Avodah Mailing List
Volume 04 : Number 188
Wednesday, December 15 1999
Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 14:49:41 +0200
From: "Carl M. Sherer" <cmsherer@ssgslaw.co.il>
Subject: Lashon Hara l'Toeles (was Re: Agunos in Baltimore)
On 2 Dec 99, at 18:39, Micha Berger wrote:
> He was surprised by a rav who told him not to speak in public on the subject;
> to make a kiddush, but not announce the particular event generating that
> feeling of hoda'ah to HKBH. The reason given was that it was too close to
> lashon hara. And he too wonders how we're supposed to address the problem
> if everyone is afraid to publicize it because of LH issues.
I think that the issue here is one of toeles. I think that if you have
the kavanah of trying to help out the aguna, there is almost always
a toeles in saying "so and so refuses to give his wife a get and is a
sarvan Beis Din," because you never know when someone can
help out.
I think that if someone making a Seudas Hodaya does so with a
sincere kavana to be modeh to HKB"H for saving them from a
difficult situation, then they ought to be allowed to say for what
they are thankful. In fact, I saw an article in a sefer called Mizmor
l'Thoda where the author argued that the Korban Toda having so
many lachmei toda was so that you would have to invite other
people to your Seudas Hodaya, and through their being there you
would come to tell them about the nes that Hashem did for you.
There is also a Yalkut Shimoni that I heard from my wife that says
that the reason the Shunamis' son died was that she did not do
enough to publicize the nes of her son being born, and therefore
she needed another nes to properly fulfill the mitzva of hodaya.
However, I can see where the aguna herself or her family should be
telling it to people in terms of "I/she received my/her get," so that
you leave open the possibility that the husband did tshuva, rather
than putting it in terms of "that &^%$ finally gave his wife a get."
The latter does seem to border on lashon hara, and if it is all that is
said, it may not have a toeles.
I also think that if telling over the story of how the woman received
her get is done with the purpose of trying to help others in a similar
situation (e.g. "Rav Ploni Almoni was very helpful," or "The
husband's professional organization was willing to expel him
because he was in contempt of court and that's why he finally
delivered the get," where the listener is attempting to help someone
or is someone in a similar situation), that is lashon hara l'toeles
and mutar.
> In terms of common knowledge, his father's passport was confiscated by the
> State of Israel. The event was covered globally by the Jewish media, as well
> as by the NY Times, the Philadelphia Inquirer, the Boston Herald, vechulu.
When that happened, the US embassy intervened, and many of us
here in Eretz Yisroel were asked to make calls urging them to butt
out. Since we had to know enough about the case to discuss it
intelligently with the Embassy, it seems to me that telling us
enough about the case to enable us to make the call was lashon
hara l'toeles.
> I have to repeat Russel Hendell's request to actually discuss the parameters
> of LH. It would seem that erring in either direction in this circumstance
> would be a MAJOR avlah.
Hopefully someone with a little more knowledge than I have will
pick up on this (usual disclaimers about not having smicha and not
being a posek apply).
-- Carl
Carl M. Sherer, Adv.
Silber, Schottenfels, Gerber & Sherer
Telephone 972-2-625-7751
Fax 972-2-625-0461
mailto:cmsherer@ssgslaw.co.il
mailto:sherer@actcom.co.il
Please daven and learn for a Refuah Shleima for my son,
Baruch Yosef ben Adina Batya among the sick of Israel.
Thank you very much.
Go to top.
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 14:55:42 +0200 (IST)
From: Eli Turkel <turkel@math.tau.ac.il>
Subject: women & funerals
> SBA writes
>
>
> The Kitzur Shulchan Oruch 198:10 states that it is a Sakono for men and women
> to see each other at a funeral. This is from SA YD 359:2 (see Shach and Bach).
> The Nitei Gavriel on Hilchos Aveilus bring many more sources for total
> separation of men and women at funerals and/or totally banning
> women from funerals - incluidng SA Harav, Mavar Yabok,
> Minhogei Worms, Nickelsburg, Tzfas, Bovel and Mizrach lands.
>
Nevertheless, I have never see a place that does not allow women/children
at the hespedim. It is only after the hesped when they go to the graveside
that women/children are sometimes requested no to go.
