Avodah Mailing List

Volume 30: Number 146

Thu, 25 Oct 2012

• 1. Re: web site on shabbat (Chana Luntz)
• 2. Re: web site on shabbat (Zev Sero)
• 3. Re: web site on shabbat (Ben Waxman)
• 4. Re: web site on shabbat (Chana Luntz)
• 5. you can't say you already heard a vort that a person begins to tell you (Rich, Joel)
• 6. Why A Rainbow? (cantorwolb...@cox.net)
• 7. Re: web site on shabbat (Micha Berger)
• 8. Hasidim davening early (David Riceman)
• 9. Tinok Shenishbeh (Zev Sero)
• 10. Re: Pronunciation Of Hebrew Benedictions, And Two Other Questions (Akiva Miller)
• 11. Re: Pronunciation Of Hebrew Benedictions, And Two Other Questions (Micha Berger)
• 12. The Three-Ply Cord | Rabbi Pruzansky's Blog (Yosef Gavriel Bechhofer)

RBW writes:
>On what basis did the SR come to this? How can anyone be expected to erase
>a lifetime of learning after 5 minutes of exposure?

This question only makes sense if one accepts the premise of the Binyan
Tzion. But that is by no means so pashut. The gemora (Chullin 5a) states
categorically that korbanos are accepted from poshei yisrael, except
for one who is a mumar for idolatry and mechalel shabbas b'farhesia.
That certainly sounds like an absolute category. Similarly in the SA
(Yoreh Deah siman 2 si'if 5).

The only reference in the gemora to a TSN is in Shabbas 68b-69a, which
discusses how many korbanos a TSN needs to bring after violating many
shabbasos and doing many melochos. But the gemora there contrasts a TSN
to somebody who originally recognised (the term is "hikir") shabbas,
then forgot at the time of doing the melacha, then recognised again,
as opposed to a TSN being somebody who never knew. This is then further
contrasted to somebody who had knowledge "hayadia" at the time of the act,
which Rabbi Akiva at least understood to mean one is a mezid.

Now the very fact that one is having the discussion makes it clear that
the gemora considers a TSN as somebody from whom one would, on discovering
the many averos they have done, accept korbanos, even though they were a
mechalel shabbas b'farhesia. But to say, as the Binyan Tzion has to say,
that a TSN includes somebody who really knows the details of shabbas,
just is psychologically unable to accept its obligatory nature due to
their background (lifetime of learning), and thus is somebody who was not
"hikir" shabbas is a stretch. The reading of the SR (or if not him, the
Munkatcher) that somebody who knows the details of shabbas, regardless
of his psychological state, is somebody with yedia, and hence within
the definition of a mazid, is a much more straightforward reading.

To follow the Binyan Tzion, one has to accept an idea that a person can be
psychologically imprisoned by their background as effectively as being
physically isolated by the non Jewish nations. It does tend to jibe
with modern thinking on the lack of full responsibility of eg ghetto
kids for their actions due to their circumstances, but not so well with
many of the more classic Jewish sources which if anything tend to assume
absolute responsibility for one's acts.

Regards
Chana

On 21/10/2012 7:01 PM, Chana Luntz wrote:
> Now the very fact that one is having the discussion makes it clear that the
> gemora considers a TSN as somebody from whom one would, on discovering the
> many averos they have done, accept korbanos, even though they were a
> mechalel shabbas b'farhesia.

Well, of course one would, because by the time he brings the korbanos
he's obviously done teshuvah. Otherwise he wouldn't be bringing them,
and he wouldn't be asking the question of how many he must bring.

And indeed pashtus hagemara is that we are talking about someone who knew
that he was Jewish, and kept everything that he knew Jews were meant to
do, but he had no idea that Jews don't work on Saturdays.

