Avodah Mailing List

Volume 38: Number 26

Tue, 07 Apr 2020

• 1. Re: Pesach Shailos (Zev Sero)
• 2. Using Horseradish for Maror (Prof. Levine)
• 3. Re: Pesach Shailos (Akiva Miller)
• 4. Yaysay v'Yaychol (Akiva Miller)
• 5. Re: Pesach Shailos (Akiva Miller)
• 6. With shuls closed because of the pandemic, how will the firstborns hear a siyum on erev Pesach this year? (Prof. L. Levine)
• 7. Re: Using Horseradish for Maror (Prof. Levine)
• 8. Re: Using Horseradish for Maror (mgl...@gmail.com)
• 9. Can anything be done if one forgot to establish an Eruv Tavshilin before Yom Tov? (Prof. L. Levine)

On 3/4/20 11:41 am, Prof. L. Levine via Avodah wrote:
> 
> Hallel: Even those who usually say hallel in shul the first night of 
> Pesach should not do so this year. The whole point of that minhag is to 
> say hallel with the whole community. Rather one should proceed directly 
> after maariv to the seder.
> 

This is RHS's psak, based on RYBS's shita, but I don't think it's 
correct to say that "the whole point of that minhag is to say hallel 
with the whole community".  On the contrary, while that is a benefit, 
the *point* of the minhag seems to be in order to resolve the problem of 
the bracha.

There's a 3-way machlokes rishonim about saying a bracha on hallel at 
the seder.  Some hold one should say two brachos, some hold one bracha, 
and some hold no brachos.  Since safek brachos lehakel, we follow the 
third opinion; but if one of the first two is right then we're missing 
something important. Therefore the minhag arose to say it first in shul, 
so that we can say a bracha without any shailos.

The down side, however, is that we are not saying hallel the way Chazal 
instituted it, and then when we come to the seder and do it properly 
we've already been yotzei, so we never get to do the hallel shel mitzvah 
properly.  That is why not everyone has this minhag.

But for those that do have it, it would seem that this year is no 
different from any year, and even a yachid should say it with a bracha 
after davening, and then again without a bracha at the seder.

Unless one wants to argue that this is all very well, but what allows us 
to say the bracha on the hallel after maariv, which is done not as 
Chazal instituted it?  If we are not doing takanas Chazal properly, how 
do we have the right to say a bracha?  And the answer to *that* may be 
pirsumei nissa. Maybe that is RYBS's reasoning.  I don't know, but maybe.


-- 
Zev Sero            Wishing everyone a *healthy* and happy Pesach
z...@sero.name       Seek Jerusalem's peace; may all who love you prosper

From

https://jewishaction.com/religion/shabbat-holidays/passover/whats-truth-using-horseradish-maror/?utm_source=SilverpopMailing&;utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=shsh%20Tzav%205780%20(1)&utm_content=&spMailingID=32101090&spUserID=MjM3MTAxNzY3NzIS1&spJobID=1683116590&spReportId=MTY4MzExNjU5MAS2

Misconception: Horseradish (chrain) is the preferred item to use to 
fulfill the mitzvah of eating maror at the Seder.

Fact: Among Ashkenazim, horseradish is widely used for maror. While 
horseradish often appears as the translation for tamcha, one of the 
vegetables listed in the Mishnah that may be used for maror, the 
translation is probably inaccurate.1 Although horseradish is now 
considered acceptable for use at the Seder, according to many 
posekim, lettuce and endives are preferable.

Please see the above URL for more.

YL


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.
R' Yitzchok Levine posted From the YI of Midwood:

> Mashiv Haruch: If your minhag is to say Morid Hatal in the
> summer than you should begin saying Morid Hatal at Mussaf of
> the 1st day of Yom Tov. If your minhag is not to say Morid
> Hatal, then there is some question this year whether you
> should change over at Mussaf or at Mincha. R' Hershel Schachter
> has suggested that at Mussaf you should say Morid Hatal - even
> though this is not usually your minhag - and then transition
> to your usual summer minhag of not saying either Mashiv Haruach
> or Morid Hatal at mincha.

I saw Rav Schachter's teshuva, and he does indeed say exactly that. But I
suspect that this response is based on a presumption that under normal
circumstances, Tefilas Tal is said by the chazan prior to Musaf, and then
everyone's silent Musaf will be the same way as it will be for the rest of
the summer (with Morid Hatal or just going straight to Atah Gibor).

But if one's community (like mine) usually puts Tefilas Tal into the
Chazaras Hashatz of Musaf, then everyone's silent Musaf contains Mashiv
Haruach, just as it has all winter long. That's how it is done every year;
why not this year as well? If I can say Mashiv Haruach every other year on
the first Musaf of Pesach, why not this year?

Akiva Miller
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.
Kol dichfin, yaysay v'yaychol!
All who are hungry, come and eat!

Really??? This year too???

