Avodah Mailing List
Volume 04 : Number 223
Monday, December 27 1999
Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 18:47:53 EST
From: C1A1Brown@aol.com
Subject: Re:return of land
>>>we should give up land in Eretz Yisrael, because the alternative is to
look bad in the eyes of our non-fruhm brothers? << What do I need to explain?
>>
It is one thing to hold l'halacha that it is permissable to give up land.
It is quite another thing to say, as you did, that m'dina it is prohibited,
but to asuage our non-religious bretheren we won't make an issue of it.
You need to explain why concern for how others perceive our position should
influence our halachis position. You wouldn't say that if my leaving work
early on Friday for Shabbos was viewed negatively by non-Jewish or
non-religious co-workers I should be mechalel Shabbos; why do you say that if
my beliefs re: yishuv ha'aretz upset them I should change my position?
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Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 02:01:32 +0200
From: "Shoshana L. Boublil" <toramada@zahav.net.il>
Subject: Syrians as peace partners
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Here is some info. to consider re: our peace partners in the North:
>http://www.ourjerusalem.com/news/a060999/1224news.htm
>
>Syrian Govt Magazine Says Jews Use Blood of Christians & Muslims in =
Passover
>Matzohs
>
BTW, some of the school books used by Palestinian (YSA-arab) children =
are not much better.
SLB
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<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2>Here is some info. to =
consider re: our=20
peace partners in the North:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><BR>><A=20
href=3D"http://www.ourjerusalem.com/news/a060999/1224news.htm">http://www=
.ourjerusalem.com/news/a060999/1224news.htm</A><BR>><BR>>Syrian=20
Govt Magazine Says Jews Use Blood of Christians & Muslims in=20
Passover<BR>>Matzohs<BR>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2>BTW, some of the school =
books used by=20
Palestinian (YSA-arab) children are not much better.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2>SLB</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D2><BR> </DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 02:25:08 IST
From: "moshe rudner" <mosherudner@hotmail.com>
Subject: Begin
>we can push the autonomy plan which Menachem
>Begin z"l envisioned
Come on. You've got to tell us what that plan was!
>BTW - the architect of that brilliant
>move is today a partner in a Washington DC law office - nothing
>like having the courage and conviction to live with your decisions
><sarcasm noted>.
Do you think that it's loshon hora to tell us his name or more information
about him? I think that this is an important point and if you can provide
more details (being as the word is already out and it may be litoelet) I
would really appreciate it.
>He realizes now that the
>bus bombings in early 1996 - which were an attempt to force a
>quick "solution" - were a terrible miscalculation, because they
>brought about the downfall of Peres and the election of Netanyahu.
>So after that he learned to turn off the bombings.
This is on the mark.
After the bombings week after week and then day after day made the country
hate Peres just a little bit more (I am not justifying hatred of Shimon
Peres - just relating the facts), Arafat ym"sh (I hope nobody objects to
that, after all he did kill Jewish children)saw that he might lose the
elections. He then announced, and all of the papers reported it, that until
after the elections, there would be no more attacks.
Wow! He just came out and said! He, at least was, in total control. After
the pigua in Machane Yehuda (when Netanyahu was P.M.) I went with a group
from America to hear Peres speak - and then take questions. I asked him to
please use his close relationship with Arafat ym"sh to get the bombings to
stop again. In reponse he told a few vignettes about the N.Y. Times - at
least we know that he's a politician!
May Hashem either give us seichal to act in our best interests vis a vis the
Arabs, or may he deem us hopeless and shomer psayim hashem and revach
vihatzola ya'amod mimakom acher.
Moshe
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Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 18:32:50 -0600
From: "Yosef Gavriel and Shoshanah M. Bechhofer" <sbechhof@casbah.acns.nwu.edu>
Subject: Re: Re:return of land
----- Original Message -----
From: <C1A1Brown@aol.com>
To: <avodah@aishdas.org>
Sent: Monday, December 27, 1999 5:47 PM
Subject: Re:return of land
> It is one thing to hold l'halacha that it is permissable to give up land.
>
> It is quite another thing to say, as you did, that m'dina it is
prohibited,
> but to asuage our non-religious bretheren we won't make an issue of it.