-- 
Zev Sero
z...@sero.name

On 10/22/2012 1:01 AM, Chana Luntz wrote:
> The reading of the SR (or if not him, the Munkatcher) that somebody 
> who knows the details of shabbas, regardless of his psychological 
> state, is somebody with yedia, and hence within the definition of a 
> mazid, is a much more straightforward reading. To follow the Binyan 
> Tzion, one has to accept an idea that a person can be psychologically 
> imprisoned by their background as effectively as being physically 
> isolated by the non Jewish nations. It does tend to jibe with modern 
> thinking on the lack of full responsibility of eg ghetto kids for 
> their actions due to their circumstances, but not so well with many of 
> the more classic Jewish sources which if anything tend to assume 
> absolute responsibility for one's acts.

1) My first question would be "what do mean, the details of Shabbat?" He
knows the mesechet and the Rambam? He knows that if you drive through Bnei
Brak or Mea Sharim you are risking a rock? How much does he have to know?

2) Knowing the details of Shabbat is far different than knowing that
there are dati'im who keep Shabbat.

Ben

On 21/10/2012 7:01 PM, I wrote:
> Now the very fact that one is having the discussion makes it clear that the
> gemora considers a TSN as somebody from whom one would, on discovering the
> many averos they have done, accept korbanos, even though they were a
> mechalel shabbas b'farhesia.

And RZS replied:

>Well, of course one would, because by the time he brings the korbanos
>he's obviously done teshuvah.  Otherwise he wouldn't be bringing them,
>and he wouldn't be asking the question of how many he must bring.

Not so of course as it might seem. The Rambam states in hilchos
shabbas perek 30 halacha 15 that that shabbas is a sign between HKBH
and us forever. Therefore one who violates other mitzvos they are in
the category of the wicked of Israel.

But one who is mechallel shabbas befarhesia behold he is like who
worships idols and both of these are like a non Jew in all respects.
And then further in hilchos oved chochavim perek 2 halacha 5 that not
only one who is a mumar l'oved kochavim is a non Jew in all respects
but that v'ain mekablin otum b'teshuva l'olam.

So there is a serious question as to whether somebody who was mechallel
shabbas b'farhesia is considered to have put himself so far beyond the
pale as to never able to be received in teshuva. Now pashtus of the
brief discussion of the gemora regarding a TSN is not, but it is not an
"of course". You could say that such a person has defined himself as
a non Jew by his acts, and cannot come back.

>And indeed pashtus hagemara is that we are talking about someone who knew
> that he was Jewish, and kept everything that he knew Jews were
>meant to do, but he had no idea that Jews don't work on Saturdays.

Yes, that was my point. That is precisely the reading of the Munkatcher -
who held the concept did not extend to somebody who both knew he was Jewish,
and knew that those old fashioned Orthodox Jews didn't work on Saturdays,
but felt he was too modern to do so.


RBW writes:
>1) My first question would be "what do mean, the details of Shabbat?" He
> knows the mesechet and the Rambam? He knows that if you drive through Bnei
> Brak or Mea Sharim you are risking a rock? How much does he have to know?
> 2) Knowing the details of Shabbat is far different than knowing that there
> are dati'im who keep Shabbat.

I think RZS hit the nail on the head when he said:
>And indeed pashtus hagemara is that we are talking about someone who
>knew that he was Jewish, and kept everything that he knew Jews were
>meant to do, but he had no idea that Jews don't work on Saturdays.

They understand a TSN as being somebody who does everything he is aware of
Jews being meant to do, but his isolation means that he just doesn't know
what that means in practical terms, so he gets a lot of things wrong.
So in terms of your discussion above - somebody who knows that if
they drive through Meah Sharim they risk a rock, knows that driving is
(according to Orthodox Jews) forbidden on Shabbat -and thus according
to those who follow the simple pashtus of the gemora, vis a vis driving
he is not a TSN, he is mechallel shabbas b'mezid. They might indeed be
willing to acknowledge that vis a vis tearing toilet paper, a din that
such a person has almost certainly never heard of, that person might be
considered a TSN - but since we have the driving on shabbas, which is
a classic example of being mechallel shabbas b'farhesia, then the din
of such a person is like a non Jew, and it is no more appropriate to be
mekarev them than a non Jew. And especially as, if you do teach them
about tearing on shabbas, you might just find you now have more dinim
which they are over b'mezid.

