Avodah Mailing List

Volume 33: Number 67

Sun, 26 Apr 2015

• 1. Re: elu v-elu (Eli Turkel)
• 2. The Legacy of RSRH, Zt'L (Prof. Levine)
• 3. Re: elu v-elu (Zev Sero)
• 4. A Papal Honor for an Orthodox Rabbi. (Harry Maryles)
• 5. Making a Berakhah when Lighting for Shabbos Early (Micha Berger)
• 6. Re: Making a Berakhah when Lighting for Shabbos Early (Daniel M. Israel)
• 7. Re: Making a Berakhah when Lighting for Shabbos Early (Micha Berger)
• 8. Re: Making a Berakhah when Lighting for Shabbos Early (Kenneth Miller)
• 9. Turning Jealousy into Progress (David Wacholder)
• 10. Beautiful Vort (Cantor Wolberg)
• 11. Re: The Legacy of RSRH, Zt'L (Ben Waxman)
• 12. Lashon Hara and the Internet (Kenneth Miller)
• 13. YIDDISHKEIT WITHOUT IDEOLOGY: A LETTER TO My SON (Prof. Levine)

>> R Michael Avraham points out that pluraism is self-contradictory.
>> According to that viewpoint one legitimate viewpoint is monism !

...
> Strict monism, which rejects the gemara's statement that "eilu va'eilu
> DACh", is by definition wrong.

Monism doesn't reject the gemara just interprets it different

That was the shiur

>> Question: Can you offer someone food that you think is kosher but he
>> doesn't accept the kashrut
>> Answer:
>> Monism - no problem as you are right and he is wrong
>> Pluralism - assur since his opinion is acceptable

> It depends whether his concern is legitimate.  If there is a legitimate
> opinion or minhag that forbids or refrains from whatever it is, or if he
> has a legitimate private chumra, then there is no question that it is assur
> to be machshil him.

No  question is your  opinion a true  monist
Would argue that there are no other  legitimate opinions hence  the  other
is wrong and you are not machshil him

[Email #2, also in reply to this latter quote. -micha]

You are not being machshil by offering food that he won't eat because of
his minhag or chumrot you are mikayem shalach Manot even if he doesn't
accept the kashrut

At 06:13 AM 4/23/2015, R. Ben Waxman wrote:

 >How did Rav Breuer work to ensure the conditions that "we could feel
 >justified to call it a Kiddush HaShem"?

I really have no specifics.  but I do know that Rav Breuer was busy
here in the US building a model Kehilla and educating Baalei
Batim.  I know that some of those from his Kehilla did move to
EY.  In particular,  I know one person who was a professional and a
follower of TIDE who moved to EY.  I am sure that he did whatever he
could to strengthen Yahadus in EY.

But let me ask a related question.  What are the observant now living
in EY doing "to ensure the conditions that 'we could feel justifies
to call it a Kiddush HaShem"?

YL

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On 04/23/2015 08:07 AM, Eli Turkel via Avodah wrote:
>
>>> >>Question: Can you offer someone food that you think is kosher but he
>>> >>doesn't accept the kashrut
>>> >>Answer:
>>> >>Monism - no problem as you are right and he is wrong
>>> >>Pluralism - assur since his opinion is acceptable
>> >It depends whether his concern is legitimate.  If there is a legitimate
>> >opinion or minhag that forbids or refrains from whatever it is, or if he
>> >has a legitimate private chumra, then there is no question that it is assur
>> >to be machshil him.
> No  question is your  opinion a true  monist
> Would argue that there are no other  legitimate opinions hence  the  other
> is wrong and you are not machshil him

Even if there is only one truth, you don't necessarily know for sure what
it is.  You make your best guess, but someone else makes his, and for all
you know he may have hit on the truth, even if only by accident, while you,
with all your careful analysis of the evidence, may have been led astray.