>
It is not demonstably prohibited. It might even be mandated. Who can know? I
certainly do not hold it is prohibited.
But you are right, to assuage our non-religious brethren those of you who
hold it is prohibited should hold your fire. After all, it is not you who
will commit any issur. And, your afrushei me'issurai actvities are of
dubious merit.
Indeed, I would draw an analogy to the Chazon Ish's psak that one may offer
refreshment to a non-Orthodox visitor even if that person will not make a
brocho: The Chillul Hashem of not offering, held the CI, is greater than the
Mesayai'ah of giving him a fruit upon which he which he will not make a
brocho.
> You need to explain why concern for how others perceive our position
should
> influence our halachis position. You wouldn't say that if my leaving work
> early on Friday for Shabbos was viewed negatively by non-Jewish or
> non-religious co-workers I should be mechalel Shabbos; why do you say that
if
> my beliefs re: yishuv ha'aretz upset them I should change my position?
>
The differences are numerous, but, at a very basic level, yesh l'chalek
between kum va'aseh and shev v'al'ta'aseh.
Go to top.
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 19:08:44 -0600
From: "Yosef Gavriel and Shoshanah M. Bechhofer" <sbechhof@casbah.acns.nwu.edu>
Subject: Keynote Speech
----- Original Message -----
From: Gershon Dubin <gershon.dubin@juno.com>
To: <avodah@aishdas.org>
Cc: <sbechhof@casbah.acns.nwu.edu>
Sent: Monday, December 27, 1999 3:35 PM
Subject: Slap in the Face
> > Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 08:44:30 -0600
> > From: "Yosef Gavriel and Shoshanah M. Bechhofer"
> > Subject: Re: Slap in the Face
>
> << The keynote speaker at the Midwest Agudah convention this past
> Motzo'ei Shabbos spoke about Problem Kids, the Internet (BTW, the stance
> is currently far more lenient than it was)
>
> Could you take a break from the current "hot" topic to explain this?
> I'd also be curious to know who the speaker was.
>
The speaker was R' Matisyahu Solomon, Mashgi'ach of Lakewood Yeshiva.
He compared the Internet to Motor Cars before traffic rules and regulations
were instituted: A very dangerous, albeit potentially useful, tool. Mevinei
Dovor will readily perceive:
1. That he is right.
2. That there is a vast difference between the TV analogy and the Motor Car
one.
> <<with an extraordinary SMAG about dishonesty and corruption>>
>
> And this?
>
> Gershon
>
My pleasure. Words to live by - should be framed and nounted in every Jewish
home - MITZVA GEDOLA L'FARSEM!:
(My - free - translation)
Smag Aseh 74:
And I have already expounded to Galus Yerushalayim in Spain (Sefarad) and
the other Galuyos under Christianity (Edom), that now that the Galus has
lasted too long a Jew must separate himself from the frivolities (Hevlei) of
the world and grasp the seal of Ha'Kadosh Baruch Hu, which is Truth, and not
lie, neither to Jews nor to non-Jews, nor to deceive them in any matter, and
to sanctify ourselves even in that which is permissible to us, as it says
(Tzefani'a 3:13): "The remnant of Israel will not commit foul deeds nor
speak falsehoods, nor will there be found in their mouths treacherous
tongues." And then, when Ha'Kadosh Baruch Hu comes to redeem us the non-Jews
will say that He is just in doing so, for we are men of truth and Toras Emes
is in our mouths.
But if we conduct ourselves towards the non-Jews with deceit (Rama'us), then
they will say: "See what Ha'Kadosh Baruch Hu has done, that He has chosen as
His portion thieves and cheats."
Furthermore, it is written (Hoshe'a 2:25): "And I will plant them in the
earth." Why does a person plant a measure of grain in the earth? In order to
cultivate several measures. So too Ha'Kadosh Baruch Hu planted Yisroel in
the various lands so that converts would join us. As long as we conduct
ourselves amongst them with deceit who will cling to us? And, we find that
Ha'Kadosh Baruch Hu was upset even by theft from evildoers, as it says
(Bereishis 6:11): " And the land was filled with theft (Chamas)."