It is the Binyan Tzion's understanding which is the stretch - that people
are psychologically imprisoned by their upbringing, and hence even if they
intellectually know about not driving on shabbas, that does not mean they
are capable of taking such obligation on, without breaking down the walls
in their heart which are keeping them imprisoned. Ie the barriers that
are created vis a vis a real TSN are not just due to his lack of knowledge
due to be far away from Jews, but due to the teachings and actions of
the non Jews that keep him captive, and that such concept of captivity
can be extended to people whose parents deliberated left and took them
with them, and imbued them with negativity for all things religious.

Regards
Chana

A friend of mine is convinced there is a statement in the Gemara or Rishonim that
you can't say you already heard a vort that a person begins to tell you.  I found something in the Alshich but nothing earlier.
Is anyone aware of an earlier reference?
KT
Joel Rich

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R' M Cohen wrote:
I have also wondered for v many years why such a beautiful thing is used to
remind of our sins, to do tshuva, etc.

It makes perfect sense. Stop and think. 
The gemara in Yuma (86b) says that when we do Teshuva out of fear "Zidonos Na'aseh K'Shgagos"; 
Hashem considers the aveiros we did intentionally, as if we did it without intent and does not punish us. 
However, when we do Teshuva out of love "Zidonos Na'aseh K'Zichuyos"; our aveiros turn into mitzvos. That is the power of Teshuva Mi'Ahava.  
When we do teshuva out of love, the rainbow is beautiful. That's the deeper message of the beautiful rainbow.
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On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 12:01:38AM +0100, Chana Luntz wrote:
: The only reference in the gemora to a TSN is in Shabbas 68b-69a, which
: discusses how many korbanos a TSN needs to bring after violating many
: shabbasos and doing many melochos...

There is also Abayei on Shevuos 5a. Beshogeig only includes someone who once
knew the halakhah and forgot it beshe'as ma'aseh. R' Papa quotes a mishnah
about someone who never heard of tum'ah, and expresses disbelief that such
a person could exist. To which Abayei gives the example of a TSN.

The gemara in Shabbos gives a machloqes:

Rav and Shemuel (which the gemara pins to Munvaz in a beraisa): A TSN
is like beshogeig, and would have to bring a qorban. (Either one for
Shabbos, or if he knew about Shabbos but not each melakhah, one for each
av melakhah.)

R' Yochanan & Reish Laqish (following R' Aqiva in that beraisa): A TSN
doesn't have to bring qorbanos.

Notice Abayei holds like the Israeli amoraim in Mes Shabbos, not the
Bavliim.

In any case, the TSN is just an example, not a category bifnei atzmo
with its own chalos sheim, of someone who is either beshogeig or less
than beshogeieg.

Makkos 9a says that the omer mutar is acting be'oneis. (Then there
is a machloqes whether in the case of killing a geir toshav it may be
sufficiently qarov lemeizid to be chayav biYdei Shamayim.)

Wouldn't the person who knows that there is a tradition not to write two
letters on Shabbos, but thinks that the whole concept isn't real be an
omer mutar, an oneis, not even on the shogeig spectrum?

And if not, why wouldn't his ignorance of the reality of the consequences
put him on the shogeig spectrum, whether shogeig or TSN?

Either way, I don't understand the tzad lechumerah.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             A pious Jew is not one who worries about his fellow
mi...@aishdas.org        man's soul and his own stomach; a pious Jew worries
http://www.aishdas.org   about his own soul and his fellow man's stomach.
Fax: (270) 514-1507                       - Rav Yisrael Salanter

I just finished rereading an intellectual biography of R Simhah Bunim of 
Przysucha, and I began to wonder why we hear many stories about Hasidim 
davening after the appropriate time, but no stories about Hasidim 
davening before the appropriate time.

  Suppose a person knew that it typically takes him three hours to 
prepare to daven.  If he wanted to daven k'vasikin he might start 
preparing, say, at 3 AM.  If some day his preparations are unusually 
fast he could find himself finshing shacharis before alos hashahar.

Yet I've never heard any stories about something like that happening.

Why not?

