Avodah Mailing List
Volume 04 : Number 235
Thursday, December 30 1999
Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 14:54:17 -0500
From: richard_wolpoe@ibi.com
Subject: Brisker Rav and his Nephew
<snip>
(Althogh I don't think the Brisker Rav approved of
his nephew but thats's another Post).
<snip>
Food for thought?
Perhaps.
HM<<
Ok Harry you have opened the proverbial pandora's box. <smile>
I have no first hand knowlege of the Brisker Rav's feeling towards his famous
nephew RYBS.
However, I saw first hand the extra-ordinary deference Rav Y. Gorelick - R.
Velvel's talmid muvhak - had for that famous nephew and it was immense. I sense
by inference that his rebbe - that is the Rav's uncle - shared at least SOME of
that reverence.
FWIW R. Gorelick was pretty much as anti-Zionist as R. Velvel yet he did not let
that disagreement undermine his kavod for the Rav.
Rich Wolpoe
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Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 13:59:02 -0600
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Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 22:00 +0200
From: BACKON@vms.huji.ac.il
Subject: re: Kollel and Gedolim
For a relatively recent (110 years) example, the ACHIEZER was already a
dayyan at age 24.
Josh
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Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 14:00:49 -0600
From: "Yosef Gavriel and Shoshanah M. Bechhofer" <sbechhof@casbah.acns.nwu.edu>
Subject: Re: Slap in the Face
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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RE: Slap in the Face (Baruch Goldstein)And, FWIW, I think that Rav in =
Flatbush needs what the Atwoods recommended today at the end of their =
e-mails, a reality check.
A "Tzaddik" is R' Aryeh Levin ("A Tzaddik in Our Time"). It degrades =
the word Tzaddik to bandy it about so much, al achas kamma v'kamma =
b'nidon didan.
I find it nothing short of extraordinary to say that anyone who dies =
doing what he/she thinks best for Klal Yisroel has died al kiddush =
Hashem. B"H there are no that many parallels our history provides, but =
the question here would be the contrary: Were there not the possible =
limud zechus that he was deranged, would we have to say that this =
individual died "al Chillul Hashem".
Yosef Gavriel Bechhofer
Cong. Bais Tefila, 3555 W. Peterson Ave., Chicago, IL 60659
http://www.aishdas.org/baistefila ygb@aishdas.org
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Stein, Aryeh E.=20
To: 'avodah@aishdas.org'=20
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 1999 1:40 PM
Subject: RE: Slap in the Face (Baruch Goldstein)
FWIW, on the Shabbos after Baruch Goldstein was killed I was in =
Flatbush and davened at the shul of a widely respected Posek (and =
author). During his drasha, this Rav spoke about the whole episode and =
referred to "Baruch Goldstein, Zeicher Tzadik L'vracha." He explained =
(I am paraphrasing) that, unless there was evidence to the contrary, we =
have to assume that BG "snapped," and since he died doing what he =
thought was best for Klal Yisroel, he died "al kiddush hashem." (I tend =
to agree, since, if we are able to "dan l'caf zchus," why shouldn't we?) =
On a related note, I have heard that R' Shach did not want to sign a =
letter strongly condemning BG's actions since this would cause pain to =
his widow (an isur d'oraisa). (Instead he signed a letter that was not =
worded too harshly.)
