Avodah Mailing List

Volume 04 : Number 451

Monday, March 20 2000

• Re: Re[2]: Proper Jewish Fashion
• Re: Proper Jewish Fashion
• Re: ve-laharog
• Re: Re[2]: How can we condemn the church if we do not live up to
• Re: Mordochai and More; medical alert
• Re: Proper Jewish Fashion - Purim Alert
• Re: Sheker VeChazav
• Re: Bnei Brak
• Re: So why didn't Morde[o?]chai bow down to Haman?
• Re: Mordochai and More; medical alert
• (Fwd) Tefillin - HASHAVAS AVEIDAH DONE
• Re: Mordochai and More; medical alert
• Purim Alert
• Subject: Re: Moshe Rabbeinu
• Re: How can we condemn the church if we do not live up to at least the same standard

In a message dated 3/20/00 11:30:33 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
richard_wolpoe@ibi.com writes:

> IIRC the Baal haTanya makes a three-ring circle (almost a pun)
>  
>  on Yisroel Oraisso v'kudhsa brich hu = chad hu

It's taken from the Zohar "Tlas Kishrin Miskashra'an Da Bda Yisroel Oireisa 
Vkudshe Brich Hu".

Purim Someiach!

Yitzchok Zirkind

On Mon, Mar 20, 2000 at 11:38:31AM -0500, Stein, Aryeh E. wrote:
> According to R' SZ Auerbach, the reason for wearing a yarmulka is "2)
> malbush ivri/yehudi" (and it was the derech of gentile men (but not gentile
> women) to be bareheaded.

How do women follow this, then, especially now that long skirts are in
fashion?  I would hate to think that women are specifically chiyuv in 
long denim skirts.  :)
 
> If the reason was "1) Kisuy Rosh [i.e., yiras shomayim]", then all females
> (including single women/girls) should wear a yarmulka.

Actually, R Ovadiah Yosef holds this way (not kipah, but a head
covering, at least during davening, etc.)

Janet

On Mon, Mar 20, 2000 at 12:12:19PM -0500, Yzkd@aol.com wrote:
: Actualy behind the smiley I had in mind what Poskim write that if one will 
: lose his Yerei Cheit one should not imbibe.

Last year I accidentally built a chazakah of sending out a d'var Torah
with my Shalach Manos instead of a simple "From the Bergers" card. This
year's was on "ad dilo yada".

One thing I noted was that the Rama doesn't take a position between the
KolBo's notion of drinking until happy, and the Maharil's suggestion (among
others in the Maharil) of drinking until one falls asleep. However, the
Rama throws in an "Echad hamarbeh vi'echad hamam'it, ubilvad sheyichavein
libo laShamayim". Which, ironically, places a cap on the marbeh. Too much
wine, and kavannah isn't an option.

FWIW, after citing various rishonim and poskim on what to do lihalachah, I
suggest a reason for the practice.

First, note that it's "ad dilo yada bein *arur Haman* li*varuch Mordechai*."
Not until being to unable to distinguish between evil and good, but between
avoiding evil and pursuing good.

Are the two even different? Does evil exist, or is it a kind of vacuum, an
absense of good? If the former, then it's possible to argue that the two
are different. If the latter, than cursing evil is the same as blessing good.

However, all this philosophizing requires sobriety. It's much more complex
than say computing the gematrios of "arur Haman" and "baruch Mordechai"
(both 502).

I therefore want to suggest that Rava is saying that Purim is a day to
celebrate with Emunah Peshutah, not Da'as Amukah.

-mi

-- 
Micha Berger (973) 916-0287          MMG"H for 19-Mar-00: Cohen, Tzav
micha@aishdas.org                                         A"H 
http://www.aishdas.org                                    Rosh-Hashanah 11b
For a mitzvah is a lamp, and the Torah its light.         Melachim-II 22

On 20 Mar 00, at 9:59, richard_wolpoe@ibi.com wrote:
:> im ein ani li mi li!
:> uch'sheani leatzmi - ma ani?

On Mon, Mar 20, 2000 at 06:30:37PM +0200, Carl M. Sherer wrote:
: I'm not sure what you're getting at. I was simply saying that our 
: responsibilities towards fellow Jews come before others. 

I think he's referring to R' Shimon Shkup's vort on these words. Of the
expanding circle that is "ani", the impoverished Jews of your own neighborhood
are closer to "atzmi" than those starving people in Calcutta.

It gives a motivation to the din of "aniyei ircha".