David Riceman

On 23/10/2012 4:10 AM, Chana Luntz wrote:
> On 21/10/2012 7:01 PM, I wrote:

>>> Now the very fact that one is having the discussion makes it clear that
>>> the gemora considers a TSN as somebody from whom one would, on discovering
>>> the many averos they have done, accept korbanos, even though they were a
>>> mechalel shabbas b'farhesia.

> And RZS replied:

>> Well, of course one would, because by the time he brings the korbanos
>> he's obviously done teshuvah.  Otherwise he wouldn't be bringing them,
>> and he wouldn't be asking the question of how many he must bring.

> Not so of course as it might seem.  The Rambam states in hilchos shabbas
> perek 30 halacha 15 that [...] one who is mechallel shabbas befarhesia
> behold he is like who worships idols and both of these are like a non Jew
> in all respects.  And then further in hilchos oved chochavim perek 2
> halacha 5 that not only one who is a mumar l'oved kochavim is a non Jew
> in all respects but that  v'ain mekablin otum b'teshuva l'olam.

First of all, he doesn't say that about an idolater but about "haminim
miyisrael". But more importantly, it's impossible to read this as a
halacha that they can't do teshuvah and we should reject their korbanos.
The Torah explicitly prescribes korbanos for AZ. For that matter,
we accept korbanos from a goy, so even if an ex-mumar remains like a
goy on what grounds could we reject his korbanos. Furthermore, see
Hil' Teshuvah 3:14, which explicitly says that "minim" (see 3:7) and
"meshumadim" *are* accepted if they do teshuvah.

But we both missed another point (or at least I missed it, and I *think*
you did too). A korban chatas is only brought for chilul shabbos (or AZ)
*beshogeg*. The premise of the gemara is that a TSN is shogeg, and the
question is only how many shgagos he committed, and the answer is one.
If we consider him mezid then we would not accept his chata'os because
he doesn't owe any, and there's no such thing as a voluntary chatas.
Rather, we would advise him to bring olos for his teshuvah, and to bring
as many as his conscience dictated.


> So there is a serious question as to whether somebody who was mechallel
> shabbas b'farhesia is considered to have put himself so far beyond the pale
> as to never able to be received in teshuva.  Now pashtus of the brief
> discussion of the gemora regarding a TSN is not, but it is not an "of
> course".  You could say that such a person has defined himself as a non Jew
> by his acts, and cannot come back.

Again, even an actual non-Jew is welcome to come, so how can an apostate
not be welcome back? But the entire premise of TSN is that he is shogeg.
The question here is whether the person we're discussing, who knows about
Shabbos but through no fault of his own doesn't believe it to be true,
is a TSN.


>> And indeed pashtus hagemara is that we are talking about someone who knew
>> that he was Jewish, and kept everything that he knew Jews were
>> meant to do, but he had no idea that Jews don't work on Saturdays.

> Yes, that was my point. That is precisely the reading of the Munkatcher -
> who held the concept did not extend to somebody who both knew he was Jewish,
> and knew that those old fashioned Orthodox Jews didn't work on Saturdays,
> but felt he was too modern to do so.

No, if *that's* what he thinks, that it's just a minhag that very
religious people keep, rather than Jewish law that all Jews are meant to
keep, then he's still a TSN lechol hade'os. The question arises when
he knows that Jewish law requires it of all Jews, but he thinks Jewish
law is itself a myth, something that isn't binding or relevant to him.
And that's something the gemara didn't really deal with, because in their
day it wasn't a metzius. Everyone in their day knew and accepted that
Jews must keep Jewish law. The only things a TSN might not have known
were either that he is Jewish, or what Jewish law requires.



On 23/10/2012 4:27 AM, Chana Luntz wrote:
> They understand a TSN as being somebody who does everything he is aware of
> Jews being meant to do, but his isolation means that he just doesn't know
> what that means in practical terms, so he gets a lot of things wrong.  So in
> terms of your discussion above - somebody who knows that if they drive
> through Meah Sharim they risk a rock, knows that driving is (according to
> Orthodox Jews) forbidden on Shabbat -and thus according to those who follow
> the simple pashtus of the gemora, vis a vis driving he is not a TSN, he is
> mechallel shabbas b'mezid.