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>RE: Slap in the Face (Baruch Goldstein)</TITLE>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3DISO-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>And, FWIW, I think that Rav in Flatbush =
needs what=20
the Atwoods recommended today at the end of their e-mails, a =
reality=20
check.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>A "Tzaddik" is R' Aryeh Levin ("A =
Tzaddik in Our=20
Time"). It degrades the word Tzaddik to bandy it about so much, al =
achas=20
kamma v'kamma b'nidon didan.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I find it nothing short of =
extraordinary to say=20
that anyone who dies doing what he/she thinks best for Klal Yisroel has =
died al=20
kiddush Hashem. B"H there are no that many parallels our history =
provides, but=20
the question here would be the contrary: Were there not the possible =
limud=20
zechus that he was deranged, would we have to say that this individual =
died "al=20
Chillul Hashem".</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Yosef Gavriel Bechhofer<BR>Cong. Bais =
Tefila, 3555=20
W. Peterson Ave., Chicago, IL 60659<BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.aishdas.org/baistefila">http://www.aishdas.org/baistef=
ila</A> =20
<A href=3D"mailto:ygb@aishdas.org">ygb@aishdas.org</A></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A href=3D"mailto:aes@ll-f.com" title=3Daes@ll-f.com>Stein, Aryeh =
E.</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
href=3D"mailto:'avodah@aishdas.org'"=20
title=3Davodah@aishdas.org>'avodah@aishdas.org'</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, December 30, =
1999 1:40=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: Slap in the Face =
(Baruch=20
Goldstein)</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<P><FONT size=3D2>FWIW, on the Shabbos after Baruch Goldstein was =
killed I was=20
in Flatbush and davened at the shul of a widely respected Posek (and=20
author). During his drasha, this Rav spoke about the whole =
episode and=20
referred to "Baruch Goldstein, Zeicher Tzadik L'vracha." He =
explained (I=20
am paraphrasing) that, unless there was evidence to the contrary, we =
have to=20
assume that BG "snapped," and since he died doing what he thought was =
best for=20
Klal Yisroel, he died "al kiddush hashem." (I tend to agree, =
since, if=20
we are able to "dan l'caf zchus," why shouldn't we?) </FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3D2>On a related note, I have heard that R' Shach did =
not want to=20
sign a letter strongly condemning BG's actions since this would cause =
pain to=20
his widow (an isur d'oraisa). (Instead he signed a letter that =
was not=20
worded too harshly.)</FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_0016_01BF52CE.471BAD40--
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Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 22:13 +0200
From: BACKON@vms.huji.ac.il
Subject: re: Slap in the Face
There is strong evidence that Dr. Baruch Goldstein did NOT (repeat, NOT)
shoot the bullets that killed the Arabs in Hevron. As someone who has
the classified autopsy report, hospital admission records, and operative
reports on Rabin, which show definitely that Rabin was murdered by a
bullet *entrance* wound in the chest and abdomen; and since the same
team of the Shabak was involved in the incident in Hevron with Goldstein,
there is a very strong probability that Goldstein was framed. And in case
there are any doubters, those in Jerusalem who want to see the evidence
on Rabin are welcome to peruse the medical material.
Josh
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Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 12:20:50 PST
From: "Alan Davidson" <perzvi@hotmail.com>
Subject: Academic Scholarship among Orthodox Jews
Richard: If you talk to yeshiva drop-outs the over-emphasis on shas (versus
learning other equally valuable seforim) is one of their main criticisms of
the yeshiva system -- (it also gives some validity to the early chassidishe
derechs which also pushed shas to the background).
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 15:28:34 -0500
From: Gershon Dubin <gershon.dubin@juno.com>
Subject: Bes Din
> Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 09:58:06 -0500
> From: "Daniel B. Schwartz" <SCHWARTZESQ@WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
> Subject: Re: Bes Din (2)
<<I have not said that there are no honest dayanim. In fact I know of at
least one honest mesader Gittin in New York (albeit he is not a vert
powerful force in the rabbinic world). There are alsoe certain "private"
Batei Din, which are reliable, but they limit their jurisdiction to
members of their kehilot only and do not take cases from outside. What I
have said is that on the whole, Beth Din is a morally defunct
institution.>>
Actually, saying that there is one honest, not very influential,
mesader gittin is fairly close to saying there are none. You have also
not admitted to any honest batei din.
I therefore repeat my question to you: Mr. Klagsbrun and you have first
hand knowledge of this "morally defunct" institution which you choose not
to share with the rest of us. How do you propose that a groundswell of
public outrage arise-by soliciting or listening to people who **don't**
have factual information?
Gershon
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Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 16:07:37 -0500 (EST)
From: Shalom Carmy <carmy@ymail.yu.edu>
Subject: academic freedom
> There was an extensive debate on this issue in the early volumes of
> the Torah UMadda Journal between Rabbi Parness and Berger/Kaplan
See also my "Freedom of Inquiry: a Common Sense Perspective" in Torah
Umadda Journal 3.
