Avodah Mailing List

Volume 34: Number 22

Fri, 26 Feb 2016

• 1. Shaming a gett refuser (Ben Waxman)
• 2. ad blockers (saul newman)
• 3. Re: ad blockers (Allan Engel)
• 4. Halacha Yomis - Hafrashas challah, liquid batter (Prof. Levine)
• 5. dealing with trans-gender (saul newman)
• 6. Re: dealing with trans-gender (Micha Berger)
• 7. Re: Halacha Yomis - Hafrashas challah, liquid batter (Micha Berger)
• 8. Re: Halacha Yomis - Hafrashas challah, liquid batter (Micha Berger)
• 9. Re: dealing with trans-gender (Zev Sero)
• 10. Re: dealing with trans-gender (Zev Sero)
• 11. Re: dealing with trans-gender (Lisa Liel)
• 12. Re: dealing with trans-gender (Micha Berger)
• 13. Re: dealing with trans-gender (Zev Sero)
• 14. ayin hara (Rich, Joel)
• 15. Re: dealing with trans-gender (Zev Sero)

[Reposted from Areivim. RCN's position on kofin oso vs. gett me'usah belongs
here. -micha]

My translation of a piece Rav Chayim Navon wrote about the Rabbinate's
decision to allow public shaming of a gett refuser:

    The shaming of gett refuser Oded Gaz is justified. Why? Because
    this is what the beit din ruled to do. Once, when kehilot were
    kehilot, this what a cherem was: effective social excommunication. A
    beit din would use this sparingly, against various types of evil
    people. The weakening of communities, along with social mobility
    weakened this weapon.
    Because these developments, anyone put in cherem simply ignores the
    beit din, or at most, moved somewhere else and started anew. At most,
    social media is rehabilitating excommunication's effectiveness,
    bringing it back to what it should be. Lynching someone on the web
    simply because he's different, or because I'm suspicious of him,
    or I don't like his opinion, or he said something wrong (faux pas),
    that's disgusting. It is something completely different to cooperate
    with the opinion of the beit din, that checked, investigated, looked
    into (a case), until it reached the point that this step was needed.

The original:
https://www.facebook.com/haravnavon/posts/981916848553635?fref=nf&
;pnref=story

http://www.kikar.co.il/193610.html#

while trying to read a page on a haredi website,  i came upon a page that
tells me that an ad blocker is an issur  d'oraita.     few questions:

1-- whose psak is that ?
2--  on what basis can one claim that a non subscription webpage involves
gneiva?   if they wanted money to see their content, they could do what
NYTimes and Haaretz does, but then they would lose 90% of the readership,
at least.

3-- if there is an additional fee generated to the website if i click on
the ad ,  would they claim that lechatchila i should be clicking on
everything , or is that shev v'al taaseh?
4-- in the parallel case of radio/TV commercials , is it muttar to turn
down the volume/leave the room?  i assume they would argue this is
different since  they get paid whether i hear the ad or not
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Inventing new Issurei D'orayta is an Issur D'orayta.


On 24 February 2016 at 17:26, saul newman via Avodah <
avo...@lists.aishdas.org> wrote:

> http://www.kikar.co.il/193610.html#
>
> while trying to read a page on a haredi website,  i came upon a page that
> tells me that an ad blocker is an issur  d'oraita.
>
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Do liquid batters such as cake batters require hafrashas challah?

OU Kosher


OU Kosher Halacha Yomis
This column is dedicated in memory of:
Rav Chaim Yisroel Belsky, zt'l
Senior OU Kosher Halachic Consultant (1987-2016)
Q. Do liquid batters such as cake batters require hafrashas challah?

Shulchan Aruch (Yoreh De'ah 329:2) writes that liquid batters also 
require hafrashas challah, provided that they contain the amount of 
flour for which one takes challah. However, according to Rabbeinu 
Tam, challah can only be taken after the batter has been baked. 
Therefore, one should first bake the cake and then cut off a small 
piece for hafrashas challah. Alternatively, one can pour off a small 
amount of batter into a cupcake tin, and bake it alongside the cake. 
After the cakes are removed from the oven, one should take the 
cupcake out of the tin and place it on top of the pan of cake and 
cover them with a towel. Then one should declare the cupcake challah. 
However, some will not make a beracha on hafrashas challah on cake in 
deference to the opinion of Aruch Hashulchan (329:15).