-mi

-- 
Micha Berger (973) 916-0287          MMG"H for 19-Mar-00: Cohen, Tzav
micha@aishdas.org                                         A"H 
http://www.aishdas.org                                    Rosh-Hashanah 11b
For a mitzvah is a lamp, and the Torah its light.         Melachim-II 22

On Mon, Mar 20, 2000 at 06:48:34PM +0200, Carl M. Sherer wrote:
:> R' Blum credits Soncino with the publication in Ashkenaz of chumashim
:> that place aliyos in the Sepharadi locations. Normally this isn't an
:> issue -- except for parashas Ha'azinu. 

: In Truma there are two ways of placing Shlishi (one after the 
: Shulchan and one after the Menorah). ...

I understood him to be speaking wholesale -- that numerous stops that we
place, perhaps the vast majority (depending upon the size of the machlokes)
are not placed according to Ashkenazi masorah. However, only in Ha'azinu is it
a major issue lihalachah.

-mi

-- 
Micha Berger (973) 916-0287          MMG"H for 19-Mar-00: Cohen, Tzav
micha@aishdas.org                                         A"H 
http://www.aishdas.org                                    Rosh-Hashanah 11b
For a mitzvah is a lamp, and the Torah its light.         Melachim-II 22

On Mon, Mar 20, 2000 at 11:48:53AM -0500, richard_wolpoe@ibi.com wrote:
: funny quote in Bentwich's bio of Schechter
: "if Shechter goes on ranting one more time about Catholic Israel - I am going
: to start Protestant Israel!"

I wondered if he meant Catholic as opposed to Orthodox... <grin>

-mi

-- 
Micha Berger (973) 916-0287          MMG"H for 19-Mar-00: Cohen, Tzav
micha@aishdas.org                                         A"H 
http://www.aishdas.org                                    Rosh-Hashanah 11b
For a mitzvah is a lamp, and the Torah its light.         Melachim-II 22

On 20 Mar 00, at 7:47, Harry Maryles wrote:

> 
> Sheker VeChazav... what a colorful expression. I use
> it all the time myself. It really emotes.

Glad you like it....

> > Suffice it to say that the cities that
> > are going broke these 
> > days are Beit Shean, Sderot, Netivot and so on. Most
> > of those 
> > cities have barely a Charedi (and certainly barely
> > an Ashkenazi 
> > Charedi) in site. 
> 
> Is there an implication in your dichotomy?

The implication is that cities going broke has nothing to do with 
whether or not they are Charedi.

> > AND
> > LASHON 
> > HARA which someone has the chutzpa to speak about 
> > YERUSHALAYIM IR HAKODESH. 
> > 
> > On 19 Mar 00, at 14:10, someone wrote:
> 
> That "someone" was me, HM!

Yerushalayim is referred to as Clilas Yofi. I was incredulous that 
someone could attack Yerushalayim for being anything other than 
a beautiful city. I would not trade the view out my window each 
morning, or the view out my shul window at hanetz (for you RMP:-) 
every morning for any other place in the world. 

I was trying to spare you the ignominy of having your words 
attributed to you, but since you insist....

> As I stated, Jerusalem still has a tax base. If there
> is a growing trend in Jerusalem toward attracting
> business and generating jobs, then I'm gratified to
> hear it.  

Parts of Har Hotzvim were already around when I made aliya in 
1991. Malcha has been open for about 4-5 years now. For 
someone who purports to keep current with what goes on here, you 
are very much behind the times.

I was merely  questioning if that is indeed
> the case. The Intel story, (despite your assertions
> about the reasons for their reloction, which may be
> part of the reason they left) is as I stated it.  It
> was published in a national Israeli newsmagazine.  

See RAA's post.

The
> statements about Intel breaking up a potentially
> growing Frum neighborhood are true.  

I can't figure out which one. Har Hotzvim is between Sanhedria 
Murchevet and Ramat Shlomo. I look out at it from shul every 
morning. If the reference was to Sanhedria Murchevet (which is 
literally right on top of Har Hotzvim - we are across the road), then I 
guess it got "broken up" anyway regardless of Intel.

I remember
> reading quotes by Charedi members of city hall citing
> this as the primary reasons for all the protests
> against Intel at the time. 

Funny, I LIVE here and I don't recall a single protest against Intel. 
In fact, Intel has a facility in Jerusalem, although they did take the 
big semiconductor manufacturing plant to Kiryat Gat.

