Avodah Mailing List

Volume 34: Number 132

Wed, 26 Oct 2016

• 1. Re: Waterproof S'chach? Really? (Micha Berger)
• 2. Re: Shva na (Zev Sero)
• 3. Re: Waterproof S'chach? Really? (Zev Sero)
• 4. Re: a quantum of time (elazar teitz)
• 5. Re: a quantum of time (Micha Berger)
• 6. Re: Waterproof S'chach? Really? (Ben Waxman)
• 7. Hallel with a recorded singer in the background (Ben Waxman)
• 8. waterproof schach (Eli Turkel)
• 9. Re: Waterproof S'chach? Really? (Akiva Miller)
• 10. Re: Hallel with a recorded singer in the background (Zev Sero)
• 11. Birchas Ha Motzi (Professor L. Levine)
• 12. piskei RAL (Eli Turkel)

On Fri, Oct 21, 2016 at 09:05:21AM -0400, Micha Berger wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 21, 2016 at 06:27:42AM -0400, Akiva Miller via Avodah wrote:
>: R' Micha Berger cited the DailyHalacha.com:
>:> Several other Poskim, however, disagreed. The Shebet Ha'levi
>:> (Rav Shemuel Wosner, contemporary) wrote that we should not be
>:> trying to "outsmart" Halacha by devising creative strategies,
>:> and we should use the same kind of Sechach that Jews have been
>:> using for generations...

>: I don't understand. Why does sentimentality trump a d'Oraisa?
> ...

> We have to know more about the idea DailyHalacha.com described as
> "outsmarting halachah"....

I thought about this repeatedly during Shabbos.

What qualifies as "outsmarting halakhah" in RSW's view? There could be
a general machloqes lying here. Does RSW have problems with Zomet-eques
angineering solutions to hilkhos Shabbos that RYSE doesn't?

(And what is heter isqa or mechiras chameitz?)

Gut Voch!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             If you're going through hell
mi...@aishdas.org        keep going.
http://www.aishdas.org                   - Winston Churchill
Fax: (270) 514-1507

On 21/10/16 18:12, saul newman via Avodah wrote:
> Davening on yomkippur with tehillas hashem and artscroll open
> simultaneously on the Binah , it seems that there are differences in the
> designation of shva na , in that there were a lot more of these in the L
> tradition( or else the mark designated something else.  ).  Is there
> variations across communities in the tefilot as to which Shvas are na
> versus nach?

Tehilas Hashem follows the shita of 18th-century grammarian R Zalman 
Hanau.  I don't know that this is any kind of Lubavitcher tradition; I 
think it more likely that it was simply a matter of the editor of the 
first American edition (who later became LR) looking for a 
similar-enough siddur to cut and paste for photo offset, and happening 
to choose one that had followed this shita.  Since in practise most 
Lubavitchers are not makpid on correct pronunciation in davening (as 
opposed to laining), I wonder if he even noticed this detail.

(Many decades later he mentioned publicly that the siddur had been 
prepared in a hurry because there was a shortage of siddurim at the 
time, and he had not been able to put as much care into it as he would 
have liked.)

In the '90s there was an edition published in Kfar Chabad, in which the 
shva nas were marked according to the rules taught by R Mottel 
Shusterman a"h, who for many years was the bal korei in 770, and whom 
the LR had instructed to teach dikduk at Oholei Torah.  It was met with 
a negative reception, and I don't know whether it has been reprinted.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon_Hanau

PS: I wrote "the first American edition" because Lubavitch published two 
editions of Tehilas Hashem in Rostov during WW1, one in Nusach Lubavitch 
and one in Nusach Ashkenaz, for the benefit of the many NA-davening 
refugees who needed siddurim.


-- 
Zev Sero                Wishing everyone a good aquittal
z...@sero.name

On 21/10/16 06:27, Akiva Miller via Avodah wrote:
>
> If a posek holds that s'chach *must* allow some rain in, and that if the
> s'chach keeps the rain out then it is pasul (as R' Zev Sero cited Rabenu
> Tam) - that is a position I can understand. But the two cited here do
> not seem to hold that way; they say to use "traditional s'chach", but
> they don't passel this new one.
>
> It seems to me that if one has a choice between (a) a traditional sukkah
> that will probably force me to eat in the house part of the time, and
> (b) a non-traditional sukkah that is kosher and which I can use all week
> long, it's really no contest.

In fact that is one of Rabbenu Tam's arguments.  If it were possible to 
build a sukkah that keeps out the rain, then what heter could anyone 
have to leave the sukkah just because it's raining?  Throw some more 
schach on the roof and sit!  Who asked you to build such a flimsy sukkah 
in the first place?  The fact that we are not required to do this shows 
that it would passel the sukkah.