Let's take medicine, where there really is only one truth, but often we
don't know for sure what it is.  Does gluten in the diet negatively affect
the health of most normal people?  There doesn't seem to be a lot of evidence
for that proposition, but it can't be ruled out.  Maybe in 20 years we will
observe that those who have followed the gluten-free fad really are healthier,
and someone will discover how it is that gluten harms a person.  Or maybe
it will be established that it's exactly the mishguas that it appears to be.
But until then we are just guessing, and if you hold that it's a mishugas
but someone else is worried about it, you have to consider the possibility
that he may be right, and by tricking him into eating gluten you may actually
be harming him.

-- 
Zev Sero               I have a right to stand on my own defence, if you
z...@sero.name          intend to commit felony...if a robber meets me in
                        the street and commands me to surrender my purse,
                        I have a right to kill him without asking questions
                                               -- John Adams

JTA is reporting that Pope Francis will be bestowing Papal Knighthood upon
Rabbi Arthur Schneier (who I believe is an Orthodox Rabbi) for (among other
things) his work in promoting a positive relationship with the Church.
According to JTA,?Schneier will formally become a knight of Saint Sylvester
at a ceremony on April 27.Isn't there a Halachic probelm with this? It
would seem to me that becoming a 'knight' in the Catholic church ?would at
least be Avak Avodah Zara - even though it is just honorary?
HM??Want Emes and Emunah in your life? 

Try this: http://haemtza.blogspot.com/
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What should someone who forgot to make an eiruv tavshilin (or ate the food
already, the food went bad, etc...) who for some reason can not rely on
the rabbi's communal failsafe eruv (perhaps he isn't in a neighborhood
with an observant community) do for lighting Shabbos candles?

So, the BY (OC 537:19) permits, but he says "veyeish oserin". The AhS
(se'if 28) names the oserim as the Rosh and the Ran, and that the SA
names the Rambam (via a diyuq halashon)as his source lehatir. The AhS
then questions the diyuq, but says it should be allowed anyway, since
one gets hana'ah from the neiros while on YT too.

So I'm wondering about this... If someone uses existing lights, ones you
used while still Friday, what "lehadliq" is she making a berakhah on?
Yes, there is light for enjoying the Shabbos meal, all the same shalom
bayis. But there is no actual pe'ulah to make the berakhah on. Is there?

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Today is the 19th day, which is
mi...@aishdas.org        2 weeks and 5 days in/toward the omer.
http://www.aishdas.org   Hod sheb'Tifferes: When does harmony promote
Fax: (270) 514-1507                         withdrawal and submission?

On 2015-04-23 16:14, Micha Berger via Avodah wrote: 
> What should someone who forgot to make an eiruv tavshilin...
>                          ... do for lighting Shabbos candles?

> So, the BY (OC 537:19) permits...                             The AhS
> then questions the diyuq, but says it should be allowed anyway, since
> one gets hana'ah from the neiros while on YT too.

> So I'm wondering about this... If someone uses existing lights, ones you
> used while still Friday, what "lehadliq" is she making a berakhah on?

Off the cuff hypothesis: 

Perhaps for the one lighting, it becomes Shabbos immediately, so the
hadlakah is for Shabbos and there is a beracha. But for others in the
house, they likely don't take on Shabbos until davening, and therefor
they enjoy it on YT. Which would be enough to matir her lighting them. 

But I have no source. 

-- 
Daniel Israel
d...@cornell.edu

On Thu, Apr 23, 2015 at 04:21:06PM -0700, Daniel M. Israel wrote:
: Perhaps for the one lighting, it becomes Shabbos immediately, so the
: hadlakah is for Shabbos and there is a beracha. But for others in the
: house, they likely don't take on Shabbos until davening, and therefor
: they enjoy it on YT. Which would be enough to matir her lighting them. 

Not  bad, if we don't read too much into the AhS not limiting this
solution to cases where the candle-lighter isn't alone in the home.
Nor does he mention having to use candles lit after pelag, nor her
making a berakhah upon lighting and having an issur melakhah...

Could be, but I find it dachuq.