Wouldn't it have an econmic
> boon to Jerusalem to have computer giant Intel located
> there?  

In Yerushalayim we think about things other than money....

Is  Holocaust survivor and Intel founder/CEO,
> Andy Grove such a Rasha? I can't believe an
> arrangement couldn't be worked out whereby there would
> be no Chilul Shabbos. 

I never said Grove was a Rasha. I know nothing about the man, and 
I try not to label people I know nothing about. But given that one of 
their conditions was that the plant operate in three shifts, seven 
days a week, I don't see what arrangement could be worked out 
that would NOT involve Chilul Shabbos. Unless there's some new 
heter I don't know about. 

> > 
> > But even if all of this was not true - isn't our
> > goal in life supposed to 
> > be learning Torah? Isn't Torah paramount? Baruch
> > Hashem we have 
> > Zevulun's to support the Yissochor's in
> > Yerushalayim. But if chas 
> > v'shalom we didn't, would that be a reason to
> > condemn?
> 
> Yes, if it put's an unfair burdon on the rest of
> society and creates a Chilul Hashem in the proccess.

What you still don't understand, because you don't live here, is that 
to much of Chiloni society ANYONE learning Torah is too much. 
Learning Torah is a "waste of time" because it is not "economically 
productive." You should hear our brilliant Minister of Finance 
(generally not thought of as one of the worst of the anti-Charedi) go 
on and on about how the Charedim aren't economically productive 
enough. Of course he himself still can't figure out how to impose a 
capital gains tax (so we could cut income taxes) after six years on 
the job. But that's another topic for another list.

> Zevuluns have to be voluntary. 

If the government gives billions of Shekels to everything else, then 
why not to Torah learning? ANY amount that Yeshivaleit here 
receive from the government pales in comparison to the money 
(and land) which the government gives to the Kibbutzim. During the 
Rabin government, the Kibbutzim received 8 BILLION shekels in 
subsidies, not counting having all their loans (you didn't think they 
PAID for all those olympic size swimming pools did you?) 
restructured. Now they are busy getting "hafsharat karkaot," which 
means that the government gives them the land they have "rented" 
for the last fifty years, and they build luxury condominiums on it 
and sell them to city folks who would like a place in the country at 
exorbitant prices. Not a bad deal for some people, is it? And that's 
without even considering how much extra we pay for fruit, 
vegetables and dairy products because of the government-enforced 
monopoly that only permits selling those things through Tnuva, 
which is owned by the Kibbutzim. 

I recently heard a story about a Bnei Akiva snif right here in 
Yerushalayim that has *$4500* LEFT OVER in its budget (which 
by the way comes from the government) this year, and is debating 
whether to put wall to wall carpeting in the snif or to put in central 
air conditioning.

And you complain about how much money the Charedim get?

Do we really need to
> see the only shomer shabbos city in Israel become a
> garbage dump?

Cities cannot levy taxes on their own. The central government 
dictates how much they can levy (per square meter of area in an 
apartment), and who is exempted from paying all or a portion of the 
property tax (arnona). And it isn't just some Charedim who are 
exempt. Anyone over 65 has a 90 or 100% exemption regardless of 
income. Guess what Jerusalem is full of? Yup. Retirees. Maybe 
you think we should kick all of them out too....

Anyone who is adjudged diabled as a result of their army service is 
exempt (and while some people truly are disabled R"L, many 
others are perfectly capable of functioning and do function and hold 
down high paying jobs) regardless of income. So the fact that there 
may be garbage on the streets in Yerushalayim or Bnei Brak may 
not be entirely caused by the percentage of people who learn in 
Kollel.

> > > the now powerful Charedi element in the city's
> > > government has allowed some dwellings to be built
> > out
> > > of cheaper materials. 
> 
> > First of all, this is total and complete sheker. The
> > only place I know 
> > of where housing has been built out of anything
> > other than 
> > Jerusalem Stone in the last ten years was extensions
> > to the 
> > Shmuel HaNavi public housing 
> 
> Sheker or not Sheker... You be then judge.
> 
> Again,  The statement that the physical beauty of
> Jerusalem Stone is to be sacrificed in the name of
> affordable housing for Avrechim (or words to that
> effect) was a quote I read in the name of one opf the
> Charedi members of city hall.  I believe it was R.
> Meir Porush.  So If what I said was Sheker VeChazeh,
> so was  R. Meir Porush's (I believe) statement.