Further, I bring proof from the Yerushalmi Chapter Eilu Metzi'os (Halocho
5), where it says: "The elder rabbis (Rabbanan Savi'ai) bought a measure of
grain from non-Jews and found within it a bundle of money. They returned it
to them, and the non-Jews said: 'Blessed is the G-d of the Jews.'" Many
similar stories of lost items that were returned to non-Jews because of
Kiddush Hashem are related there.
Yosef Gavriel Bechhofer
Cong. Bais Tefila, 3555 W. Peterson Ave., Chicago, IL 60659
http://www.aishdas.org/baistefila ygb@aishdas.org
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Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 17:16:44 -0800 (PST)
From: Harry Maryles <hmaryles@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Kollel support (was problem kids)
--- DFinchPC@aol.com wrote:
> It'd be nice, though, if
> each of us might be given a
> second crack at full-time Torah learning, say 25 or
> 30 years after an initial
> decision to do something else. It would be difficult
> to describe my state of
> spiritual innocence -- and ignorance -- when I was a
> college sophomore. The
> ignorance, in fact, came in so many varieties that I
> am fortunate to be
> around to look back on it. As a class, college
> sophomores can't be expected
> to evaluate meaningfully the talents HaShem has
> given each of them. Really
> important decisions should await middle-age.
A lot of this innocence/ignorance is cultural
depending upon where and how you are raised. Usually,
if one goes through the "system", by the time you are
a "sophomore" in a Beis Hamedrash, you pretty much
know if your talents lie in learning full time or in
some other endeavor. Even if you don't, there is
usually someone, like a Mashgiach, Rebbe, or Rosh
Hayeshiva, who should know where you are holding in
learning.
As for beinmg given a chance to learn full time at a
later stage in life... nothing wrong with that. If,
however, one is so inclined he shouldn't ask for
financial support from the community to do so. If the
talent is truly there, he will rise to the occasion
and "where there is a will - there is a way". In any
case this is a relatively rare occurance in this day
and age.
HM
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Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 01:25:07 +0000
From: david@arctic1.demon.co.uk
Subject: ma inyen shmite eytsel har sinay?
What do debates over the return of land have to do with the avodah list?
99.9% if not 100% of those who hold any opinion on this invidious
subject hold so in spite of the Torah and not because of the Torah. Of
course they all try to prove that theirs is the correct view and will
pile up chapter and verse to prove it, but as we all know even a bas kol
emanating from har khoyreyv would change very little.
Here in the UK we have a not too dissimilar situation in Northern
Ireland with almost all the same arguments thrown about. Though, despite
the divide being along religious lines I have never heard Matthew or
Luke being quoted to support a point of view.
If you're a gung ho Jewish supremacist spouting racist nonsense to
justify your stance and advocating a worshipping of land more akin to
paganism than to Judaism you would do the same in Ireland without a
Torah to support you. And if you are lucky enough to possess the vision
to realise that war benefits no one and that peace is in everyone's
favour you would probably believe so wherever you lived and whichever
religion you belonged to.
It is interesting to note, however, that the nastier accusations and
comments even in our own oylem koten have come from RYGB's opponents and
not from the Great Man v'siyatey. So who's slapping whom, eh?
Dovid Herskovic
(To RYGB: I hope our concurrence, for a change, won't make you
re-evaluate your opinions. :-))
Go to top.
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 03:25:53 IST
From: "moshe rudner" <mosherudner@hotmail.com>
Subject: Treatment of Arabs
Two people have made mentions of our "mistreatment" of the Arab populace.
Chachamim hizaru bidivreichem...before being motzie laz on most of Am
Yisroel for the past fifty years please be certain that you know the facts
well.
I will not get in depth into this issue at all. Firstly due to time
constraints and secondly a discussion "justifying" Am Yisrorel vis a vis
Muslem Fundamentalists is a discussion that has no place on a respectable
Torah list.
But a few quick points:
I am not defending any and every action done by Jews against Arabs. On an
Arab list on the web I apoligised (without denigrating) for a Jew who wrote
nasty things on their list which were unjustified. That said...