-Micha

R' Micha Berger asked:

> What should someone who forgot to make an eiruv tavshilin (or
> ate the food already, the food went bad, etc...) who for some
> reason can not rely on the rabbi's communal failsafe eruv
> (perhaps he isn't in a neighborhood with an observant community)
> do for lighting Shabbos candles?

Another problem this person will have is what to eat on Shabbos. There are
several ideas offered by the poskim, and one of them is to cook extra food
on Yom Tov, and the extra will be for Shabbos. This can be done even
without an Eiruv Tavshilin, IIRC, because the melacha is not being done
exclusively for Shabbos.

> So, the BY (OC 537:19) [that should be 527:19 - Akiva] permits,
> but he says "veyeish oserin". The AhS (se'if 28) names the oserim
> as the Rosh and the Ran, and that the SA names the Rambam (via a
> diyuq halashon)as his source lehatir. The AhS then questions the
> diyuq, but says it should be allowed anyway, since one gets
> hana'ah from the neiros while on YT too.

This sounds to me the same as above. The lighting is not being done exclusively for Shabbos, and therefore may be done on YT.

I would note that at no point in that se'if, does the AhS explicitly refers
to the *mitzvah* of lighting Shabbos neros. Rather, his focus is on the
practical need to light them in the late afternoon, both because it is
*already* getting dark and hard to see without some artifical light, and
because we won't be able to light anything later on.

Truth be told, if lighting Shabbos candles is allowed only with an Eruv
Tavshilin, then this whole se'if is needed even for a person who DID
remember to make an Eruv, because (l'chatchila) one must do his Shabbos
preparations early in the day, in a manner in which the melacha is -- or at
least *could* be -- for tzorchei Yom Tov, and not exclusively for Shabbos.

> So I'm wondering about this... If someone uses existing lights,
> ones you used while still Friday, what "lehadliq" is she making
> a berakhah on? Yes, there is light for enjoying the Shabbos meal,
> all the same shalom bayis. But there is no actual pe'ulah to make
> the berakhah on. Is there?

I don't know where you see anything like this in the AhS. The AhS is
explicitly talking about lighting after mincha, when it is already dark and
the light is already useful. I concede that perhaps one should omit the
bracha, because it explicitly declares one's intentions to be of a hachana
nature, but that is a separate question not raised by the AhS. The main
point I want to make in this paragraph is that the AhS never suggested that
one might be yotzay Mitzvas Ner Shabbos via the candle that he lit in the
early afternoon; it must be lit after Plag, with the intention that it will
be burning into Shabbos.

Akiva Miller
____________________________________________________________
Old School Yearbook Pics
View Class Yearbooks Online Free. Search by School & Year. Look Now!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/55399563ca1dd156333b3st04vuc

Envy - Jealousy ? Kin?ah ? is an obvious theme for Parshas Mtzora.

Paraphrasing freely (from L?chai Ro?-EY page 184),  Midrash
Tehillim/Shochar Tov on 37:1 parallel of TiTCHaR and TeKaNNEi. Do not fall
victim to despondence those plotting evil, do not emulate those who succeed
in career of crime. Rashi BMiDBar 25:11 neatly ties both into a General
Theory of Jealousy.
KoL LaSHON KiNAH HU  HaMiTCHaReH LiNKom NiKMaS DaVaR.

Rashi?s keyword is worth a thousand words. Rashi expects that we know
Tanach and Midrash references. To catch Rashi?s nuance, always, I consult
my paper Milon Gur  [also in HebrewBooks.com].
HaMiTCHaReH is the exotic addition to our vocabulary. My trusty dictionary
comes through here.

Milon Gur pages 310 311 on CHaRaH:

CHaRaH intransitive verb, showing outwardly as Ca_US  or  KaTZUF.    ?
foaming and frothing anger, against a traitor or hated enemy. determination
to avenge and restore the Balance of Justice.
 HiTLaHeiV burning simmering anger, pressure like volcanic eruption.

Hashem to Yonah ? are you truly upset ? HaHeYTeiV CHaRaH LCHa YoNaH?