Eli Turkel
Go to top.
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 15:33:06 +0200
From: "Mrs. Gila Atwood" <gatwood@netvision.net.il>
Subject: Re: Reb Shlomo Carlebach and Carlebach minyanim
===================================================
Mrs. Gila Atwood
We are pixels in G-d's imagination.
You are welcome to browse my website at:
http://www.bereshitsoftware.com/gila/main.html
a little Torah, nature, humour, environmental concerns and memoirs.
.. Mussar, however, also has a significant criticism of Chassidus:
> It sees Chassidus as too external, too theoretical and abstract. The
> Chasid deludes himself into thinking that he is getting more out of
> Chassidus than he actually is. Chassidus deals with profound thoughts
and
> great deeds, but it remains outside the essence of the Chasid.
Chassidus
> penetrates the depths of the greatest Torah problems - between both
Man
> and G-d, and between Man and Man - but it penetrates too little the
> self of a person, so that he might engage in a reckoning as to where
> he stands in relation to his World and in relation to his obligations
> in his World... The average Chasid deludes himself into thinking that
a
> nigun that he sings wells up from his heart, and that the dveykus that
> he experiences has its source in his soul, even though it is entirely
> possible that these are transient moods, not associated with his true
> essence.
> To the extent that the high is a product of d'veikus, that high itself is
> an end, not only a mean. Identifying that extent is a skill to be learned
> from mussar.
>
All due respect to the author, but this is a rather superficial view of a
lot of chassidus.
Please take a look at the volumes produced by the Breslov Research
Institute, and of course, many works of Chabad- of course the Tanya- for
profound consideration of the inner self.
For an anecdotal account of the kind of mind expansion possible through
dance, I invite you to read the Bat Ayin posts - you can find them in the
most recent archives of my list "Jewish Exploration"- easily accessible
from my web pages. (address above)
The "high" is not an end, but rather a beginning of a deeper, fuller Avodas
Hashem. We have to find ways to make it last. In a state of expanded
consciousness we may feel that we should take on the sefer Mesilas Yesharim
in all it's entirety but we finally have to admit begrudgingly to ourselves
this is not going to be- though we can give it our best shot. We have to
make some kind of important kaballah soon, and consciously keep it going.
Mrs. G. Atwood.
Go to top.
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 09:06:18 EST
From: Pawshas@aol.com
Subject: Re: The significance of a Maaseh sheHayah
The truth is that a Maaseh sheHayah may not carry Halachic strength, but it
carries great personal strength.
Here's an anecdote Without a Maaseh sheHayah:
I was once asked whether the pregnant granddaughter of a Niftar, who had been
very close to him, could go to his funeral. Certain European family members
were very concerned for a potential miscarriage. What do you say? So many
things can go wrong, Gd-forbid, in a pregnancy; do you want to allow her to
go, and then if something happens wonder forever whether it was your fault
because you were cavalier regarding forces you don't understand?
Now add to that the impact of witnessing a case where a woman goes to a
funeral and miscarries, at the funeral or some time thereafter. How likely
are you to allow the next one to go?
(BTW, I told her that there was nothing within law or local Minhag to keep
her from going, and then I let her and her family make the decision as far as
their own comfort. She went, and BH the baby was born BeShaah Tovah
UMutzlachas.)
Mordechai
Cong. Ohave Shalom, YI of Pawtucket, RI http://members.tripod.com/~ohave
HaMakor! http://www.aishdas.org/hamakor Mareh Mekomos Reference Library
WEBSHAS! http://www.aishdas.org/webshas Indexing the Talmud, Daf by Daf
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Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 09:07:32 -0500
From: "S Klagsbrun" <S.Klagsbrun@WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Subject: Re: Avodah V4 #186
Also FWIW, I went some years ago to a day of learning about Chevra Kadisha
matters, and a frequent response by the "scholar-in-residence", a very
knowledgeable and respected person, to specific questions was "ask your
local chevra person" -- IOW, the force of custom in this area is great and
hence many variations are within acceptable bounds.
Freda Birnbaum, fbb6@columbia.edu
Actually, there is very little within the 'tahara' and kevura practice that
is firmly grounded in codified halacha. Most of what we do is based on
minhagim. The strength of minhag hamakom is particularly strong in these
matters.