Israel has created as many Universities in for Arabs in the West Bank as had
existed in all of Jordan (to the best of my knowledge). How many other
"peoples" still live in refugee camps 50 years after first becoming
"refugees"? From 1948-1967 these "displaced Arabs in the West Bank couldn't
resettle? The P.L.O made certain that their Arab "brethren" stayed
displaced. It was the only way that they could retain their grievance
against "the sons of monkeys and pigs".
After WW2 America, the USSR and other countries took over vast tracts of
land so as to defend themselves. For us this is still a very real issue, is
America still afraid of getting attacked by Japan?
Apropos to this topic I highly recommend _Battleground_ by Shmuel Katz and
_A Place Among the nations_ by Benjamin Netanyahu.
Also, do Arab terrorists not deserve to have their homes destroyed? Do Arab
policemen shooting at Israelis not deserve to be shot back at - as occured
when they "claimed" deceitfully (it wasn't true) that Israel was digging
under Har Habayit and they started riots using the guns Which We Gave Them?
I realise that a religious Jew who supports the "peace" process might feel
like an "intellectual" and a freethinker for boldly being different, but I
really don't think that they give brownie points for that in heaven. So
please, and I include myself in this as well, let's all check to make sure
that our reasons for our shitot are lishma and not for ulterior motives.
[please pause for contemplation, without smirking]
By the way, 99% of the Arabs in Yehuda vishomron now live under the
Palestinian Autonomy. Now what?
Lastly, it just might be - I'm not saying that this is the case, but it just
might be - that for the past 51 years we have been fighting a war. Against
Egypt, Syria, Iraq, and a whole lot of terrorism - perhaps in war
(especially if the Israeli defensive wars are considered milchemet mitzva)
many things - such as killing terrorists and frisking civilians - are very
justified.
As I noted earlier, I don't think that this should have to be an issue as to
whether rachmanim bnei rachmanim are oppressing innocent Arabs. The Gemara
has already warned us - one who is merciful to the cruel will end up being
cruel to the merciful.
Hashem yivarech et amo bashalom.
Moshe
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Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 03:38:17 IST
From: "moshe rudner" <mosherudner@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Moshe's free will
>>>>>Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 18:24:14 EST
From: Yzkd@aol.com
Subject: Re:
In a message dated 12/27/99 4:26:33 PM EST, mosherudner@hotmail.com writes:
>In order for the Jewish people to trust his relating of prophecy G-d only
> needed to remove Moshe's free will vis a vis recording G-d's Torot. There
> was no reason for Moshe's free will to be removed for anything else
> including hitting the rock.
>
See Rashi Bamidbar 17:13.
Kol Tuv
Yitzchok Zirkind>>>>>>
Thankm you for showing me that Rashi. This seems to say that Moshe had no
free will while giving instructions but I'm not sure that it would include a
situation such as hitting the rock.
Thanks again,
Moshe
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Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 03:45:20 IST
From: "moshe rudner" <mosherudner@hotmail.com>
Subject: re:Batlanim
I wrote:
>The Rambam has a tshuva dealing with this. He quotes a Yerushalmi >which
>the
>questioner quoted incorrectly. : Rabbi Yehuda says "Kigon anu sheyn >anu
>tzrichim litalmideynu/like us (he and his colleagues are batlanim) >because
>we are no longer in need of study."
Just to be clear. The questioner quoted it incorrectly and the Rambam
corrected him. I supplied the Rambam's nusach -NOT the mistaken questioners.
Moshe
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Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 19:45:05 -0600
From: "Yosef Gavriel and Shoshanah M. Bechhofer" <sbechhof@casbah.acns.nwu.edu>
Subject: Re: ma inyen shmite eytsel har sinay?
I'll try not to influenced :-).
Yosef Gavriel Bechhofer
Cong. Bais Tefila, 3555 W. Peterson Ave., Chicago, IL 60659
http://www.aishdas.org/baistefila ygb@aishdas.org
----- Original Message -----
From: <david@arctic1.demon.co.uk>
To: Avodah <avodah@aishdas.org>
Sent: Monday, December 27, 1999 7:25 PM
Subject: ma inyen shmite eytsel har sinay?