Tell me somewhere it has been done. I haven't seen it, unless you 
count the tenements on Shmuel HaNavi and Shimon HaTzadik 
which were built in the 60's out of materials other than Jerusalem 
stone (and have now been extended), and which are not populated 
entirely by Yeshivaleit.

> But, who says that you can't enjoy physical beauty?

Who says physical beauty is anything other than in the eye of the 
beholder? Who says that having every building in the city look 
identical is beautiful? Personally, I'd rather that the buildings didn't 
look identical.

> Where is it written that it doesn't matter what
> Jerusalem looks like.  Would you prefer it looked like
> a slum, as long as there was Torah there? 

If the choice was between Torah and looking like a slum, I would 
choose Torah every time. But I don't think that's the choice.

"DON'T bring
> it here"...you say?  

Don't bring us a value system that places priority on physical 
beauty and wealth. We are all working to teach our kids that there 
are more important things in life.

-- Carl


Carl M. Sherer, Adv.
Silber, Schottenfels, Gerber & Sherer
Telephone 972-2-625-7751
Fax 972-2-625-0461
mailto:cmsherer@ssgslaw.co.il
mailto:sherer@actcom.co.il

Please daven and learn for a Refuah Shleima for my son,
Baruch Yosef ben Adina Batya among the sick of Israel.
Thank you very much.

On 20 Mar 00, at 6:50, Harry Maryles wrote:

 The
> government subsidies aren't enough. You need to
> generate a certain amount of revenue from your own
> city tax base. 

The central government determines how much each city can 
collect in taxes. The cities have very little power to change it.

Otherwise your share of the tax burdon
> is unequal to the rest of society's. Why should Bnei
> Brak get a larger share of the National tax revenue
> than, say, Ramat Aviv? 

Because people in Bnei Brak make a fraction of what people in 
Ramat Aviv make. Why do children of teachers and social workers 
pay less in tuition in the fruhm schools than children of doctors and 
lawyers? Because otherwise the children of the teachers and the 
social workers would not be able to go to school, and we wouldn't 
have any more teachers and social workers. Or maybe you would 
propose that fruhm schools ought to throw out anyone who cannot 
pay full tuition....

Equity demands that the
> greatest contributors to the tax pie should be the
> greatest recipients.

Actually, no. Equity demands nothing of the sort. Any sort of tax is 
bound to be redistributive. Someone who is making $500K per year 
with a child and a dog does not need welfare. Someone who is 
making $30K a year with five children does. Society recognizes 
that it is in its best interests not to have its citizens roaming the 
street looking for food scraps in garbage bins R"L. So it taxes the 
rich by taking away some of the money that they do not need for 
vital living expenses and gives it to the poor so that they can meet 
their vital living expenses.

That's not communism either. That's how your beloved United 
States of America works too.

-- Carl


Carl M. Sherer, Adv.
Silber, Schottenfels, Gerber & Sherer
Telephone 972-2-625-7751
Fax 972-2-625-0461
mailto:cmsherer@ssgslaw.co.il
mailto:sherer@actcom.co.il

Please daven and learn for a Refuah Shleima for my son,
Baruch Yosef ben Adina Batya among the sick of Israel.
Thank you very much.

After being instructed from the pulpit on Shabbat that Mordechai's
refusal to bow down to Haman represents the ideal standard that
should govern our relationship with the gentiles, I thought that I
would inquire why it was that Mordechai felt compelled to violate 
the command of his temporal sovereign to bow down to Haman.  

Clearly, it could not be that there is any halakhic problem in 
bowing down to a human being.  Tanakh is full of account of 
yeraim and shlaimim bowing down not only to other individuals 
but to heathens and idolators.  So why not bow down to Haman?

My question apparently troubled Chazal as well, because they 
seem to have gone to dihkei dihukim to rationalize Mordechai's 
conduct as being based on some issue of avodah zarah as 
opposed to mere stiff-neckedness and obstinacy as one might
infer from a superficial reading of the megilah.  

If I recall correctly,there are two opinions.  One that Haman 
wore an idolatrous figure on his garment and Mordechai did not 
want to appear to be bowing down to idolatrous figure.  But if 
his intention were only to bow down to Haman and not to the 
idolatrous figure, would it not have been permissible to bow 
down to Haman, especially since, given the public directive of 
the king to bow down to Haman, no one would have 
misconstrued  Mordechai's genuflection as an idolatrous act.  I 
may not be recalling the relevant sugya or sugyot here, so 
perhaps this explanation of Mordechai's unwillingness to bow 
down to Haman is more persuasive than it seems.  If so, I
would be grateful for clarification.