The achronim go so far as to speak of an 'issur' against changing a chevra
kadisha's minhagim, even (or perhaps especially) when changing for the
'better'. (The entire process is based on kavod hamais, hence I use the
terms 'better' and 'improved' as reference to procedures which accord more
kavod to the mais.) The Bais Lechem Yehuda writes of 'improvements' in a
chevra's procedures as being a source of tragedy in the community.
The logic behind this is that by using more kavod hamais on new niftarim we
would be retroactively insulting the earlier niftarim.
Go to top.
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 09:44:19 -0500
From: "Mark Press" <mpress@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Homosexuality
I must take strong exception to Rabbi YGB's request, despite my great
respect for him. Homosexuality is NOT Mishkav Zachar and that is precisely
why the correct term must be used. Some people with homosexual inclinations
engage in mishkav zachar, and many frum ones do not. Mishkav zachar is a
chiyuv misah, homosexuality is not. It is precisely the tendency to confuse
the two which adds to the problems of committed Jews who are struggling with
the conflict between their emotional inclinations and the Torah's demands.
As to why we are having this general discussion, surely it indicates that
even members of this list have differing opinions on the matter and are
subject to confusion and error in dealing with it. If discussion of these
matters is problematic for one's children, then perhaps we should exercise
our role as mechanchim and not let them look at postings without out
approval.
A poster raised the issue of whether homosexuals can be "cured". That
question is relevant only if one buys into the notion that it is a disease
to have such inclinations; another poster had raised the issue of whether
there is any evidence that cultural factors impact on such behavior. (I will
try, RYGB, lichvodecha to minimize my use of technical terms). I think RYGB
is correct that we need not cite scientific literature on this subject but
there is much evidence that this type of behavior is HEAVILY affected by
situational and cultural forces and that it is possible to reduce the
expression of such behavior by controlling those elements. It is also true
that there is no reliable evidence yet that these feelings are determined
primarily by genetic or biological factors; in any event, the way such
factors act in behavioral areas is complex and not subject to single-element
etiologies.
However, we must be aware in our discussion of this issue how much even
members of our world are affected by the changing acceptability of abnormal
behaviors in the outside world. Many of us struggle against emotional
inclinations which are partially determined by biology but we do not offer
such phenomena as justifications for sin, but only as further hurdles to be
overcome. For example, there are some people on this list for whom
self-control in matters of arayos is much more difficult than for others
because of the intensity of their drives. We do not therefore allow them to
engage in issurei Torah; we try to help them find ways of dealing with their
nisayon.
Melech
M. Press, Ph.D.
Professor of Psychology, Touro College
mpress@ix.netcom.com or melechp@touro.edu
Go to top.
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 09:43:43 -0500
From: "Rayman, Mark" <mrayman@lehman.com>
Subject: Re: Text vs. Practice
From: richard_wolpoe@ibi.com
>Subject: Re: Text vs. Practice
>Is anyone know of anyone that is someich on the mechabeir's eitzo of
>masneh aleihem kol yayom legabei netillas Yodayim?
>See SA 164:1 and MB 164:2.
>To me this is a case on the books that AFAIK is never or hardly ever put
>into practice.
I know some kohanim who prefer not to miss chazoras hashatz who rely on this
and do not wash for duchaning.
Moshe
Go to top.
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 08:42:41 -0600
From: "Yosef Gavriel and Shoshanah M. Bechhofer" <sbechhof@casbah.acns.nwu.edu>
Subject: Re: Reb Shlomo Carlebach and Carlebach minyanim
As the author is my hero, I stand by his words. I am not sure what this has
to do with the Carlebach heading, however.
Be that as it may, I believe Breslov, for all their emphasis on hisbodedus,
is superficial as the rest. In Sha'alvim, i once witnessed the tragic
descent of one of the brightest member of our shiur into Breslover
Chassidus. From a brilliant analytical approach he ended up learning Tur
Beis Yosef large amounts of time because the Beis Yosef was written b'ruach
hakodesh.
