Volume 35: Number 87
Wed, 28 Jun 2017
Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
Message: 1
From: elazar teitz
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2017 16:10:45 +0300
Subject: Re: [Avodah] Sheva Berakhos without the couple
"Does this mean that if a man needs to leave a wedding early, he should really
invest the effort to find 9 others and not just 3, not only because zimun
requires trying, but also because the 10 of you would be
passing up a chance to bentch the chasan & kallah!"
Actually, even without regard for Sheva B'rochos, the din of zimmun
requires that one not who has eaten with a minyan not bentsch with less
than a minyan. There is mention on OC 193:1 that only where there would be
difficulty in a minyan hearing, thus necessitating the bentsching calling
attention to itself and thus offending the host, that it can be done in
groups of three; it would seem to be a kal vachomer that gathering ten and
saying Sheva B'rochos would be even more noticeable, and thus more
hurtful. It would also seem that if one person has to leave, he should not
request two others to join him in zimmun unless they, too, must leave
early, since otherwise they should not violate their obligation of proper
zimmun so that the one leaving have an incomplete fulfillment of his
obligation.
EMT
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Message: 2
From: Akiva Miller
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2017 01:01:36 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] Support for Maaseh Satan
.
R' Eli Turkel wrote:
> R Yoel bin Nun has given this argument for many years. He
> understands DL and Satmar but claims that the Agudah position
> basically denies that G-d affects history. We now have a
> state for some 70 years that appears to be very successful
> but is against the wishes of G-d.
Could you please explain to me what the Agudah position is, and *how*
it denies that G-d affects history?
Personally, I do not know what the Agudah position is about the
Medinah. I'm not convinced that they even *have* a position. Over the
years, I have gotten the impression that they have deliberately
avoided publicizing their views, because at this point in history it
is so difficult to be sure of such things. You yourself concede that
the state "APPEARS" to be successful. Who knows?
Akiva Miller
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Message: 3
From: Rabbi Meir G. Rabi
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2017 15:21:57 +1000
Subject: [Avodah] perhaps not such a well-known RaMBaM, but ...
in his intro to Sefer Shemos
Matan Torah was just a device employed to re-attain the standards that had
already been accomplished by the Avos
when they came to Mount Sinai - made the Mishkan and HaShem returned His
Shechinah amongst them, that is when they restored their status to be like
their Avos .... and that is when they were deemed to be redeemed [from the
servitude in Egypt]
Best,
Meir G. Rabi
0423 207 837
+61 423 207 837
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Message: 4
From: Rabbi Meir G. Rabi
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2017 15:42:05 +1000
Subject: [Avodah] redemption - The GoEl HaDam
the family can come to terms with the killer.
when circumstances are such that the killer is deemed too negligent, he can
not seek refuge in the Ir Miklat and they MUST come to terms, of the
aggressor lives his life in constant fear of being executed.
Lo SikChu Kofer LeNefesh RoTzeach Hu - is a warning [to BDin] NOT to take
redemption money, NOT to avert the death penalty, NOT to come to terms; but
in other circumstances it seems we ought to seek strategies to come to
terms.
That may include but is not limited to offering money - it probably has
more to do with Teshuvah, which is the need to persuade the victims that
the regret is sincere, which is why BDin cannot provide a ruling, it can
only be negotiated through direct communications, and finding friends of
the victims and persuading them of the sincerity and getting THEM to
intercede - this is the Shurah that is described in Halacha and RaMBaM.
Why are they defined as the GoEl the redeemer? It is a redemption for the
society - an evil [negligence of this magnitude, especially when Chazal
indicate it is a reflection of other misdeeds, is an evil] of this
magnitude leaves an impression on the collective mind of the community, the
Eidah, those whose lives is a testimony to HKBH, and if it goes unpunished,
the community is tainted. So the community requires redemption.
This too feeds into the coming to terms with the aggressor - it is not only
the friends of the victim who are impressing upon their traumatised
consciousness the need to forgive to accept that the aggressor truly
regrets [and that the victim is also as Chazal say, a contributor to his
untimely own end] but the community is a sort of spectator to these
negotiations and the aggressors feel a need to be accepted by the community
and not be seen as being too harsh and vengeful or rapacious in their
demands for compensation.
This is a very redeeming experience for everyone
Best,
Meir G. Rabi
0423 207 837
+61 423 207 837
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Message: 5
From: Simi Peters
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2017 20:10:28 +0300
Subject: [Avodah] most famous ramban
First Ramban in Yayera-polemic with the Moreh Nevukhim. After that,
'Kedoshim tihiyu', (which many people are horrified by or completely
misunderstand and yes, the Ramban was an ascetic and makes a brilliant case
for asceticism) but we could probably have a whole lot of fun on this list
making a list of Rambans that everyone should know. In fact, we may
actually have done this already.
Kol tuv,
Simi Peters
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Message: 6
From: Simi Peters
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2017 20:05:14 +0300
Subject: [Avodah] first greeting from God
I'd be thrilled to hear: "It's okay-don't worry about it" but I'm not
counting on it.