Knowing that driving in that area on Shabbos risks a rock doesn't mean he
knows that driving is forbidden on Shabbos. He may think it's a crazy
charedi chumra. If I carry in an eruv that I believe is kosher, but
know that certain people will call me "sheigetz", or even throw stones
at me, does that mean I know I'm being mechalel shabbos?! Surely even
if the Sanhedrin eventually were to rule that they were right and the
eruv was pasul, I would be deemed a shogeg and would be ordered to bring
a chatas. So even by the strict definition a person driving on Shabbos
may still be a TSN. (Not to mention that he may be driving beheter,
e.g. for pikuach nefesh.)

-- 
Zev Sero
z...@sero.name

R' Jay F. ("Yaakov") Shachter wrote:

> In your prayer book (unless your prayer book contains, e.g.,
> the text of the xalitza ceremony) the only thing that has to
> be recited in Hebrew is the priestly blessing, and this is
> probably the real reason why Ashkenazi congregations do not
> recite the priestly blessing, except on major festivals (the
> Ashkenazi rabbis were probably unable to suppress the
> recitation completely).

Two questions:

1) Why the "e.g."? Are there other examples? By my recollections, Chalitza and Birkas Kohanim are the only two things that must be said in Lashon Hakodesh.

2) I had not previously heard of this as the reason for non-recital of the
Birkas Kohanim among Ashkenazim. It sounds reasonable enough, but I'm
wondering: Is it just your own guess, or do you have sources who suggest
this?

Akiva Miller


____________________________________________________________
Fast, Secure, NetZero 4G Mobile Broadband. Try it.
http://www.netzero.net/?refcd=NZINTISP0512T4GOUT2

On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 12:09:03PM +0000, Akiva Miller wrote:
: 1) Why the "e.g."? Are there other examples? By my recollections,
: Chalitza and Birkas Kohanim are the only two things that must be said
: in Lashon Hakodesh.

Sotah 7:2 has a list:
    miqra bikurim
    chalitzah
    berakhos uqelalos (Bartenura: that were said on Har Gerizim and Har Eival)
    birkhas kohanim
    birkhas kohein gadol (Bartenura: lifnai velifnim, on YK)
    parashas hamelekh (Bartenura: at Haqheil)
    egla arufah
    the speech of the mashuach milkhamah ("Shema Yisrael arem qerovim
        hayom...")

Which apply bizman hazeh?

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Despair is the worst of ailments. No worries
mi...@aishdas.org        are justified except: "Why am I so worried?"
http://www.aishdas.org                         - Rav Yisrael Salanter
Fax: (270) 514-1507

Link: http://rabbipruzansky.com/2012/10/12/the-three-ply-cord/ (sent via
Shareaholic)

----


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The Three-Ply Cord
Posted on October 12, 2012 | 7 Comments
King Solomon stated in his wisdom ?Two are better than one, for they get a
greater return for their effort.? But three are even better, ?for the
three-ply cord is not easily severed? (Kohelet 4:9,12). The Midrash
(Kohelet Raba 4) interprets this as applicable to family continuity: ?R.
Zi?era said that a family of scholars will produce scholars, and a family
of Bnai Torah will produce Bnai Torah, and wealth will beget wealth, ?for
the three-ply cord is not easily severed.?? One sage asked: didn?t a well
known family lose their wealth? To which R. Zi?era responded: ?Did I say
?the three-ply cord is never severed?? I said ?for the three-ply cord is
not easily severed.?  But why should a three-ply cord ? tough and durable ?
ever be severed?

A new unpublished study recently brought to my attention has challenging
implications for the Torah world ? to wit, that 50% of the graduates of
Modern Orthodox high schools are no longer Shabbat or Kashrut observant
within two years of their graduation. Another study from last year reported
the not-quite-shocking news that 25% of those graduates who attend secular
colleges assimilate during college and completely abandon Torah and mitzvot.