Divine CHaRON AF boiling or simmering anger  is satisfied only by
repentance, not by punishment.
CHaRUCHA [burnt like over done fire-roast, long term anger leads to
burn-through and burn-out.
CHaRUL thorny tangle
Milon Gur page 1088   McharCher RIV ? drum up strife and enmity
CHaRCHuR ? disease of loss of muscle and strength.
 MChaRCHer Riv, CharumAf [nose ?bent out of shape? inset into face]  and  for
Tacharut as resentment destroyed relationship.

 Rashi in  Machzor Vitri 148 uses CHeReTZ in a unique way. Hashem jealously
and with energy demands  perfection from the world. Why does the Creator
demand perfection? Rashi believes that Hashem cares strongly about the
world. When the Adam attempts to be good, but falls short, He uses
Rachamim, parenting skills, looking to the potential of ?You will worship
Elokim on this mountain?.  identification with the world demands
perfection. When the world tries but falls short, fails to perform, Hashem
uses Rachamim, flexibility, patience, empathy. He settles for potential.

When the world rebels against Hashem, refuses to acknowledge Him at all, or
mocking Him, rejecting their Father, breaking up the family, then there is
Charon Af, red faced simmering anger.



Rav Avraham Ruby authored the ?Tzilusa DiShmaata? series, focusing on
chapters of the Baba-s routinely learnt  Afternoon Seder which are
master-works of Lamdus. Rav Moshe Shmuel Shapiro of Be?eir Yaakov was a
talented teacher, and R? Ruby is an extremely able student.

This year R? Ruby has turned his talents to creating the same sort of
succinct and sharp presentation on Chumash.[L?chai Ro?-EY on Vayikra, self
published 5775, contact me.].  Each Parsha offers an eclectic collection of
solid sources. The organization is always unique and refreshing.

L?chai Ro?-EY  185 shows the constructive power of ambition. Identity,
membership,self-image, pride, place in society are all motivators of
constructive behavior.


Kinah jealousy is secondary, when there is an insult or threat to Hashem?s
identity, or the individual?s. Ideally our self-image should include praise
of Hashem and hatred of all insults against the Honor of Hashem. Only live
in a town with Jewish services, and help create them. Your material
ambitions include the dimension of Mitzvos and Kidush Hashem.

 A higher level of identity, ambition and constructive jealousy is aspiring
to your neighbor?s higher spiritual levels. Even the Heavenly angels and
even Avraham Avinu found mentors to emulate. Of course, the type of
destructive strife we often see has other roots.   Building a Jewish family
is much easier with stronger spiritual models.

-- 
David Wacholder
Cell: 917-742-7838
Email: dwachol...@gmail.com
dwachol...@optonline.net
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I recently came upon the following, listening to a hesped for Rabbi Mordechai Fachler zt?l,
who was nift?r in November 2010.  The hesped (one of many for Rav Fachler) was 
delivered by Rabbi Moshe Shirkin of England. This is just one part that caught my attention
and was very touching.


In previous generations the g?dolei Yisroel were discussing what?s the function of a Rav?

The Rosh Yeshiva in Grodna (at the time) said the task of the Rav is to give shiurim.

The Rav of Kovna, poisek oilam, said the task of the Rav

is to pasken shailas.

They came to Reb Chayim of Brisk and asked

him what is the task of the Rav. 

His impressive response was:

To give shiurim, you have a Rosh Yeshiva.

To pasken shailas, you have a dayan.

The task of the Rav is to do chesed with his oilam.


A clergyman comforts the disturbed and disturbs the comfortable.
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On 4/23/2015 6:11 PM, Prof. Levine via Avodah wrote:
> But let me ask a related question. What are the observant now living
> in EY doing "to ensure the conditions that 'we could feel justifies
> to call it a Kiddush HaShem"?
I gave an answer on Areivim, but I saw a couple of things on Shabbat 
which warrant an Avodah response. The first is from Yoma 86:A, Rashi, 
B'Amor Lehem (my translation): "Evil comes to chassidim and chachamim 
because "They desecrated My Holy name" (note: Rashi is of course 
assuming that they didn't do any particular sin to warrant what happened 
to them). How did they desecrate (God's name)? In those places to where 
they were exiled, the non-Jews say "These are the people of God" and He 
can't redeem them. Conclusion: God's name has been desecrated." End quote.