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Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 15:07:42 -0600
From: Micha Berger <micha@aishdas.org>
Subject: Millenial gematria
Rich Wolpoe sent me the following info in a GIF, and asked for Rabbinic
feedback.
Do the Gematria of:
Yom 45
K"G 23
Teves 411
shinas 750
TSh"S 760
This of course is the Hebre date of: Saturday 01/01/2000
The Gematria interestingly is 2000.
How cool is that???? Shanah Tovah!!!
I find it interesting that "yom" and "shenas" were included, but the hei
for 5,000 wasn't. IOW, there may be more degrees of freedom than it appears.
It still is intriguing, though.
Also possibly worth noting: this 9 b'Av will be 1930 years since churban
Bayis Sheini. Add 70 years for Galus Bavel (however it is the nevu'ah intended
those years to be counted), and you get 2,000 years total of no bayis.
-mi
--
Micha Berger (973) 916-0287 MMG"H for 30-Dec-99: Chamishi, Shemos
micha@aishdas.org A"H
http://www.aishdas.org Pisachim 91b
For a mitzvah is a lamp, and the Torah its light.
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Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 16:19:50 -0500
From: "Daniel B. Schwartz" <SCHWARTZESQ@WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Subject: Re: Bes Din
Obtain written, signed waivers from dayanim that they will hold me harmless
from any liability arising from my disclosing their wrong doings, and I will
be glad to provide an earful of information. While I do battle with batei
din on behalf of my clients, I am well aware of their power. One dayan
asked who my rav was as he wished to complain about me to him. I gladly
gave the name and suggested that when he speak with my rav he tell him that
Daniel Schwartz, the Vice President of the schul and one of the trustees who
very enthusiastically backed his candidacy for the position is who the dayan
is talking about. Dayanim have threatened to have my children expelled from
yeshiva because of my law practice (when I told them I don't have children
yet, they threatened that they would ostracize them from yeshivot).
Fortunately, I will probably send my children to very modern day schools
where those rabbis have no influence. Dayanim will very gladly sue someone
civilly to protect their honor. I hear say that one such suit is about to
commence after the new year. I will not take that risk.
----- Original Message -----
From: Gershon Dubin <gershon.dubin@juno.com>
To: <avodah@aishdas.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 1999 3:28 PM
Subject: Bes Din
> > Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 09:58:06 -0500
> > From: "Daniel B. Schwartz" <SCHWARTZESQ@WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
> > Subject: Re: Bes Din (2)
>
> <<I have not said that there are no honest dayanim. In fact I know of at
> least one honest mesader Gittin in New York (albeit he is not a vert
> powerful force in the rabbinic world). There are alsoe certain "private"
> Batei Din, which are reliable, but they limit their jurisdiction to
> members of their kehilot only and do not take cases from outside. What I
>
> have said is that on the whole, Beth Din is a morally defunct
> institution.>>
>
> Actually, saying that there is one honest, not very influential,
> mesader gittin is fairly close to saying there are none. You have also
> not admitted to any honest batei din.
>
> I therefore repeat my question to you: Mr. Klagsbrun and you have first
> hand knowledge of this "morally defunct" institution which you choose not
> to share with the rest of us. How do you propose that a groundswell of
> public outrage arise-by soliciting or listening to people who **don't**
> have factual information?
>
> Gershon
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Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 16:30:33 EST
From: DFinchPC@aol.com
Subject: Re: Academic scholarship by Orthodox Jews -- Heschel
In a message dated 12/30/99 1:55:14 PM US Central Standard Time,
clarke@HUGHESHUBBARD.COM writes:
<<<
>David Finch writes:
>R'Yosef Baer Soloveitchik studied at Berlin
>University, an utterly secular institution that at the time was becoming a
>hotbed of ideas far more anti-Jewish than any school R'Heschel ever
attended,
>or maybe even set foot into.
<<Frankly, I find this comparison absurd. The issue is not what was going
on generally at the institution, but what the individual in question was
studying. R. Soloveitchik was studying neo-Kantian philosophy; Heschel
was studying Wissenschaft.
