Avodah Mailing List

Volume 04 : Number 169

Wednesday, December 8 1999

• Re: cynicism, agunot, solving the problem...
• Re: Tenth Man
• Tenth Man
• Agunah
• agunah
• Re: cynicism, agunot, solving the problem...
• Re: cynicism, agunot, solving the problem...
• Re: cynicism, agunot, solving the problem...
• X-mas tunes
• RE: cynicism, agunot, solving the problem...
• RE: cynicism, agunot, solving the problem...
• RE: Agunah
• RE: cynicism, agunot, solving the problem...
• Re: cynicism, agunot, solving the problem...
• Re: cynicism, agunot, solving the problem...
• Re: agunah
• Re: X-mas tunes
• RE: cynicism, agunot, solving the problem...

Freda Birnbaum wrote:

>>1. "The rabbis", and the religion, are involved with every aspect of 
life.  When one party is using the halacha to do an injustice to another 
party, whether in business or in marital life, it is davka the business of 
those
in charge to fix the loopholes.>>

I think you are confusing Judaism with some other religion.  The "rabbis" 
are not in charge of Judaism.  They clarify the religion and make decisions 
in interpreting it but they cannot change the basic facts of it.  We are 
dealing with very serious de'oraisa issues and you cannot demand that the 
"rabbis" (as if there was any semblance of organization among them) simply 
ignore those issues.


>>2. It is not "a generous help" for the police to catch criminals, for 
judges to render judgments, etc.  It's their job.>>

Of course it is.  They CHOSE their positions and can easily abdicate them.  
They are willing to tolerate the discomforts and stress of their positions 
for the better good of society and they deserve our gratitude for their 
effort.  Waiters get tips.  Cab drivers get tips.  Can't rabbis get a 
little gratitude also?  (BTW, I'm not a rabbi)


>>But stonewalling with the idea that "the rabbis" have been "dissed" 
(disrespected) when demands are made for repair of inequities... that's not 
a very impressive place for anybody to be.>>

There are a number of hard-working rabbis who are spending enormous amounts 
of time and effort trying to improve the situation.  There has been a good 
deal of back and forth regarding Get laws and prenuptial agreements.  The 
fact is that most rabbis have their hands tied.  There is no consensus 
among rabbis - much less among laypeople to listen to their rabbis.  Let's 
take an informal poll.  How many people on this list used a prenuptial 
agreement requiring a get upon civil divorce?  Personally, I only know of 
one person.

Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 09:41:50 -0500
From: gil.student@citicorp.com
Subject: Re: Tenth Man
....

I have the problem of how many people I have to wait for before starting 
chazaras hashatz.  I believe it is black on white in the Shulchan Aruch 
that without ten people who have finished davenning it is almost a berachah 
levatalah (some allow with nine) but there is always pressure to start 
before that.  The obvious answer is to daven very slowly so that I am the 
last to finish.  However, when you have a minyan metzumtzam and one guy is 
a v-e-r-y l-o-n-g davenner that is not possible.
====================================================

It should be noted that this is not as much of a problem after shemonah
esrai of maariv (or mincha, if after a haicha kedusha), since one need only
wait for six people who have finished their silent shemonah esrai to say
kadish.  See OC 55 (and the MB there, who states that some acharonim are
machmir to wait for 9.)

   ~ Aryeh 

Given: a minyan metzumtzam
Q: Are the nine others empowered to demand that the 10th one speed up?

Rich Wolpoe

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
I believe it is black on white in the Shulchan Aruch that without ten people who
have finished davenning it is almost a berachah levatalah ...

> But the aguna problem *is not* a loophole. The guy may be a creep, but we
> *can't* force him to divorce his wife. And we *can't* just decide the
> marriage was invalid.

Actually we CAN force him - Rambam - You can beat him up until he  agrees,

A real Agunah is where the husband disappears.

in the last 2 wks there was the saga of an aguna issue in London----where
people began picketing the family kosher restaurant.  it ended with the
chief rabbi sitting on a beit din to get her the get.  {see the Jewish
chronicle, web site].  while i doubt most mesarvim wouldn't be able to
withstand a visit from rav moshe for example, that might be the only
rabbinic input that would work...

From: <gil.student@citicorp.com>
To: <fbb6@columbia.edu>; <avodah@aishdas.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 1999 2:29 PM
Subject: Re: cynicism, agunot, solving the problem...


> Freda Birnbaum wrote:
>
> >>1. "The rabbis", and the religion, are involved with every aspect of
> life.  When one party is using the halacha to do an injustice to another
> party, whether in business or in marital life, it is davka the business of
> those
> in charge to fix the loopholes.>>
>
> I think you are confusing Judaism with some other religion.  The "rabbis"
> are not in charge of Judaism.  They clarify the religion and make
decisions
> in interpreting it but they cannot change the basic facts of it.  We are
> dealing with very serious de'oraisa issues and you cannot demand that the
> "rabbis" (as if there was any semblance of organization among them) simply
> ignore those issues.