> (To RYGB: I hope our concurrence, for a change, won't make you
> re-evaluate your opinions. :-))
>
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Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 18:04:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Harry Maryles <hmaryles@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Jews of yesteryear and wigs
--- BDCOHEN613@aol.com wrote:
> (Sheitels:)
> Are we blindly going along, because
> that's today's standard
> uniform, or is this a requirement and the Rabbi's
> wives were sinners?
It's a requiremant. They were all sinners.
HM
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Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 18:00:07 -0800 (PST)
From: Harry Maryles <hmaryles@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Orthodoxy and return of land
--- "Mrs. Gila Atwood" <gatwood@netvision.net.il>
wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: Orthodoxy and return of land
>
>
> > Perhaps. I am resigned to what I perceive to be
> inevitable. I am no longer
> > sure it is a bad thing, and that we should beseech
> Hashem to help avoid it
> > occuring.
> >
> > Yosef Gavriel Bechhofer
>
> Dear Rabbi Bechhofer & list- I sincerely would
> like to believe that you
> are right. I would be happy to give the Palestinians
> social autonomy and
> live together in peace. Even now if enough people on
> both sides can reach a
> mindspace of goodwill it might be feasible- with
> the help of a few water
> desalination plants and other resources.
>
> However, my misgivings are based on plenty real
> evidence that we're a long
> way from such feasibility.
What "real" evidence. We know they hate us.
I've been following this thread somewhat and I totally
agree with RYGB. It is far easier to say "Let's hold
on to the land" than it is to actually do something
about it. After more than 30 years of devouring as
much material as I can on the subject from both the
hardline right, (fight to the death - ala Meir Kahane)
to the hardline left, (Let's give away Jerusalem if it
makes the Arabs happy)
I've come to the conclusion, along with the majority
of the citizens of the State of Israel that the time
has come to take a chance for peace. Too much blood
has been spilled. These are our children fighting and
dying, RL. Of course no one would sign a peace deal if
it was perceived to be a ploy on the part of the Arabs
to take back Palestine in stages or to weaken Israel
strategicly and militarily. But I believe that the
Arabs can no longer hope to regain all of Palestine.
They've tried and failed. True, the Arabs hate us and
given the opportunity, they'd drive us into the sea.
But, I think they've finally realized it's impossible
so they've embarked on a path that will give them as
much as can. They've finally accepted the "Infidel
Jew" as their neighbor. The rhetoric has changed. I
know that when they speak Arabic to the masses they
talk of ultimatly retrieving all of Paestine but this
is just "feelgood talk" which, if foolish, is designed
to appease the fundementalists among them. I'm sure
that the Israeli intelligence commmunity, (the Mosad)
knows full well what is really going on amongst the
Arabs politically or the Islamic Fundementalist
extremists. They are the real danger to the peace
proccess. They are the rejectionists who strike
whenever there is even the slightest move towards
peace. They consider it a holy war worth dying for in
order to recapture Palestine. But we can't let fear of
terrorism deter us in Israel any more than we should
let it deter us anywhere else.
I'm thoroughly convinced that Barak has all of this
knowledge at hand. Israel needs to trust it's elected
leadership. It is all too easy to accuse him of
trying to create a legacy at Israel's expense instead
of truly having Israel's best interest at heart.
Rabin was accused of the same thing.
The peace proccess is a gamble, but it is a gamble
worth taking. Lives are at stake.
I think we can rely on those poskim who say that
Pikuach Nefesh justifies giving up land.
To quote or paraphrase Menachem Begin when he signed
the peace treaty with Sadat: No more war.
HM
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Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 21:35:37 EST
From: TROMBAEDU@aol.com
Subject: Re: Orthodoxy and the Return of Land
In a message dated 12/27/99 2:17:07 PM Eastern Standard Time,
DFinchPC@aol.com writes:
<<
Thus far I've been reluctant to weigh in on the Avodah line on the Great
Debate over giving up EY territory to the Palestinians. But I agree
wholeheartedly that RYGB's thinking on the subject is "highly nuanced." It's
also really gutsy. Not all of us have his courage.