>>>
The comparison is not quite as absurd as it might at first seem to be.
Neo-Kantian philosophy as taught at the major German universities during
R'Soloveitchik's era was swimming with such ideas as the "Kantian
imperative," which provided a sort of intellectual excuse to conservative
German scholars who, for any of a variety of reasons, weren't about to get in
the way of the growing Fascist movement. (See, e.g., Thomas Nevin's "Ernst
Junger and Germany: Into the Abyss, 1914-1945," published by Duke University
Press, 1996.) Obviously while attending Berlin University R'Soleveitchik
didn't read Kant in order to learn excuses for Nazism. One may fairly
presume, however, that he took courses along side other students who did. The
same could be said of R'Heschel's study of Wissenschaft. Some of R'Heschel's
fellow students might have appropriated (misappropriated?) Judische
Wissenschaft as an excuse to ignore halacha. Others, like R'Heschel himself,
did not.
<<<
> It's a shame, however, when the criticism
>reflects the labelling process, not honest thought.
<<Would you care to apologize for that comment?
>>>
Yes. I apologize, sincerely, because you mistook the comment as directed to
you. It wasn't. There's way much labelling going on when it comes to
evaluating R'Heschel's work (at least his "popular" work, with which I am
acquainted).
<<<
>You seem to equate the notion of "Torah-true" with a halakhic standard. Very
>Brisker of you!
<<Not equate. But I think that the term must include Halakhah. And I
would be flabbergasted to hear someone suggest otherwise.
>>>
I hold to my original argument. As you point out in the introduction to your
latest post, R'Heschel's interest was in prayer, not halacha. I had described
that interest as "spiritual" but nonetheless "Torah-true." To this you
replied: "Spirituality is difficult to measure against a halakhic standard.
Certainly Heschel's work as a whole does not, in my view, satisfy that
standard, but I think each person is entitled to make his or her own
evaluation of that point." In other words, you appear to be saying that the
standard to be satisfied in Jewish writing is halacha, even where the subject
at hand doesn't directly concern Jewish law or conduct. That's why I
characterized your point of view as Brisker-like. (R'Soloveitchik's small
handful of published works are agonizingly focussed on the exclusivity of
this standard. It's no insult to put your thoughts in his camp.)
This raises R'Shlomo Godick's post on this subject, in which cited a work
that criticized R'Heschel's theory of "Divine pathos" as an offshoot of
Protestant theology.
The notion of "Divine pathos," or a variant of it, appears repeatedly in
R'Heschel's popular work, including "The Prophets" and "G-d in Search of
Man." Because the concept tries to use words to describe the undescribable
experience of one's connection to HaShem (and vice versa) through prayer, it
is largely metaphorical and artistic. It's poetry, really. One might easily
compare such a metaphor to other depictions of Divine yearning from
Christianity to Buddhism to the San Francisco beat poets of the 1950s.
R'Heschel's prose poems, however, were entirely Judaic, and while innovative,
deeply traditional. They don't offend halacha any more than a painting by
Chagall offends halacha.
David Finch
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Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 16:30:47 EST
From: Tobrr111@aol.com
Subject: Re: Other Limudim
Lakewood Yeshiva has a beis Medrash with over 800 talmidim where the focus is
Learning "not typical" limudim such as Mikvaos, Eruvin, Choshen Mishpat etc.
with a heavy emphasis on Shulchan Aruch and Teshuvos.
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Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 16:40:35 EST
From: DFinchPC@aol.com
Subject: Re: Slap in the Face
In a message dated 12/30/99 2:03:02 PM US Central Standard Time,
sbechhof@casbah.acns.nwu.edu writes:
<< RE: Slap in the Face (Baruch Goldstein)And, FWIW, I think that Rav in
Flatbush needs what the Atwoods recommended today at the end of their
e-mails, a reality check.
A "Tzaddik" is R' Aryeh Levin ("A Tzaddik in Our Time"). It degrades the
word Tzaddik to bandy it about so much, al achas kamma v'kamma b'nidon didan.