BTW, RT had a brother-in-law called R Shimon who built a rain-proof 
sukkah, and RT passeled it.  I don't know who this R Shimon was, though 
I wonder whether it's a typo for Shimshon, since we know that his wife 
Miriam was the sister of R Shimshon ben Yosef hazaken of Falaise, the 
grandfather of the Ritzba and the Rashba of Sens.

-- 
Zev Sero                Wishing everyone a good aquittal
z...@sero.name

      The g'mara states that if a person thought a relative had died and
tore k'ria, and then the relative died, he has fufilled his obligation if
the death takes place toch k'dei dibbur of the k'ria.  This would seem to
indicate that TKD is not a question of undoing, but rather of simultaneity.

EMT
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On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 11:30:31PM -0400, elazar teitz via Avodah wrote:
: The g'mara states that if a person thought a relative had died and
: tore k'ria, and then the relative died, he has fufilled his obligation if
: the death takes place toch k'dei dibbur of the k'ria.  This would seem to
: indicate that TKD is not a question of undoing, but rather of simultaneity.

Okay, so then why does sequence matter when it comes to an an amein
chatufah that was within TKD, but not WRT qeri'ah vs petirah?

In both cases, the response precedes what is supposed to be what we're
responding to.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

A few weeks ago I heard a talk where the cited the Ohr Tzarua. People 
would (dafka) have a leech treatment during Sukkot. The treatment left 
them weak and therefore they were patur from sleeping in the Sukka. He 
gave this as an example of "rounding a corner" and something which 
should be avoided.


Ben

On 10/23/2016 2:11 AM, Micha Berger via Avodah wrote:
>> >We have to know more about the idea DailyHalacha.com described as
>> >"outsmarting halachah"....
> I thought about this repeatedly during Shabbos.

Would there be any issues involved in some who is praying along to play 
a recording of Rav Shlomo Carlebach (as an example) singing Hallel while 
he is reciting his Hallel?

Ben

[Email #1, in ewply to R' Akica Miller:]

> To me it sounds more like an ill person who insists on *eating* on Yom
> Kippur, rather than taking advantage of some advance in medical
> technology that would allow him to fast, on the grounds that his father
> and grandfather did without such measures and simply ate when they had to.

There is no requirement to use advanced technology so that one can fast
on YK.
Of course it would depend on the nature of the technology. Certainly
anything invasive is not required.

[Email #2, in reply to Zev:]
> To me it sounds more like an ill person who insists on *eating* on
> Yom Kippur, rather than taking advantage of some advance in medical
> technology that would allow him to fast, on the grounds that his father
> and grandfather did without such measures and simply ate when they
> had to.>>

As a generality I would take all pskei halacha from the internet that are
posted on avodah with a grain a salt. These are opinions are individual
rabbis and there are frequently other opinions.

As am example we have had discussions of non-Israeli keeping 2 days of
yomtov when visiting Israel.
I have numerous freinds from the US who keep one day in Israel on grounds
that they own an apartment, come for all 3 regalim etc. Many rabbis
allow stidents studying in Israel to keep one day. Outside of Jerusalem
it can be very difficult to keep a second day.

Similarly in the opposite case I am aware of opinions that allow Israelis
to do work in private on the second day of yom tov.

In both cases many rabbis are machmir. So finding a machmir opinion on
the web is not a psak for every individual. Even more so for newer cases
like carrying a key on yomtov when one has a keyless lock available at
home I would guess that there are various opinions by modern poskim.

-- 
Eli Turkel

R' Zev Sero wrote:

> PS My LOR pointed out that this should be posul even according to
> the Rosh, because the half-pipes in the bottom layer, which were
> sawn in half *for the purpose* of inserting the half-pipes of the
> top layer, are klei kibul and thus mekabel tum'ah.

I had always thought that the halacha made a distinction between two
different kinds of ladders: If the sides of the ladder have depressions
made into them, and the rungs are stuck into those depressions, then the
depressions are considered Beis Kibul (a container) and so the ladder is
mekabel tumah and pasul as s'chach. But if the sides have holes that go all
the way from one side to the other, and that's where the rungs are put,
then no part of the ladder is a container, even thouse the sides DO contain
the rungs, and it may be used as s'chach.

If I am correct on that, Beis Kibul is defined by being able to contain
*liquids*, and has nothing to do with usefulness, and a half-pipe is kosher
s'chach just like the second type of ladder.

Unfortunately, this distinction ought to made by someone on Orach Chaim
629:7, and I don't see it. Is it there and I don't see it, or am I mistaken?

(I do see that the end of MB 629:23 mentions a *third* type of ladder,
where the rungs are not inserted into any sort of holes at all, but are
nailed to the outside of the rails. But that does not help to clarify the
case of the half-pipes.)