Yosef Gavriel Bechhofer
Cong. Bais Tefila, 3555 W. Peterson Ave., Chicago, IL 60659
http://www.aishdas.org/baistefila ygb@aishdas.org
----- Original Message -----
From: Mrs. Gila Atwood <gatwood@netvision.net.il>
To: <avodah@aishdas.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 1999 7:33 AM
Subject: Re: Reb Shlomo Carlebach and Carlebach minyanim
>
> ===================================================
> Mrs. Gila Atwood
> We are pixels in G-d's imagination.
> You are welcome to browse my website at:
> http://www.bereshitsoftware.com/gila/main.html
> a little Torah, nature, humour, environmental concerns and memoirs.
>
>
> . Mussar, however, also has a significant criticism of Chassidus:
> > It sees Chassidus as too external, too theoretical and abstract. The
> > Chasid deludes himself into thinking that he is getting more out of
> > Chassidus than he actually is. Chassidus deals with profound
thoughts
> and
> > great deeds, but it remains outside the essence of the Chasid.
> Chassidus
> > penetrates the depths of the greatest Torah problems - between both
> Man
> > and G-d, and between Man and Man - but it penetrates too little the
> > self of a person, so that he might engage in a reckoning as to where
> > he stands in relation to his World and in relation to his
obligations
> > in his World... The average Chasid deludes himself into thinking
that
> a
> > nigun that he sings wells up from his heart, and that the dveykus
that
> > he experiences has its source in his soul, even though it is
entirely
> > possible that these are transient moods, not associated with his
true
> > essence.
>
> > To the extent that the high is a product of d'veikus, that high itself
is
> > an end, not only a mean. Identifying that extent is a skill to be
learned
> > from mussar.
> >
> All due respect to the author, but this is a rather superficial view of a
> lot of chassidus.
> Please take a look at the volumes produced by the Breslov Research
> Institute, and of course, many works of Chabad- of course the Tanya- for
> profound consideration of the inner self.
> For an anecdotal account of the kind of mind expansion possible through
> dance, I invite you to read the Bat Ayin posts - you can find them in the
> most recent archives of my list "Jewish Exploration"- easily accessible
> from my web pages. (address above)
>
> The "high" is not an end, but rather a beginning of a deeper, fuller
Avodas
> Hashem. We have to find ways to make it last. In a state of expanded
> consciousness we may feel that we should take on the sefer Mesilas
Yesharim
> in all it's entirety but we finally have to admit begrudgingly to
ourselves
> this is not going to be- though we can give it our best shot. We have to
> make some kind of important kaballah soon, and consciously keep it going.
>
> Mrs. G. Atwood.
>
>
>
>
Go to top.
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 10:01:58 -0500
From: "Markowitz, Chaim" <CMarkowitz@scor.com>
Subject: RE: Avodah V4 #187
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
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Content-Type: text/plain
> In a message dated 12/14/99 11:37:59 PM Eastern Standard Time,
TROMBAEDU@aol.com writes:
>>********* is Mishkav Zachor. Why assume the term Mishkav Zachor
is any
> less incendiary?
>
I think RYGB has a very good point. I would liken it to the gemara's
discussion in Pesachim of the torah's use of the term "Einenah Tahor" as
opposed to "Tamei". ]
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5.5.2448.0">
<TITLE>RE: Avodah V4 #187</TITLE>
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<BODY>
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<UL>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">In a message dated 12/14/99 11:37:59 =
PM Eastern Standard Time, </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">TROMBAEDU@aol.com writes:</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">>>*********</FONT> <FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial"> is Mishkav Zachor. Why assume the term Mishkav Zachor =
is any </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">less incendiary?</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">I think RYGB has a =
very good point. I would liken it to the gemara's discussion in =
Pesachim of the torah's use of the term "Einenah Tahor" as =
opposed to "Tamei".</FONT> <FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial"> ]</FONT></P>
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Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 10:09:25 -0500
From: David Glasner <DGLASNER@FTC.GOV>
Subject: Re: Shechem culpability
Yaakov Shachter wrote:
<<<
In Avodah V$ #183, David Glassner asked if the the inhabitants of Shechem
were culpable for not enforcing the law against rape, are all the citizens
of the United States culpable for not preventing abortions which are a
violation of the seven Noahide laws? Would one be allowed, under this
reasoning, to kill American citizens?