Learn more about this program and subscribe

http://tinyurl.com/hojxezp


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http://www.jewishjournal.com/religion/article/orthodo
x_rabbi_addresses_transgender_issues
rabbi dr weinreb's take on the issue
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On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 08:04:21AM -0800, saul newman via Avodah wrote:
: http://www.jewishjournal.com/religion/article/ort
: hodox_rabbi_addresses_transgender_issues
: rabbi dr weinreb's take on the issue

Quoting:
    "Most rabbis believe birth gender is the halachic gender for life."

    In an email later, the rabbi explained, "Thus a person born male
    who becomes a trans-female is still a male halachically, and for
    example, is obligated to wear tefillin. A person born female who
    becomes trans-male is exempt from tefillin."

    Weinreb frequently cited "Dor Tahapuchot" by Rabbi Idan Ben Efraim,
    a Hebrew exploration of transgender issues that he said is considered
    one of the most extensive...

The Tzitz Eliezer (10:25:26) in a teshuvah about heart transplants
veers into the topic at length. Until seeing this news story, I thought
it was the only published material on the subject.

   I also saw in the sefer called by the name Et Achiv (by haRov R' Yosef
   Palaji z"l) 3:5 who was asked if a case like this about requiring a
   gett. And this is his language:
       One question came up to be asked of Moreinu R' Y.Tz.V. (?) if a
       gett is required kedas Moshe veYisrael if this happens. Which is:
       Re'uvein who married a woman ... and after some years something
       happened to her that she changed from femal to male in every
       way. What is the din for someoe who was femal, and eishes ish
       and became a man -- does Re'uvein have to divorce her with a gett
       kdeas Moshe veYisrael, since she was his wife an eisher ish, or
       maybe he doesn't have to because she isn't a woman? ... In the
       topic of our question, is appears that he doesn't need a gett
       because he is male now and not a woman.

The TE relates RYP's teshuvah to genital reconstruction surgery. Now
the TE himself:

    I also believe that a man like this who was a woman first and turned
    into a man, nir'el li that when he says Birkhos haShachar does not say
    "shelo asani ishah" because he was made first a woman in his mother's
    belly and emerged to the air of the world in the form of a woman.
    Rather, he is mevareikh BAA EHH shehafachni le'ish.

Those translations date back to an scj(m) discussion. The only snippets
I had of the teshuvah is from a blog post I couldn't find right now.
But the choice of quotes was theirs, not mine.)

Notice that RZHW's conclusion is not RYP's or the TE's.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             You want to know how to paint a perfect
mi...@aishdas.org        painting?  It's easy.
http://www.aishdas.org   Make yourself perfect and then just paint
Fax: (270) 514-1507      naturally.              -Robert Pirsig

On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 08:17:52AM -0500, Prof. Levine via Avodah wrote:
: OU Kosher Halacha Yomis
:> Q. Do liquid batters such as cake batters require hafrashas challah?
...
:> However, some will not make a beracha on hafrashas challah on cake in 
:> deference to the opinion of Aruch Hashulchan ([YD] 329:15).

It's a sign of the tiomes that the AhS's position is the one taken in
deference. One could say that a belila rakah isn't chayav in challah,
as per the Tur (ad loc) who cites the Rosh.

Even the BY would exempt most cake for other reasons, not belilah raqah
(or not BR alone): if the resulting cakes doesn't have a to'ar lekhem
(citing his father too). In the SA, se'if 1 vs 2, he seems to make the
distinction more depend on sponginess or soaked in honey, which could
well exclude cake. For that matter so could his discussion of belilah
rakah kneaded with a mashqeh instad of water, depending on how much of
the liquid is water vs egg and other liquids.