But we aren't merely refraining from inviting guests. We've gone so far as
to ask close family to stay away, even those we've often hosted in past
years.

Surely this question will be asked at many sedarim this year, and I found a
possible answer in one of my hagados. Before I share what that haggada
said, I'd like to point out that even in a normal year, it would be odd and
awkward to invite a guest to the meal after we've already said Kiddush.
Perhaps this paragraph is NOT the open-door invitation that it appears to
be.

The title of this all-Hebrew Haggadah is "Haggada Berurah", subtitled
"Seder Layl Pesach im piskei Mishah Berurah", and lots of other peirushim
too, authored by Hanan Minkowich in 5752. my edition is from 1995. He
offers the following comments, in the name of either the Masseh Hashem or
the Maaseh Nissim, (I can't really tell which; maybe the Maaseh Nissim got
it from the Maaseh Hashem.) Here's my very loose translation:

> Ha Lachma Anya is a sort of Kinah, which was established in Bavel as a
kiyum of "Im Lo Aaleh Es Yerushalayim Al Rosh Simchasi." When the Beis
Hamikdash stood, the Korban Pesach was eaten only by those who had signed
up for it, which does not apply today. So we are m'konen, we lament that
this is merely poor bread; anyone can come and eat it, for we have no
Korban Pesach to sign up for. And then, before continuing with the Story,
we have the consolation that "This year we are here, next year etc etc"

(Very similar thoughts are at the top of page 68 in the ArtScroll Haggadah,
but I didn't understand it well until I saw this version.)

Akiva Miller
Stay Home - Save Lives
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.
In my previous post, I asked about the psak of Rav Hershel Schachter, that
everyone should say Morid Hatal in their silent Musaf this coming
Wednesday, even those who do not usually say Morid Hatal in the summer. If
you want to see it yourself, it is at
https://www.yutorah.org/lectures/lecture.cfm/950285/rabbi-hershel-schachter/piskei-corona-9-hallel-on-pesach-night-and-tefillas-tal/

Here's how Rav Schachter's teshuva was explained by Rabbi Chaim Marcus of
Springfield NJ. (I don't think it is very different than Rav Shachter's own
explanation in that teshuva, but for some reason I think I understand this
version better.)

> Rabbi Soloveitchik maintained that in order to change the
> manner in which we describe Hashem from "One who brings the
> rain" to "One who brings the dew" we require the authorization
> of the community and therefore an individual may not undertake
> to make this change himself. However, since there is no existent
> tzibur davening together at this point each individual should
> recite Morid HaTal in their private Mussaf prayer on the first
> day of Pesach. When all of the individuals across the Jewish
> world recite Morid HaTal in their private Mussaf this will
> create a "resolution of the community" that will be effective
> in changing the Nusach of our seasonal description of Hashem.
> However, from Mincha of that day and onward, those who daven
> Nusach Ashkenaz will stop saying Morid HaTal and those who daven
> Nusach Sefard or Nusach HaGra will continue to say it, each one
> according to their custom.

My question concerns the idea that
> we require the authorization of the community and therefore
> an individual may not undertake to make this change himself.

This is not a problem for Tal Umatar.
This is not a problem for Yaaleh V'yavo.
It's not even a problem for HaMelech HaKadosh.

Why does THIS change require the authorization of the community, twice a
year, every single year? (I presume similar rules would apply to Tefilas
Geshem.) Why isn't it enough that Chazal selected a particular day for
making this change?

A related question:

As presented by Rav Schachter, this is all based on the views of Rav
Soloveitchik. How are the non-YU communities dealing with this question?

In many shuls, just before the silent Musaf, the gabbai announces "Morid
Hatal!", and the tzibur then switches immediately to say the Summer Nusach.
Do these shuls hold that "authorization of the community" is not needed, so
they can say Morid Hatal this year as usual?

I am particularly concerned about Nusach Ashkenaz shuls, where Morid Hatal
is never said except by the Chazan in the Chazaras Hashatz on Pesach 1.
Because there was no announcement, those people continue to say Mashiv
Haruach even in the silent musaf on Pesach 1. What are those shuls telling
people to do this year, if their rabbis are not from YU? What other views
are there?

Akiva Miller
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I have seen information from rabbonim saying that no one should fast during these troubled times.

From today's OU Kosher Halacha Yomis


A. It customary for a bechor (firstborn) to fast erev Pesach to commemorate
the miracle that the Jewish firstborn did not perish during the final
plague of Makas Bichoros. However, the bechor is not required to fast if he
attends a siyum. It has been common practice to have a siyum available in
shul so that the firstborn of the congregation can participate (M.B. O.C
470.10). What should be done this year, when shuls have tragically closed
their doors ?

Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach maintains that in extenuating circumstances one
can listen to the siyum on the phone. Although most poskim do not allow
hearing Havdalah or Kiddush on the phone because they are hearing a
simulated sound and not the person?s actual voice, nonetheless a siyum is
different. Presumably, this is because participation in the siyum cancels
the fast because of the simcha associated with the event. One can share in
the celebration by listening on the phone as well (Ma?adanei Shlomo).

When a siyum is in shul, if a bechor did not hear the siyum but
participated in the seuda following the siyum, some rule that he may not
break his fast (Harav Elyashiv, Siddur Pesach K?hilchaso page 168). Others
are more lenient (Teshuvos v?Hanhagos 1:300 quoting Harav Y.Y. Kanievsky)
because one shares the simcha even by eating at the seuda. Reb Moshe
Feinstein is also lenient (Moadei Yeshurun P.132 ).

In the reverse case where one hears the siyum but does not partake in the
seuda, Harav Elyashiv (ibid) and Teshuvos Devar Yehoshua 2:81) consider the
fast terminated. On the other hand the Minchas Yitzchok (9.45 ) rules that
a minimum of 2 fluid ounces of food or drink need to be consumed to be
considered that he participated in the siyum.

In light of the conflicting opinions cited above, it is best to hear the siyum, and then eat something substantial afterwords at the seuda.



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At 10:59 PM 4/5/2020, mgl...@gmail.com wrote:
>R? YL:
>Fact: Among Ashkenazim, horseradish is widely 
>used for maror. While horseradish often appears 
>as the translation for tamcha, one of the 
>vegetables listed in the Mishnah that may be 
>used for maror, the translation is probably 
>inaccurate.1 Although horseradish is now 
>considered acceptable for use at the Seder, 
>according to many posekim, lettuce and endives are preferable.
>-----
>
>Not to disagree with R? YL, but there could be 
>another reason to prefer horseradish ? they?re 
>generally bug free, unlike lettuce/endives. 
>Indeed, when I went to the link that R? YL 
>included, R? AZ does mention that, almost as an 
>afterthought, all the way at the end of the article.
>
>KT,
>MYG
>

Today one can purchase Romaine lettuce that is 
bug free.  Both Bodek and Postiv sell this.

YL
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R' YL:
Fact: Among Ashkenazim, horseradish is widely used for maror. While
horseradish often appears as the translation for tamcha, one of the
vegetables listed in the Mishnah that may be used for maror, the translation
is probably inaccurate.1 Although horseradish is now considered acceptable
for use at the Seder, according to many posekim, lettuce and endives are
preferable.
----- 

 

Not to disagree with R' YL, but there could be another reason to prefer
horseradish - they're generally bug free, unlike lettuce/endives. Indeed,
when I went to the link that R' YL included, R' AZ does mention that, almost
as an afterthought, all the way at the end of the article.

 

KT,

MYG

 

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From today's OU Kosher Halacha Yomis


A. If one forgot to make an eruv before a Yom Tov (with exception of Rosh
Hashana) that began on Thursday (as is the case with Pesach this year), it
is possible to make an eruv on the first day of Yom Tov (Thursday). To do
so, one should say the following: ?If today (Thursday) is Yom Tov (and as
such tomorrow {Friday} is a weekday), the eruv is unnecessary (because one
may cook for Shabbos on a Friday which is a weekday). However, if today
(Thursday) is a weekday and tomorrow is Yom Tov, this will be my eruv,
which will allow preparation on Friday/Yom Tov for Shabbos. (Shulchan Oruch
527:22). Though others disagree, the Oruch Hashulchan (OC 527:36)
recommends not making a bracha on this unique eruv because of the
uncertainty if it is necessary. (The basis for making a conditional eruv is
that halacha treats each of the first two days of Yom Tov as if they had an
uncertain status). One then continues with the concluding text of the eruv.
(There is no need to do anything additional on 
 Friday because if Thursday was a weekday, he already made an eruv, and if Friday is a weekday, he does not need an eruv.)

An eruv cannot be made on the first day of Yom Tov which falls on Friday.

If one forgot to do the above process on Thursday, or if Yom Tov began on
Friday, one may rely on the Eruv Tavshilin performed by the rabbi of the
city, as it is customary for him to include his entire community in his
eruv. One may rely on this only if the Eruv Tavshilin was not forgotten due
to negligence (Shulchan Oruch ibid). In addition, one cannot rely on the
rabbi?s eruv for two consecutive Yomim Tovim (MB 527:22). Kaf Hachaim
527:48 suggests that this limitation applies only if the two Yomim Tovim
where consecutive. After forgetting to make an eruv two consecutive times,
the Chayei Adam (Klal 102:7) questions whether one may rely again on the
rabbi?s eruv in the future.

Another option is to have someone who made an Eruv Tavshilin cook for the
one who forgot. In this case, ownership of the ingredients must be
transferred to the one who is allowed to cook. This person may then proceed
to cook even in the home of the person who did not make an Eruv Tavshilin
(Shulchan Aruch OC 527:20).

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