The other opinion is that Haman transformed himself into an
object of worship, so that to bow down to him would have 
been an act of avodah zarah.  This seems preposterous.  
What self-respecting absolute despot (which Ahasuerosh
certainly was) would tolerate his minister transforming himself 
into a deity.  Haman would not have lasted 15 minutes holding 
himself out as a deity in the Persian court.  Or are we supposed 
to believe that only Mordechai was privy to the knowledge that 
Haman believed himself to be a deity?  

Of course the best one is the one that my daughter told me
in the name of her fifth-grade teacher, which is that earlier
in the careers, Mordechai and Haman had both been 
generals and Haman had foolishly squandered all his 
supplies or money or something like that and, in desparation,
came to Mordechai to beg him to rescue him, which
Mordechai did, but only on the condition that Haman would
become his (secret) slave.  Thus, years later, Mordechai 
refused to bow down to Haman, because he knew that
Haman was (really) his slave and would you bow down
to your slave?  Case closed.

Anyway, forget about the missing two hundred years,
can someone just explain to me why Mordechai did not
bow down to Haman?

David Glasner
dglasner@ftc.gov

our esteemed listemperor RMB writes:  <according to R' Matis Blum (author
of "Torah Loda'as") our "normal chumashim" are products of the fact that
the printing house in Soncino printed the chumash first, which means
that all subsequent chumashim were compiled in comparison to a Sepharadi
one. : But that was : all before the ashqenazim threw in the towel and
essentially adopted : the sephardi girso'os for their torahs.>

an interesting conjecture, but it simply can't be true (i.e. R'Blum's
suggestion, not RMB's doubtless faithful reconstruction. perhaps he has
a weakness for RMB pishotim)- at least as an explanation ligabei the
fundamental problem. the simple counterexample is the spelling of pitzuoh
dacoh in divorim. many comfortably post-soncino ashqenazi editions of
the torah continued to spell it with an aleph.  thus the letteris edition
- very popular over the last hundred years - still spelled dacoh with
an aleph. 

Mechy Frankel                   W: (703) 588-7424
frankemj@acq.osd.mil            H: (703) 325-1277
michael.frankel@dtra.mil

___________________________________________________________________
To get your own FREE ZDNet Onebox - FREE voicemail, email, and fax,
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------- Forwarded message follows -------
Date sent:      	Mon, 20 Mar 2000 12:36:48 -0500
From:           	"Jeff Geizhals"
Subject:        	Tefillin - HASHAVAS AVEIDAH DONE
To:             	

We just got a call from the owner. Tizku LeMitzvos!

(In under 2 1/2 hours yet.)


Jeffrey Geizhals


------- End of forwarded message -------
Carl M. Sherer, Adv.
Silber, Schottenfels, Gerber & Sherer
Telephone 972-2-625-7751
Fax 972-2-625-0461
mailto:cmsherer@ssgslaw.co.il
mailto:sherer@actcom.co.il

Please daven and learn for a Refuah Shleima for my son,
Baruch Yosef ben Adina Batya among the sick of Israel.
Thank you very much.

On Mon, Mar 20, 2000 at 09:50:45AM -0800, Michael Frankel wrote:
: our esteemed listemperor RMB writes:  <according to R' Matis Blum (author
: of "Torah Loda'as") our "normal chumashim" are products of the fact that
: the printing house in Soncino printed the chumash first, which means
: that all subsequent chumashim were compiled in comparison to a Sepharadi
: one. 

So dar me.

: But that was all before the ashqenazim threw in the towel and
: essentially adopted  the sephardi girso'os for their torahs.>

I don't think I wrote this.

: an interesting conjecture, but it simply can't be true ...
:                               at least as an explanation ligabei the
: fundamental problem. the simple counterexample is the spelling of pitzuoh
: dacoh in divorim. many comfortably post-soncino ashqenazi editions of
: the torah continued to spell it with an aleph.

RMBlum suggested this only ligabbei aliyos. My assumtion is that what he
means is Ashkenazi chumash publishers relied on other printed texts to resolve
those issues that aren't available in the local aron kodesh. Bidavka aliyos,
not text.