Therefore the creation of the State is, in of itself,  a Kiddush Hashem. 
Rav Soloveitch tz"l wrote about this point in Kol Dodi Dofek and in his 
drashot for the Kinot, as did Rav Zvi Yehuda Kook tz"l.

However, I don't want to leave it at that. Rav Cherki (father of Shalom 
HY"D) wrote the following in this week's Shabbat B'shabato:

"And this leads us to a moral question: How can it be that with respect 
to the most significant event in all of history, the redemption, the 
existence or lack of good deeds has no effect at all? This tension 
between the inevitability of redemption and arbitrary choices made by 
man is what makes it necessary for the nation of Yisrael to observe all 
the mitzvot in detail, in order to avoid creating a dissonance between 
the need for justice (which appears in the covenant in the Torah portion 
of Bechukotai) and the values of the path of unification, which insists 
that G-d is always working to glorify His name, no matter what else is 
happening. And that is why the Haftarah ends with the adamant demand of 
the Holy One, Blessed be He: "I am your G-d. Follow My laws and maintain 
My just actions and perform them, and sanctify my Shabbat and let it be 
a symbol between Me and you, in order to know that I am your G-d." 
[Yechezkel 20:19-20]."

No one, not the most hard core DL around, says that there is nothing 
wrong with the State, that there isn't what that needs changing, from 
the level of how people get on a bus to the national agenda. In his 
hesped, Rav Cherki mentioned that his son Shalom went to the navy to 
help start a hesder unit for the navy, even though he knew that the 
religious level in the navy wasn't as high as it was in other units. He 
went there for the greater good, to help make the IDF a bit more Torah 
oriented, period. Rav Cherki went on to say that the answer to Shalom's 
murder was to add Kiddush HaShem.

Ben

On Areivim, there were some posts speaking about the residents of a certain area or areas. Someone commented:

> I'm a little surprised at this exchange.  Sefer Chafetz Chaim is
> pretty clear about not saying loshen hara on a place or the
> residents of a place.

Someone else responded:

> I am no expert on what is LH and what is not, but with the Internet
> I think that some of the halachos probably do not apply to today's
> world. Find me a sefer that deals with LH and the Internet, and
> then we will talk.

I too am no expert in Sefer Chafetz Chaim, but I clearly remember it
talking about Lashon Hara via the written word, such as in personal letters
to friends and relatives, or by publishing books and newspapers. Can
someone find those sources and tell us where they are?

I find it difficult to imagine that today's world is so different from that
of a hundred years ago "that some of the halachos probably do not apply to
today's world."  But without quoting actual sources, it's simply a case of
my imagination vs that of the other poster. So I am hoping that someone can
help with the source material, "and then we will talk."

Akiva Miller
____________________________________________________________
Old School Yearbook Pics
View Class Yearbooks Online Free. Search by School & Year. Look Now!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/553d4ab51dc554ab54c25st03vuc

 From 
http://traditionarchive.org/news/originals/Volume%2036
/No.%202/Yiddishkeit%20Without.pdf

Let me be absolutely clear: where the demands of halacha are unambiguous,
you must submit to them. But how does one navigate between
much less well-defined traditional attitudes and strong personal inclinations?
When I was your age I didn't know the answer-I still don't-but
one proposition that seemed self-evident to me at the time was that it
was essential to be consistent. In other words, I felt that I had to some-
how make sure that the way I defined Yiddishkeit and the way I defined
my commitments given my own inclinations would be perfectly aligned.
I'm now convinced that that commitment to consistency was utter-
ly wrong-headed and is the key to all that is wrong with institutional
Yiddishkeit. I shouldn't have been defining either Yiddishkeit or my
commitments at al. To do so is to reduce Yiddishkeit to ideology which
is exactly what it is not.

See the above UL for more.  YL

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