The Shechemites were culpable because they violated the Noachide mitzva of
"dinim"; i.e. they did not have a legal system to enforce the Noachide laws
and maintain civil order. Not having a judicial and/or legislative system is
in itself a Noachide sin, all of which are capital crimes. In the absence of
such a system, there's a machlokes rishonim, and in teshuvos acharonim,
whether each individual Ben Noach is obligated to enforce the law and mete
out punishment. (One interesting one is: if a Ben Noach commits a Noachide
sin, is he then obligated to enforce punishment against the offender . . .
by committing suicide?)
On the other hand, US citizens fulfil the mitzvah of "dinim" by maintaining
a system where civil laws are enacted and enforced. Their obligation is to
play their part in seeing to it that the system enacts laws which are in
agreement with the Noachide laws and enforces them.
While this explains the difference between the Shechemite's culpability and
an American's obligation visa-vis a Noachide sinner, it still leaves the
question of whether one is obligated to fight the system when it itself
violates Noachide laws, at the risk of being punished for it by the system.
This I don't know.
>>>
I sympathize with your approach. However, if the Shechemites were
culpable for not having established any system of justice, not for turning
a blind eye to a miscarriage of justice, then the implication is that the rape
of Dinah served merely as a convenient pretext for meting out a punishment
that the inhabitants of Shechem were already liable for. My impression is
that that is not the usual interpretation of what happenned. Else, why is
it necessary to point out that Dinah was a minor still under the care of
her father, so that the violation was not for the rape of an unmarried
woman (not prohibited under the Noahide Laws) but for kidnapping.
David Glasner
dglasner@ftc.gov
!
!
!
!
!
!
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Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 10:22:20 -0500
From: richard_wolpoe@ibi.com
Subject: Re[2]: Homosexuals
Let me say succinctly the following:
It is MOST CRUEL to torture those Shochvei Zochor when dealing with those who
are "hard-wired" that way. Why add addtional layers of agama nefesh?
OTOH
imho - it is equally cruel to give up hope and tell those shochvei zocho who CAN
change well why bother, science says you can't. To me, perpteuating the sicne
of the 1990's that says ALL those into Mishkva Zohor are stuck beyond repait is
pseudo-scinece and sheker.
How can you tell which Min Shocheiv Zochor is which? I would recommend each
case be handle on an individual basis, and to avoid sweeping generaliztions
(including many of my own! <smile>)
To cross-threads
is the rack significantly more "cruel" than say:
1) kofin oso ad sh'omer rotze ani?
2) makin oso Mkakas mardus...
Rich Wolpoe
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Homosexuals
Author: <avodah@aishdas.org> at tcpgate
Date: 12/15/1999 11:00 AM
> Since the lesening of the stigma of homsxuality, I'm quite confident the
> efficacy rate has dropped. Ostraciszation - as cruel as it is - does work.
"work" in what sense --- more outward compliance, but were these would-be
homosexuals devoted husbands? do we know how many past suicides were
from ostracized homosexuals? how many secret aveirot?
i don't entirely disagree with you: someone who literally has a choice
between men and women should choose whichever is the opposite sex (and i
think they have every incentive to.) someone who doesn't have such a
choice should not be compelled because it's not clear they can meet the
obligations of marriage. (and i don't mean functionally, but in terms
of thought. cf., nedarim 20a on rabbi eliezer.)
janet
<< Ostraciszation - as cruel as it is - does work.
And prohibition cut down incidents of alcoholism too.
>>
So did the Rack. As Benzion Netanyahu wrote in great detail, it made good
X-tians out of lots of Spanish Jews.
David Finch
Go to top.
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 09:29:58 -0600
From: "Yosef Gavriel and Shoshanah M. Bechhofer" <sbechhof@casbah.acns.nwu.edu>
Subject: Mishkav Zachor
They do not see the text. I ask, and continue to ask, that you change the
headings.
While I cannot accept the content of your message, I do not wish to enter
this debate, as you know I feel this ia not the forum for it, so I leave off
for now.
Again, please change the subject. Talk of what you will, but remember the
sugya at the beginning of Pesachim about lashon nekiya. (DY learners cf
Yevamos 11b).