>>
Wow. That whole post is a heck of a mouthful. You have said in it a number of
things I was unwilling to say, because of the desire to avoid flame wars. But
I support your position entirely. With one exception.......
As a certifiable Civil War nut, I'd say the General you were looking for in
comparision to Barak was not Grant, but George Thomas, who spent the entire
war underrated, because he got it right the first time more than any other
Union General.
Jordan
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Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 21:40:38 EST
From: TROMBAEDU@aol.com
Subject: Re: Orthodoxy and the Return of Land
In a message dated 12/27/99 3:16:21 PM Eastern Standard Time,
DFinchPC@aol.com writes:
<< <<Why is Barak more trustworthy than Sharon?>>
Character. Outlook. Self-control. Degree of self-absorption. Degree of
narcissistic disregard for pluralistic concerns. Extent to which personal
ambition is treated as HaShem's Holy Plan. Have I missed anything?
>>
Yes. poor war policy making, in 1982. Not to mention shady real estate
dealings from a position of power.
Jordan
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Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 22:07:45 EST
From: DFinchPC@aol.com
Subject: Re: Orthodoxy and the Return of Land
In a message dated 12/27/99 8:35:51 PM US Central Standard Time,
TROMBAEDU@aol.com writes:
<< As a certifiable Civil War nut, I'd say the General you were looking for
in
comparision to Barak was not Grant, but George Thomas, who spent the entire
war underrated, because he got it right the first time more than any other
Union General.
>>
I certainly take your word for it, as I very little about the Civil War.
Maybe I should have compared Barak to Omar Bradley. I hesitate to say to whom
I'd compare Sharon.
David Finch
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Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 23:31:53 -0500
From: "S Klagsbrun" <S.Klagsbrun@WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Subject: Re: Avodah V4 #217
Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 22:39:24 -0500
From: "M. Press" <mpress@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Batei Din
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It is nothing short of amazing that several posters, based on their personal
experiences,
have urged list members to violate an unequivocal Issur D'Oraisa.
>I have not urged anyone to go to court. I have urged people who know
>nothing about the situation of 'botai din' in America to refrain from
>advising other people with know nothing of the situation to go to a 'bais
>din'.
>When to go to a baais din, when one is permitted to go to civil court,
>when to seek arbitration other than court or bais din are matters best
>addressed to a Rov familiar with the general condition of din in America.
As to the 'unequivocal' isur d'orais I know of several cases in which people
have been given rishus from rabbonim chashuvim to take their cases directly
to court, without an attempt at a hazmanah to bais din. Each and every case
is a shailoh to be addressed to a competent rov.
> There is no question that there are corrupt Botei Din and little question
>that Mr. Klagsbrun's personal experiences are painful. At the same time it
>is nothing short of absurd to tar all Batei Din because of his experiences
>(Has he been to EVERY BEIS DIN in the US?).
Please show me the words EVERY BAIS DIN or ALL BOTAI DIN in any of my
postings. My point is that the overall situation stinks, for lack of a
better term, and therefore entering into any bais din, until proven to the
contrary, is a dangerous act.
>I can comment from my own experience that I was in an adversarial
>situation in a Beis Din and found it to be reasonable and fair - I know of
>several others that are regarded as honest.
Again, I have never written or said there are NO honest botai din in
America.
>The appropriate response to this problem is to accept reality, refuse to go
>to a dishonest Beis Din, and observe the Halacha. No Beis Din will issue
>a Seruv against someone who says "I insist on going to Beis Din Ploni."
Here I disagree with you 100%. I can show you a letter threatening to place
in chairem a women who refused to appear before a Brooklyn (Chassidish) bais
din which was written three years AFTER her husband had refused to go to ANY
bais din and had been issued a siruv. The new BD refused to recognize the
Litvish BD and knowing the history of the case allowed itself to be used in
an attempt to have the women removed from her position in Chinuch as a
misareves.
To say that there is anything that NO bais din will do is wishful thinking.
Melech
M. Press, Ph.D.
Professor of Psychology, Touro College
mpress@ix.netcom.com or melechp@touro.edu
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