that merely shortening the duration does little or nothing
> to improve the quality. Fifteen minutes of rushed mumbling is no better
> than an hour of it, except that people will be less resentful of the time
> that's been taken from them.

Speaking specifically of "echad hamarbeh. ve'echad hamam'it..." and not
trying to fit more services into the same number of rooms in the same
morning or other pandemic issues...

The idea is usually invoked for those of us who abbreviate Pesuqei deZimra
in order to say fewer peraqim of Tehillim in the same time the minyan
is saying more of them. Not to save time, but to spend more thought and
similar time on fewer actions (in this case, speech).

BUT...

The past century has seen a HUGE shrinkage (sorry for the oxymoron)
in attention spans. So, the more likely alternative of 15 minutes of
rushed mumbeling may be better than an hour of mumbling while one's
mind wanders. For many people, even on Yamim Noraim. May even have a
net minus in the minimal kavanah of a rushed mumble.

:-)BBii!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 The fittingness of your matzos [for the seder]
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   isn't complete with being careful in the laws
Author: Widen Your Tent      of Passover. One must also be very careful in
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF    the laws of business.    - Rav Yisrael Salanter

On Wed, Sep 02, 2020 at 08:49:48PM +0000, Rich, Joel via Avodah wrote:
>> But if it's next-day delivery and you place the order on Friday (or after
>> hours Thursday) you know you are asking them to do melakhah on Shabbos.

> And if you say I want it by Sunday night and the clerk says OK -that's
> Saturday delivery and you say nothing?

Can it depend on who makes the decision? What if I ask one set of people
to deliver my package, but another set of people make it impossible for
them to get into the warehouse / vehicle on Sunday? And if I could guess
as much that even if they wanted to deliver on Sunday it's not really
in their power to do so?

:-)BBii!
-Micha

The Avos ? Forefathers - (and Moshe Rabbeinu and Dovid HaMelech and others)
were shepherds.
Did they eat sheep? The few times when eating from the flock is mentioned,
it seems to be goats (eg, Rivka feeding Yitzchak).



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From https://www.kosher.com/lifestyle/can-one-use-a-public-grill-1259

[https://www.kosher.com/resized/open_graph/s/h/shutterstock_442567648_banner.jpg]<;https://www.kosher.com/lifestyle/can-one-use-a-public-grill-1259>
Can One Use a Public Grill? | Lifestyle | Kosher.com<https://www.kosher.com/lifestyle/can-one-use-a-public-grill-1259>
Shailah of the Week by Rabbi Zvi Nussbaum Rabbinic Coordinator, Kosher
Hotline Administrator for the Orthodox Union Since a campground grill has
been used to cook non-kosher foods (non-kosher meats and fish...), it may
not be used unless it is properly kashered. The only way to kasher a gr...
www.kosher.com
Since a campground grill has been used to cook non-kosher foods (non-kosher
meats and fish...), it may not be used unless it is properly kashered. The
only way to kasher a grill top is with libun gamur (heating until the
entire surface of the grill top rack becomes red hot).	This can be
accomplished by submerging the surface of the grill into burning charcoal.
Even if the grill was used within the past 24 hours to cook non-kosher, and
even if the grill had not been cleaned, it may still be kashered in this
manner, since the intense heat will burn up all non-kosher residue and
taste. There is no need to tovel the grill (immerse the grill in a mikvah),
since it does not belong to you. It is owned by the park.


Instead of kashering the grill, an easier option is to bring along your own
grill top and a couple of bricks. If the non-kosher grill can be lifted out
of the way, the kosher grill may be put in its place, balanced on the
bricks. If you purchase a new grill top, it must be toveled before it is
used.



A third option is to double wrap your food with two layers of aluminum
foil. Once properly wrapped, they may be placed directly on the non-kosher
grill. In this case, it is better to clean the grill top first, or let the
coals burn off the grease, before placing the double-wrapped food on top.

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See

https://www.crcweb.org/Pas%20Yisroel%20article%20.pdf
Pas Yisroel during Aseres Y?mei Teshuvah<https://www.crcweb.org/Pas%20Yisroel%20article%20.pdf>
Pas Yisroel By: Rabbi Dovid Cohen Administrative Rabbinic Coordinator, cRc Background In the times of the Mishnah, and possible even earlier, Chazal
www.crcweb.org

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Anyone know why R' Moshe in O"C 2:105 didn't suggest pre-shacharit slichot
rather than 10Pm slichot as a stand in for chatzot (midnight) slichot on
the first night of slichot when there was a clear and present danger?
Kvct
Joel Rich

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