The AhS quotes the Tur who says Rabbein Tam requires challah (in contrast
to his own psaq). And he mentions the chumerah of hafrashas challah
without a berakhah, but "uLAD ein la'asos kein" for two reasons:
(1) Most of our rabbis disagree. Like R' Shimshon baal haTosafos (also
via the Tur), the Ramban, and more..
(2) Even according to RT this is only with water, not egs. The Y-mi says
that a dough made of mei peiros

So this isn't really in deference to the AhS. It's in deference to
rov rishonim, and against the AhS who tells you specifically to ignore
this compromise.

It I weren't nervous to 2nd guess the OU rav who authored this piece,
I would say that we separate challah lechumerah, in deference to the SA,
but it's not iqar hadin.

Also related: The AhS OC 112:21 says that belilah rakah (giving the
examples of pancakes or blintzes) or bishul, not afiyah, and are subject
to bishul aku"m -- not pas aku"m. No possibility of pancake palter.

And in OC 168:28, he rules that a belilah rakah is a mezonos, not hamotzi.
And he even quotes the BY.

So across the board, the AhS is saying bread comes from dough (belilah
avah) not batter (belilah rakah). But lo zakhisi lehavin -- the BY doesn't
seem consistent -- for berakhos it's mezonos, for hafrashas challah,
it's bread? Help, anyone?

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             A sick person never rejects a healing procedure
mi...@aishdas.org        as "unbefitting." Why, then, do we care what
http://www.aishdas.org   other people think when dealing with spiritual
Fax: (270) 514-1507      matters?              - Rav Yisrael Salanter

On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 08:17:52AM -0500, Prof. Levine via Avodah wrote:
: OU Kosher Halacha Yomis
:> Q. Do liquid batters such as cake batters require hafrashas challah?
...
:> However, some will not make a beracha on hafrashas challah on cake in 
:> deference to the opinion of Aruch Hashulchan ([YD] 329:15).

It's a sign of the tiomes that the AhS's position is the one taken in
deference. One could say that a belila rakah isn't chayav in challah,
as per the Tur (ad loc) who cites the Rosh.

Even the BY would exempt most cake for other reasons, not belilah raqah
(or not BR alone): if the resulting cakes doesn't have a to'ar lekhem
(citing his father too). In the SA, se'if 1 vs 2, he seems to make the
distinction more depend on sponginess or soaked in honey, which could
well exclude cake. For that matter so could his discussion of belilah
rakah kneaded with a mashqeh instad of water, depending on how much of
the liquid is water vs egg and other liquids.

The AhS quotes the Tur who says Rabbein Tam requires challah (in contrast
to his own psaq). And he mentions the chumerah of hafrashas challah
without a berakhah, but "uLAD ein la'asos kein" for two reasons:
(1) Most of our rabbis disagree. Like R' Shimshon baal haTosafos (also
via the Tur), the Ramban, and more..
(2) Even according to RT this is only with water, not egs. The Y-mi says
that a dough made of mei peiros

So this isn't really in deference to the AhS. It's in deference to
rov rishonim, and against the AhS who tells you specifically to ignore
this compromise.

It I weren't nervous to 2nd guess the OU rav who authored this piece,
I would say that we separate challah lechumerah, in deference to the SA,
but it's not iqar hadin.

Also related: The AhS OC 112:21 says that belilah rakah (giving the
examples of pancakes or blintzes) or bishul, not afiyah, and are subject
to bishul aku"m -- not pas aku"m. No possibility of pancake palter.

And in OC 168:28, he rules that a belilah rakah is a mezonos, not hamotzi.
And he even quotes the BY.

So across the board, the AhS is saying bread comes from dough (belilah
avah) not batter (belilah rakah). But lo zakhisi lehavin -- the BY doesn't
seem consistent -- for berakhos it's mezonos, for hafrashas challah,
it's bread? Help, anyone?