I find it nothing short of extraordinary to say that anyone who dies doing
what he/she thinks best for Klal Yisroel has died al kiddush Hashem. B"H
there are no that many parallels our history provides, but the question here
would be the contrary: Were there not the possible limud zechus that he was
deranged, would we have to say that this individual died "al Chillul Hashem".
>>
The motive or intent of "doing what's best for Klal Yisroel" is not among
those that excuse or mitigate act of murder in. See Makkos ch. 2. To say that
a mass murderer was a "good person" before he went out and killed people is
to say only that he was good before he did something that made him bad. We
can say that of any felon. The term "derangement" is meaningless, at least in
American law. If a defendant is sane enough to form the requisite intent --
if he knew what he was doing -- then his psychic confusion will not get him
off the hook. I'll bet that true in Torah as well. Anyhow, a pious Jew who
mass murders Arabs is "deranged"; a devout Arab who mass murders Jews is a
"&%$! Terrorist."
David Finch
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Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 13:43:53 -0800 (PST)
From: Harry Maryles <hmaryles@yahoo.com>
Subject: R. Isser Zalmen, the CI, and the Brisker Rav
I have just been informed in a private e-mail by
someone who was learning in Eretz Israel at the time
that the CI predeceased R. Isser Zalmen by one month.
I apologize to the list for that error. But I am
virtually certain that R. Sherman told the story the
way I repeated here. I could be wrong... it was about
ten years ago... but I have told that story over many
times.
HM
__________________________________________________
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Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
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Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 00:11:18 +0200 (GMT+0200)
From: Eli Turkel <turkel@math.tau.ac.il>
Subject: [none]
>
> I know Micha has requested we refrain from the EY issue, but I could not
> resist noting my utter dismay at the Chilul Hashem nora v'ayom staring at me
> from the pages of The New York Times this morning leynei kol ha'amim: Baruch
> Goldstein's matzeiva, adorned with: "ZTVKL"! and "Neki Kapa'im u'Bar Levav"!
>
It was worse seeing on TV with people in kipot yelling at the army
for violating the grave of a tzaddik (?) and comparing it to Nazism.
>
> YU is a Litvishe yeshiva in the mold of Volozhin the same as any other (at
> least, RIETS is, not the other branches). It is not the equivalent of RYY
> Reines' Lida.
>
> The derech in YU is precisely that of Rav Dessler and the CI, only with
> formal limudei chol (as opposed to the informal at Volozhin and Slabodka)
> thrown in.
Yes the derech is Brisk. But not the idea of everything for the gadol at
the expense of the others. In fact the other non-RIETS sections were
explicitly set up for those not interested or not on the level of
a top Gemara shiur. Obviously they were not afraid that these would
steal students.
So I don't understand why Litvish is the same as Rav Dessler and CI.
>
> A friend at work whose family is from Tunisia and is a recent
> baal tshuva informs me that Rav Ovadia also has been trying to
> reduce the influence of the Kabbala and Zohar on the halacha.
> (Perhaps this is what you meant in your comment above ??)
> In particular, the prayer book published under his aegis eliminates
> a lot of the the kabbalistic influences, including the vowelization (in
> its various permutations) of the shem adnut.
As I stated I was refering to the influence of Ben Ish Chai and the
Chida that R. Yosef was fighting.
>
> q: how did it come about that later Sefardic poskim followed the Zohar more than
> the Bet Yoseif himself who was a "chaver" of The Arizal?
Actually R. Karo was a student of the Remak and never accepted the Ari.
BTW I once read that the Ari and R. Karo were machtanim but was not\able to
verify it. Anyone know the facts?
Eli Turkel
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Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 17:03:52 -0500
From: richard_wolpoe@ibi.com
Subject: Academic scholarship by Orthodox Jews -- Heschel
Are there any specific samples such as articles that reflect this?
Rich Wolpoe
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
<snip>
>I don't know exactly what R'Eli means when he says that R'Heschel's
>"scholarly writings reflect that he accepted the conclusions of higher
>biblical criticism," a term I image R'Eli is using sardonically. Most of
>R'Heschel's writings addressed subjects that had little to do with
>hermeneutics (derush) per se.