Akiva Miller
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On 23/10/16 04:19, Ben Waxman via Avodah wrote:
> Would there be any issues involved in some who is praying along to play
> a recording of Rav Shlomo Carlebach (as an example) singing Hallel while
> he is reciting his Hallel?

I can't see why there would be any problem, though personally this 
recording is more my style: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Pwe9-oiF2Y :-)

-- 
Zev Sero                Wishing everyone a good aquittal
z...@sero.name

From a recent Daf Hayomi B'Halacha

http://www.dafhalacha.com/daily-emails-2/


Reciting hamotzi as a group
When a small group of people join for a meal, it is proper for one person
to recite birkas hamotzi for all of them. This falls under the general rule
of b'rov am hadras melech - "the glory of the King is in the multitudes."
The pause while waiting for everyone to wash is not considered an
interruption between the washing and the beracha because it is necessary
for the mitzva. The most prestigious member of the group should recite the
blessing. The poskim discuss whether the person reciting the blessing
should wash first or last (so that he should not have to endure a long
pause between washing and the beracha).
(?"? ?-?; ??????? ??????? ????, 9 (??????? ?????))


Reciting hamotzi as individuals
If a large group joins for a meal, it is preferable -- when possible -- for
each one to recite his own hamotzi right after he washes, since it is
likely that the people who were among the first to wash will lose focus or
talk during the long wait. Additionally, one should not wait more than the
span it takes to walk twenty-two amos between washing and reciting hamotzi.
The poskim agree that in a situation where each person will recite his own
beracha, the most prestigious in the group washes first.
(?"? ?; ??????? ??????? ????, 10)


_______________________________________________________________


Unfortunately,  no guidelines are given regarding how many people constitute a small group and how many a large group.


On Shabbos I am accustomed to make Ha Motzi for all at the table, because of the requirement for Lechem Mishna,  but I do not do this during the week.  YL



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The most recent edition of the Zohar magazine has several articles
dedicated to RAL.
One article is by R Shmuel David (chief rabbi of Afula) containing oral
psakim to him by RAL
Below are several examples

He stresses that RAL did not consider himself a posek and in the yeshiva R
Amital was the posek. Though RAL was baki in Bacli, Yerushalmi and Rishonim
(including relatively less studied ones as Raaviyah etc)  he claimed that
he no mesorah from his rebbeim for psak even though he knew by heart every
Schach in YD and CM..

In general when talmidim came to him with questions he would present both
sides of the psak and say it was up to the talmid to study more and come to
his own conclusion.

Some samples

RAL wore tzizit out only partially - he said that neither of his rebbeim
wore tzizit out but today everyone does so that is his compromise.
He was convinced by the arguments for techelet but again his rebbeim
didnt use them and so he didn't either.
He was very insistent on dipping bread in salt
safek brachot le-hakel applies only if one is in doubt. However if one
studies the issue and comes to a conclusion it is not a safek.
If a (Jewish) driver asks directions on shabbat RYBS held one should answer
to limit the driver from extra driving. RAL preferred to avoid causing
explicit chilul shabbat

RAL (together with RYBS) was very insistent that one who shaves regularly
should shave during chol hamoed and the sfirah. He quoted RMF that allowed
it but said a "yereih shamayon" should not shave. RAL said he didn't
understand on the contrary a yirei shamayim should be careful of "zilzul"
of the chag. For the 3 weeks he originally held the same but later stopped
shaving even erev shabbat
On Chanukah the candles should last until the last passerbys have gone home
(what about times square?)
On Purim one can eat cake after the fast before the megillah if fasting
would cost loss of concentration.
A newborn with a heart condition but the doctor says that a brit milah
would be no danger. RAL paskened to nevertheless push off the milah until
after the operation.
He brought down that RYBS would use "kavod habriyot" as a reason for heter
but would always "wrap" it other reasons for heter.
Campaigns for bone marrow that would include giving to nonJews - RAL answer
was that Avraham avinu would do it so why not everyone
When driving he would pick up even if they were not Jewish. He was once
asked by several girls for a ride back home and he hesitated about one man
with many girls but it is on public roads. He decided that
gemilat chassadim overrode his doubts.
RAL said there was no problem with women wearing pants as long as they were
not tight
He allowed a young couple to use contraception for a short time while they
finish their studies. He said that was preferable to pushing off the
marriage.
Originally he thought one should not leave EY to visit Jewish communities
abroad,  He later saw that poskim allowed travel abroad for a livelihood
even when it was beyond bare necessities. So he decided that visiting
Jewish communities is as much of a reason as going for luxuries.

--------------------------------------
Another interesting article was on a shiur RAL gave numerous times in the
Gush on "Talmudic methodology" . The author noted that though RAL used and
extended Brisker methods when he did pasken it was not on that basis but on
previous psak including mishna berura


-- 
Eli Turkel
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