Those are frightening statistics that should cause us all to shudder.
Perhaps the numbers are less dire than they seem on the surface. For sure,
a not-insignificant percentage of students enter those high schools already
lacking in Shabbat observance ? their families are not observant ? and they
leave the same way. Other teens already fall off the derech while in high
school ? a more exacting study would measure their observance level at
graduation and then two years later. But, undoubtedly, many slide off the
path of Torah as soon as they gain a modicum of autonomy. Just as certain,
there are some who return to Torah years later as well.

What are we missing? What are we lacking? What are we failing to provide
them after spending hundreds of thousands of dollars per child on their
Jewish education? What is going wrong? And how can it be rectified?

It needs to be stated that parents who look to blame the schools, the
shuls, the youth groups, the Rabbis, the teachers, and/or the greater
community are looking in the wrong place. They should start by looking in
the mirror. That should be obvious, because parents have the primary
obligation of educating their children ? ?you shall teach [these words] to
your children to speak of them?? (Devarim 11:19). Even if parents delegate
this task, they still remain primarily responsible. And of course, the
general disclaimer always pertains in these matters: there are perfect
parents whose kids go off the derech and horrendous parents (absolute
scoundrels) whose children are righteous and scholarly. Even such
illustrious people as Yitzchak and Rivka produced one of each ? a tzadik
and a scoundrel. There is no panacea, and we can only talk about the
majority. There will always be exceptions.

To me, it all goes back to basics ? not just what the parents say, but what
parents say and do. The ?chut hameshulash? ? the ?three-ply cord? of our
world is Torah study, prayer and Shabbat ? and in no particular order.
Children who see their parents prioritize shul ? not once or twice a week,
but every day ? see shul as a value. Children who see their parents attend
shul once a week and primarily socialize and converse while there see shul
as a place to meet their friends. When older, they can just bypass the
middleman and just go straight to their friends.

Similarly, children who see parents learning Torah during their leisure
time perceive learning as a value. Children whose Shabbat is different than
the other days of the week ? the Shabbat table is different, the
conversation is laden with talk of Torah, ideas, values, and zemirot
instead of idle chitchat, sports, and gossip ? experience a different
Shabbat. It?s just a different day. When Shabbat is not observed as a
different day, it stops being a different day.

I have noticed that there are teens who simply do not daven ? they will
converse the whole time ? and invariably they are the children of fathers
who themselves don?t stop talking in shul. Children who roam the halls of
the synagogue Shabbat morning are invariably the offspring of parents who
roam the halls. Like father, like son.

And something else: too many teenagers have absolutely no concept of
?Bigdei Shabbat? ? the obligation to wear special clothing on Shabbat. I am
not even referring to wearing ties and jackets, although that is clearly
perceived as dignified dress in America. Many teens come to shul dressed in
weekday clothing but even on the lower end of what might be called ?school
casual.? How do parents not impress on their children from their earliest
youth with the idea of ?Shabbat clothing?? That is part of what makes
Shabbat different. Every child ? girl or boy ? should have clothing
specially designated for Shabbat, ideally a jacket and tie for boys and a
nice dress for girls. At age five, I put on a suit and tie for Shabbat, and
never looked back. How are children allowed to leave the house on Shabbat
as if it is a Sunday ? whether it is to attend shul in the morning or meet
their friends in the afternoon?

Are we then surprised when Shabbat for them becomes ?not Shabbat?? Their
whole experience of Shabbat is being told what they can?t do, incarcerated
for two hours in the morning in a place where they don?t want to be, to
then eat a meal that might be devoid of spiritual substance, the day
salvaged only when they meet their friends who have had similar
experiences. But if Shabbat is not a different day, then apparently the
moment the child gains his independence, or a moment or two after that, his
Shabbat becomes Saturday, which, combined with Sunday and Friday night,
makes for a long, fun and enjoyable weekend. The fifteen year old who walks
around the streets Shabbat afternoon in shorts and sneakers will likely not
be observing Shabbat when he is twenty. But no one will make the connection
then ? so make it now.