No, I meant it peshuto ke-masma'o. Note, I referred to his "scholarly"
writings, with which you may be less familiar, not to his popular ones.
<Snip>
Kol tuv,
Eli Clark
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Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 00:19:10 +0200 (GMT+0200)
From: Eli Turkel <turkel@math.tau.ac.il>
Subject: gedolim
>
> But this is not the point of the story. When The
> Brisker Rav was Nifter, it seemed to the Torah world
> that there would never be Gedolim of that calibre
> again. But of course we know that isn't true.
> Because along came R. Ahron Kutler, R. Moshe, and the
> Brisker Rav's famous nephew. (Althogh I don't think
> the Brisker Rav approved of his nephew but thats's
> another Post).
>
> So, even though we don't see anyone in that league
> now, that doesn't mean we won't ever.
>
Ever is a long time! I don't think anyone on this list is a navi.
However, When CI and R. A. Kotler passed away R. Feinstein and
R. Auerbach were already publishing seforim. Rav Soloveitchik was
also recognized at least a future gadol.
To the best of my knowledge the Brisker Rav thought very highly
of his nephew though he obviously did not agree with the Zionist
viewpoint. There certainly have been rumors that they continued to
communicate though I have never seen any published letters.
Eli Turkel
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Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 17:22:02 -0500
From: "Allen Baruch" <Abaruch@SINAI-BALT.COM>
Subject: RE: Takonos and Kollel
Found something that seems to tie together the 2 discussions.
Work To Marry off the Children Joyfully and Honorably
By Chaim Walder
The recent discussion about the need to solve the problem
of the expense of marrying off children brought a wave of
responses. What was truly remarkable, however, was the
nationwide organizing of avreichim and communal activists to
seriously and practically address this need.
There is a group of Yerushalmi activists and educators whose
goal is to find a way to ease the pressure on parents. They
suggested ideas and formulated a plan, but although they
feel that everyone wants a solution, it is difficult to be sure.
After many consultations and deliberations, a logical, practical
plan was prepared to set up every couple in its own apartment
with a reasonable effort by the parents and no burden on the
young couple.
The organizers established "The Committee to Marry off Children
Joyfully and Honorably" under the auspices of HaRav Ezriel
Auerbach and HaRav Yehuda Silman.
complete story
http://www.shemayisrael.com/chareidi/SMamarriage.htm
kol tuv
Sender Baruch
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Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 14:25:07 -0800 (PST)
From: Harry Maryles <hmaryles@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Brisker Rav and his Nephew
--- richard_wolpoe@ibi.com wrote:
> <snip>
> (Althogh I don't think the Brisker Rav approved of
>
> his nephew but thats's another Post).
> <snip>
> Food for thought?
> Perhaps.
> HM<<
>
>
> Ok Harry you have opened the proverbial pandora's
> box. <smile>
>
> I have no first hand knowlege of the Brisker Rav's
> feeling towards his famous
> nephew RYBS.
>
> However, I saw first hand the extra-ordinary
> deference Rav Y. Gorelick - R.
> Velvel's talmid muvhak - had for that famous nephew
> and it was immense. I sense
> by inference that his rebbe - that is the Rav's
> uncle - shared at least SOME of
> that reverence.
I have no first hand knowledge of this but I don't
think it would stretch the imagination too much to say
that there was probably disaproval by the Brisker Rav
(BR) of the Rav's Mehalech. I don't think the BR
approved of University study for example. I'm not
saying that the BR didn't appreciate the Rav's
brilliance in learning. If I am not mistaken he
sometimes says in his seforim "someone asks...".
There is speculation in and around my circle of
freinds that that "someone" is RYBS. Furthermore,
look at Brisk in Israel today. How many there are
"Gores" the Rav? I'll tell you: 0. That's probably
because the Rav was not ever respected there. I don't
know if he was ever disparaged, but he probably WAS
ignored I know that the Rav respected his uncle. And
I've actually heard R. Aaron Soloveichik express his
respect. I think it was one way, though.
I'd be happy to be corrected.
HM
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