Kol tuv,
Simi Peters
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Message: 7
From: Micha Berger
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2017 10:06:43 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] Sheva Berakhos without the couple
On Sun, Jun 25, 2017 at 04:10:45PM +0300, elazar teitz via Avodah wrote:
: hurtful. It would also seem that if one person has to leave, he should not
: request two others to join him in zimmun unless they, too, must leave
: early, since otherwise they should not violate their obligation of proper
: zimmun so that the one leaving have an incomplete fulfillment of his
: obligation.
OTOH, if they have an obligation to bless the chasan and kalah,
perhaps the threshold for "must leave early" has to be raised.
After all, there are cases of need where we do break a zimmun,
but we would never (e.g.) walk out on a beris milah over the same
motivation. "Need" is a relative term.
Tir'u baTov!
-Micha
--
Micha Berger A wise man is careful during the Purim banquet
mi...@aishdas.org about things most people don't watch even on
http://www.aishdas.org Yom Kippur.
Fax: (270) 514-1507 - Rav Yisrael Salanter
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Message: 8
From: Micha Berger
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2017 12:15:39 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] 10 tribes -- exile without redemption
On this thread, did any of us mention birkhas ge'ulah? "Ufdeih
khin'umekha Yehudah veYisrael" expresses our expectation that Hashem
will redeem both malkhios. Or is there another way to talk separately
about Yehudah and Yisrael.
So I would think the siddur pasqens, and this is in all traditional
nusachos, that the 1- tribes are not permanently lost.
I am assuming since this is a birkhas shevakh rather than baqashah,
this is an expectation "you will surely redeem", and not a request.
Requesting the impossible is a tefillas shav. So...
As a baqashah, the berakhah would only prove they could be redeemed;
as shevakh (which is, I believe, the correct category), the berakhah is
expressing our faith they will be redeemed.
Tir'u baTov!
-Micha
--
Micha Berger A wise man is careful during the Purim banquet
mi...@aishdas.org about things most people don't watch even on
http://www.aishdas.org Yom Kippur.
Fax: (270) 514-1507 - Rav Yisrael Salanter
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Message: 9
From: Micha Berger
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2017 17:51:20 -0400
Subject: [Avodah] Talmud Torah vs Mitzvah Maasis
Another data point... AhS EhE 65:4 says "mevatlin talmud Torah lehakhnasas
kalah lechupah", even toraso umenaso. But limited to someone who sees them
going to the chupah. If you just know of a wedding in town, you aren't
obligated to stop learning to go.
For sources, the end of the se'if cites
1- Semachos 11[:7], which RYME summarizes as "dema'aseh qodem leTT". The
mishnah itselces cites both Aba Sha'ul and Rabbi Yehudah, that "hama'aseh
qodem letalmud". (Rabbi Yehudah would enjoin his talmidim to participate
as well.)
2- Qiddushin 40b which discusses whether talmud gadol or ma'aseh gadol.
R' Tarfon: ma'aseh
R' Aqiva: talmud
"Ne'enu kulam ve'amru: talmud gadol" because talmud leads to ma'aseh. (And
so on, discussion elided.)
This gemara concludes that talmud is greater.
3- And for exaplanation of how to resolve Semachos vs Qiddushin, he
points you to Tosafos BQ 17[a] "veha'amar".
The gemara there says "gadol limud Torah shemeivi liydei ma'adeh",
much like Qiddushim.
Rashi says "alma ma'aseh adif". R' Tam asks on Rashi, from the gemara
in Qiddushin. Tosafos then explains the gemara's distinction between
learning and teaching in two opposite ways:
1- It's teaching which has priority, because it brings the masses to
action. Whereas one's own learning or acting are one person either way.
2- It's learning, which tells one how to act, that has priority. But
since teaching doesn't inform the teacher how to fulfilll a mitzvah,
it does not.
Tir'u baTov!
-Micha
--
Micha Berger A pious Jew is not one who worries about his fellow
mi...@aishdas.org man's soul and his own stomach; a pious Jew worries
http://www.aishdas.org about his own soul and his fellow man's stomach.
Fax: (270) 514-1507 - Rav Yisrael Salanter
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Message: 10
From: Cantor Wolberg
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2017 11:22:59 -0400
Subject: [Avodah] Chukas
Rashi picks up on the juxtaposition of the consecutive sentences where
we first read of Miriam?s death and immediately following ? of the lack of
water. This would indicate some connection which Rashi points out that
the existence of the water was on the z?chus of Miriam. Nonetheless, the
question of the Sifse Chakhamim is also quite valid. Weren?t Aaron and
Moses worthy enough to warrant the existence of the water on their z?chus?
As a chok has no rational explanation, so, too, there is no logical explanation
as to why as long as Miriam was there, offering her inspired leadership, the
waters of the be?er, the wells of Torah, flowed ceaselessly and with her death,
the waters stopped; whereas, the greatness of Aaron and Moses paled in
comparison. This shows the error of those who downplay the role of women
in Judaism. Remember, it?s the mother who determines the child?s religion and
it?s the mother who plays a major role in her children?s development.
The dedication and devotion of the exemplary Jewish mother are a shining example
to all who would seek idealism in a Jewish woman.
"The Lord gave more wit to women than to men."
Talmud - Niddah
??And the Lord God built the rib which teaches that the Holy One, blessed be He,
endowed the woman with more understanding than the man.?
Niddah 45b
?A beautiful wife enlarges a man?s spirit.?
[adapted from] Talmud, Berakhot 57b
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