Thank You,
YGB
Yosef Gavriel Bechhofer
Cong. Bais Tefila, 3555 W. Peterson Ave., Chicago, IL 60659
http://www.aishdas.org/baistefila ygb@aishdas.org
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Press <mpress@ix.netcom.com>
To: <avodah@aishdas.org>
Cc: <sbechhof@casbah.acns.nwu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 1999 8:44 AM
Subject: Homosexuality
> I must take strong exception to Rabbi YGB's request, despite my great
> respect for him. Homosexuality is NOT Mishkav Zachar and that is
precisely
> why the correct term must be used. Some people with homosexual
inclinations
> engage in mishkav zachar, and many frum ones do not. Mishkav zachar is a
> chiyuv misah, homosexuality is not. It is precisely the tendency to
confuse
> the two which adds to the problems of committed Jews who are struggling
with
> the conflict between their emotional inclinations and the Torah's demands.
> As to why we are having this general discussion, surely it indicates that
> even members of this list have differing opinions on the matter and are
> subject to confusion and error in dealing with it. If discussion of these
> matters is problematic for one's children, then perhaps we should exercise
> our role as mechanchim and not let them look at postings without out
> approval.
>
Go to top.
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 10:38:36 -0500 (EST)
From: micha@aishdas.org (Micha Berger)
Subject: Lashon Nikiy'ah
Personally, I don't see why there's discussion about RYGB's request. Using
lashon neki'ah is, in general, a good idea. Since subject lines are even
more birabbim than the rest of the email, why not be extra-careful in how
one phrases things? It's not like it will obscure the discussion -- subject
lines aren't discussion.
-mi
--
Micha Berger (973) 916-0287 MMG"H for 15-Dec-99: Revi'i, Vayigash
micha@aishdas.org A"H
http://www.aishdas.org Pisachim 84a
For a mitzvah is a lamp, and the Torah its light. Melachim-II 8
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Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 09:37:17 -0600
From: "Yosef Gavriel and Shoshanah M. Bechhofer" <sbechhof@casbah.acns.nwu.edu>
Subject: Pesach Query
We, IY"H will be in EY for Pesach with my in-laws and other assorted family
members. We are looking for a mehadrin hotel, reasonable, for a rather large
family group, could be up to thirteen adults, at least nine, and up to
sixteen children, at least eleven. We only need this for the Yom tov Rishon,
Sheni shel Galuyos, and Shabbos. A converted yeshiva or seminary is fine. We
would very much appreciate leads and directions. Thank you very much!
Yosef Gavriel Bechhofer
Cong. Bais Tefila, 3555 W. Peterson Ave., Chicago, IL 60659
http://www.aishdas.org/baistefila ygb@aishdas.org
Go to top.
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 10:43:49 -0500 (EST)
From: micha@aishdas.org (Micha Berger)
Subject: The Dulberg Sisters
I'm pretty sure all of the chevra are aware of the case so far. But perhaps
you're unaware of the letter writing campaign, or of the information available
on the web. See <http://www.torah.org/services/dulberg.asp> for a page
put together by Project Genesis (torah.org) and the (U). Also, the (U) has its
own page, <http://www.ou.org/public/statements/1999/dulberginfo.htm>.
I'd like to point out that such cases occur in the US numerous times per
year. What makes this unique is Italy's legal presumption that Orthodox
Judaism is an irrational and dangerous cult. The loss of children from the
kehillah through custody issues is unfortunately common.
-mi
--
Micha Berger (973) 916-0287 MMG"H for 15-Dec-99: Revi'i, Vayigash
micha@aishdas.org A"H
http://www.aishdas.org Pisachim 84a
For a mitzvah is a lamp, and the Torah its light. Melachim-II 8
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Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 10:43:06 -0500
From: richard_wolpoe@ibi.com
Subject: Re[4]: Homosexuals
Can you verify THAT assertion <smile>
Rich W.
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
And prohibition cut down incidents of alcoholism too.
>>
Both unverifiable assertions.
Jordan
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Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 10:56:14 -0500
From: j e rosenbaum <jerosenb@hcs.harvard.edu>
Subject: Re: women and funerals
> BTW I have also been told that women who are pregnant should
> not go to the cemetary at all and should not participate in taharos; I
> assume that is because of ayin hara considerations.
some say that it is like tefillin in a cemetery --- to not make the dead
feel bad about what they can no longer do.
janet
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