-mi

-- 
Micha Berger (973) 916-0287          MMG"H for 19-Mar-00: Cohen, Tzav
micha@aishdas.org                                         A"H 
http://www.aishdas.org                                    Rosh-Hashanah 11b
For a mitzvah is a lamp, and the Torah its light.         Melachim-II 22

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Carl,

Given your response, I have this to say:

During the Holocaust, what was the chiyuv of the Church to save Jews?  More 
specifically, can't the Pope claim that he had no obligation to save Jews?  
Pope Pious can quote you by stating that his responsibilities to the 
billions of Catholics simply left him with no time to help a few million 
Jews.

Franklin Roosevelt will state that hey, we were coming off the depression, 
the USA simply could not exert the time or money to remove some Jews from 
the camps.

Carl, thanks so much, until your posting, I was never able to be dan lecaf 
zechut to the Pope and Roosevelt, now I am.  They were way too osek in their 
work to save Jews.

Happy purim,

Aviva and Eluzor Feinberg


On 20 Mar 00, at 9:59, richard_wolpoe@ibi.com wrote:

>im ein ani li mi li!
>
>uch'sheani leatzmi - ma ani?

I'm not sure what you're getting at. I was simply saying that our 
responsibilities towards fellow Jews come before others.


>From: "Carl M. Sherer" <cmsherer@ssgslaw.co.il>
>Reply-To: cmsherer@ssgslaw.co.il
>To: "aviva fee" <aviva613@hotmail.com>, avodah@aishdas.org
>Subject: Re: How can we condemn the church if we do not live up to at least 
>the same standard
>Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 22:32:16 +0200
>
>On 19 Mar 00, at 11:02, aviva fee wrote:
>
> > Hi Carl,
> >
> > ))))))))))))))
> > There's a fundamental difference. We as a people have never (AFAIK)
> > carried out a pogrom against anyone. The Church called for the
> > Crusades. Most of the pogroms against Jews that have been carried out
> > since then have been carried out in the name of the Church in one form
> > or another. ((((((((((((((((
> >
> > Did you read last week's haftorah? What do you call the attack against
> > Amalek?  In fact, we are all cursed since Saul did not finish the job
> > and let Agog live.
>
>Amalek was a special situation and it was most definitely provoked
>(unlike the numerous church attacks against us throughout the
>ages). Read the Malbim at the end of Ki Tetze or in 1 Shmuel 15.
>
> > But my main question is, and let me preface that I am not attempting
> > to be a melitz yoshar for the Holy See; but if we kevetch and whine
> > about how the church should have done more, etc., etc., should we as a
> > nation, should do at least a little more to stop the pogroms around
> > the world?
>
>In a word, no. We are nowhere near the size of the Catholic
>Church, nor are we anywhere near the size of any of the Protestant
>denominations nor of the Muslims for that matter. No one person or
>group speaks for all of us, as opposed to the Pope who DOES
>speak for Catholics worldwide. There are at least 200 families in
>my *neighborhood* who have trouble putting food on the table. I am
>going to worry about them before I worry about Sudan or
>Afghanistan or Bosnia or anyplace else, which is not my people
>and where my potential impact is minimal. Aniyei ircha kodmim.
>
> > What Amnesty International is doing (also not attempting to be a
> > melitz yoshar for them) should be what we, as klal yisroel are doing.
>
>Says who?
>
> > I would venture to state that at least a third of the frum populace
> > could not identify Khartoum on a map.  Yet there is a holocaust of
> > sorts going on there in the Sudan, anyone want to organize a protest?
>
>When Am Yisrael is unified in emuna in Hashem, then we can be
>an Ohr laGoyim. Until then, we have to work on ourselves first. I am
>more interested in organizing a demonstration against
>indoctrinating Jewish children with the "poetry" of Muhamed
>Darwish R"L than I am interested in organizing demonstrations
>about the Sudan.
>
> > We all remember the saying, (those of us over 40), if you are not part
> > of the solution, you are part of the problem.
>
>More nahrishkeit of the 60's. Where are all those people today?
>They're all part of the "Me" Generation, worried about nothing but
>their own wallets....
>
>-- Carl (over 40 thank you)
>
>
>Carl M. Sherer, Adv.
>Silber, Schottenfels, Gerber & Sherer
>Telephone 972-2-625-7751
>Fax 972-2-625-0461
>mailto:cmsherer@ssgslaw.co.il
>mailto:sherer@actcom.co.il
>
>Please daven and learn for a Refuah Shleima for my son,
>Baruch Yosef ben Adina Batya among the sick of Israel.
>Thank you very much.

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