?For the three-ply cord is not easily severed.? The three-ply cord of
Torah, tefila and Shabbat is not easily undone. The survey is not as
surprising as is the persistent reluctance to draw the obvious conclusions
and instead cast a wide net looking for the suspects. George Orwell
famously wrote that ?to see what is in front of one?s nose needs a constant
struggle.? The good news is that we need not look very far for solutions.
If the parent wants the child to learn Torah, then the parent should learn
Torah. If the parent wants the child to daven, then the parent should
daven. If the parent wants the child to enjoy Shabbat as a holy, special
day, then the parent should make Shabbat into a holy, special day.

Perhaps there is an even more important idea. The Midrash (ibid) also
states: ?two are better than one ? that is, a man and his wife who are
better than each alone, but the ?third cord? (that fortifies the first two)
is G-d who provides them with children.?

Parents have to convey to their children beginning in infancy a sense of
G-d?s immanence, a sense of the godly in life, and a Jewish identity that
is rooted in the Torah that Moshe commanded us. Children should be
inculcated beginning in infancy that what they do matters before G-d, and
that mitzvot are not just performances but points of connection to the
Creator. When parents enlist G-d in their parenting ? not as the Source of
all guilt and dire punishment, but as the Source of ?the heritage of the
congregation of Yaakov,? then ?the three-ply cord is not easily severed.?
 Anything can happen. There are no guarantees in life, and each person is
endowed with free choice. But ?the three-ply cord is not easily severed.?

We must reduce our expectations to the simple ? what we want for our
children, our greatest priority ? is the summation of our lives: not that
they should necessarily attend Columbia, Harvard or Yale, or become
doctors, lawyers, rabbis, or businessmen, but rather ?the sum of the
matter, when all has been considered, is to fear G-d and keep His
commandments?? (Kohelet 12:13). When we speak with pride not of ?my son the
doctor? or ?my daughter the lawyer? but find our true pride in ?my son the
G-d-fearing Jew? and ?my daughter the Shomeret Mitzvot,? then we and they
will be prepared for the great era ahead, when G-d?s name will be made
great and exalted before the nations.



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7 RESPONSES TO THE THREE-PLY CORD

tzorichiyun | October 14, 2012 at 5:40 am | Reply
Very nice.

Mr. Cohen | October 14, 2012 at 5:13 pm | Reply
Rabbi Pruzansky said:

??25% of those graduates who attend secular colleges assimilate during
college and completely abandon Torah and mitzvot.?

Modern Orthodox parents should encourage their children to NOT attend
sleep-away colleges. Instead, Modern Orthodox students should attend
college near home, so they can and continue to live with parents or
Orthodox roommates until marriage.

Yair | October 16, 2012 at 2:20 pm | Reply
For those of us interested in following up, whose unpublished study are you
citing?
Thanks.

Rabbi | October 17, 2012 at 12:52 am | Reply
I can?t say. It was unpublished for a reason.
- RSP

Mr. Cohen | October 18, 2012 at 10:15 pm | Reply
Modern Orthodox parents should encourage their children to attend Jewish
colleges, like YU and Touro.

Jack Berlin | October 19, 2012 at 4:39 pm | Reply
Rabbi. The US is in tough economic shape with a very debt/gdp ratio in part
due to reckless and inefficient spending. You focus on parents in your
solution to a Yeshiva Day school issue you highlight. What is the religious
objective of todays modern orthodox institution? You mention yiras shamayim
as a primary objective for us as a nation. If the primary goal is achieved
through parents, why is our generation bankrupting itself with
reckless/inefficient spending on a broken yeshiva system ? Is there a
better model? Perhaps the economic resources of the community should be
spent on strengthening the emunah of the parent body and the ?trickle down?
effect will be engaged!

Srully Epstein | October 23, 2012 at 2:09 pm | Reply
@Jack Berlin,

Yeshivos are expensive, true, but they are not broken. Jewish children get
a terrific education today, and their parents? spending and sacrifice for
that education should not be described as ?reckless? or ?inefficient.?

The good rabbis point is, I believe, that all this wonderful education
faces an uphill battle if parents don?t demonstrate in the home the values
that their children are learning in the yeshiva. Torah is a living
experience, not at academic pursuit.

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