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             A sick person never rejects a healing procedure
mi...@aishdas.org        as "unbefitting." Why, then, do we care what
http://www.aishdas.org   other people think when dealing with spiritual
Fax: (270) 514-1507      matters?              - Rav Yisrael Salanter

On 02/25/2016 02:32 PM, Micha Berger via Avodah wrote:
> Moreinu R' Y.Tz.V. (?)

Yishmereihu Tzuro Viychayeihu.

-- 
Zev Sero               All around myself I will wave the green willow
z...@sero.name          The myrtle and the palm and the citron for a week
                And if anyone should ask me the reason why I'm doing that
                I'll say "It's a Jewish thing; if you have a few minutes
                I'll explain it to you".

On 02/25/2016 03:59 PM, Lisa Liel wrote:
> On 2/25/2016 9:49 PM, Zev Sero via Avodah wrote:
>> On 02/25/2016 02:32 PM, Micha Berger via Avodah wrote:

>>> Moreinu R' Y.Tz.V. (?)

>> Yishmereihu Tzuro Viychayeihu.

> Unlikely.  From context, it's probably a name.

What makes you say that?  It seems obvious to me that it means here
exactly what it always means.  The context fits perfectly.


-- 
Zev Sero               All around myself I will wave the green willow
z...@sero.name          The myrtle and the palm and the citron for a week
                And if anyone should ask me the reason why I'm doing that
                I'll say "It's a Jewish thing; if you have a few minutes
                I'll explain it to you".

Unlikely.  From context, it's probably a name.

On 2/25/2016 9:49 PM, Zev Sero via Avodah wrote:
> On 02/25/2016 02:32 PM, Micha Berger via Avodah wrote:
>> Moreinu R' Y.Tz.V. (?)
>
> Yishmereihu Tzuro Viychayeihu.
>

On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 02:49:07PM -0500, Zev Sero via Avodah wrote:
: On 02/25/2016 02:32 PM, Micha Berger via Avodah wrote:
:> Moreinu R' Y.Tz.V. (?)

: Yishmereihu Tzuro Viychayeihu.

Assuming you are correct, who would that be?

I know little about RYPalaji's Et Achiv. Was it compiled by talmidim and
the reference is to RYP himself? Does it refer to RYP's rebbe (the Bet
Yitzchaq), the previous chakham bashi (CR) of Izmir, someone else?

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

On 02/25/2016 06:28 PM, Micha Berger wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 02:49:07PM -0500, Zev Sero via Avodah wrote:
> : On 02/25/2016 02:32 PM, Micha Berger via Avodah wrote:
> :> Moreinu R' Y.Tz.V. (?)
>
> : Yishmereihu Tzuro Viychayeihu.
>
> Assuming you are correct, who would that be?

He says Mori veRabi YTzV.  That would presumably be his rebbe, whoever
that was.

> I know little about RYPalaji's Et Achiv.

The sefer is Yosef Et Achiv or Echav, I'm not sure which.

> Was it compiled by talmidim

No, he wrote it himself.

> Does it refer to RYP's rebbe (the Bet Yitzchaq),

I don't think he was his talmid.


-- 
Zev Sero               All around myself I will wave the green willow
z...@sero.name          The myrtle and the palm and the citron for a week
                And if anyone should ask me the reason why I'm doing that
                I'll say "It's a Jewish thing; if you have a few minutes
                I'll explain it to you".

As far as I know, the only place that the Shulchan Aruch quotes a specific 
ayin hara as a reason for a Halacha is in O"C 141:6 where he doesn't allow
two brothers to get consecutive aliyot for this reason.  Anyone heard any
reason why this is the case? Also the later commentaries struggle with the
scope of this Halacha. Any insights on the nature of this ayin hara would
be appreciated.
KT
Joel Rich

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>> Does it refer to RYP's rebbe (the Bet Yitzchaq),

> I don't think he was his talmid.

He wasn't.   The BY was his father's rebbe, not his.


-- 
Zev Sero               All around myself I will wave the green willow
z...@sero.name          The myrtle and the palm and the citron for a week
                And if anyone should ask me the reason why I'm doing that
                I'll say "It's a Jewish thing; if you have a few minutes
                I'll explain it to you".


------------------------------



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