    Noone is suggesting that issues be ignored.  What is being suggested is
that plight of aggunot be given the attention and publicity that it
deserves.  The issue can no llonger be swept under the carpet; nor can it be
haltingly discused behind closed doors.
>
>
> >>2. It is not "a generous help" for the police to catch criminals, for
> judges to render judgments, etc.  It's their job.>>
>
> Of course it is.  They CHOSE their positions and can easily abdicate them.
> They are willing to tolerate the discomforts and stress of their positions
> for the better good of society and they deserve our gratitude for their
> effort.  Waiters get tips.  Cab drivers get tips.  Can't rabbis get a
> little gratitude also?  (BTW, I'm not a rabbi)

    This is a bit truncated a view of things.  Gratitude, if it comes at
all, is the result of a job well done.  It is not an entitlement merely for
assuming a task.
>
>
> >>But stonewalling with the idea that "the rabbis" have been "dissed"
> (disrespected) when demands are made for repair of inequities... that's
not
> a very impressive place for anybody to be.>>
>
> There are a number of hard-working rabbis who are spending enormous
amounts
> of time and effort trying to improve the situation.

    Really?  How many institues are dedicated to this issue?  By way of
example, Zomet was founded to deal with the relationship of Halacha to ever
increasing a problematic technology (BTW they do trmendous work)  Which
kolel/yeshiva/beth din/institute is dedicated to relieving the suffering of
aggunot?  I know of one, headed by Rabbi Rackman.  He has practically had
his head handed to him for his efforts.  Other prominent rabbanim make great
speeches, and then do nothing.  At an Agudah convention a few years back one
very prominent rosh yeshiva condemed men who refuse to give gittin to a
special place in hell.  What has he done since that teary eyes lament to
help these women?  He's done nothing.

 There has been a good
> deal of back and forth regarding Get laws and prenuptial agreements.  The
> fact is that most rabbis have their hands tied.

    In the 1920's and '30s the problems facing Judaism were not iggun.  It
was kashrut of meat.  Many rabbis then too said that their hands are tied.
Unscrupulous and corrupt shochtim, bodkim, mashgichim, rabbanim, and abatoir
owners made it impossible to vouchsafe the kashrut of meat.  Rabbis didn't
give up.  They persevered and created insitutional Kashrut certification.
Rabbis hands may be tied on this issue; but they are bound by ropes of their
own creation.  Where there is a rabbinic will, a rabbinic way is sought.  I
do not believe that there has been enough "blood sweat and tears" put into
this issue to justify a blithe statement of "our hands are tied, too bad so
sad."

    There is no consensus
> among rabbis - much less among laypeople to listen to their rabbis.

    When has the unwilingness of the laity to heed a rabbis admonition ever
stopped a rabbi before?

 Let's
> take an informal poll.  How many people on this list used a prenuptial
> agreement requiring a get upon civil divorce?

    First of all, in NY, the RCA pre-nup, in it's current form is legally
unenforceable.  As a practical matter it does little to protect poor wives.

 Personally, I only know of
> one person.

    Well now you've met one more.
>
>

A number of months ago, the Jewish Week carried an article announcing the
opposition of the Young Israel movement to R. Rackman's Bet Din Lebayaot
Agunna.  As counsel to the bet din, I wrote the following unpublished
response.  I think it may help readers on this list understand the depth of
the issues :

..

      I am an Orthodox Jew.  I am a member of the Orthodox Union, and my
father was a founder of a Young Israel Schul where my grandfather was
rabbi.  Indeed all rabbis to whom I turn for Halachic guidance are members
of the Rabbinical Council of America.  I am also a realist and see first
hand the plight of aggunot.  I  represent them in  the trial courts of New
York in their divorces. I go with them to Bet Din to obtain their GITTIN  I
have experienced first hand and heard the smug threats from husbands that
they will not grant a GET unless a woman totally concedes to all their
wishes.  I have seen husbands abuse their wives by witholding a GET since a
protective order bars them from beating them with anything else.  I have
heard rabbis tell me they will not help an aguna unless she waives every
last legal right she has and submits issues such a child custody  to the
illegal jurisdiction of a Bet Din.   I am exposed to the hurt and
frustration of these women when the men they once loved, the fathers of
their children impose such mental anguish on them.  They often sit and cry
in my office
      I do not believe that rabbis are callous to the suffering of these
women.  They are however afraid to take bold steps to help them.  They fear
the missiles that might pass over their right shoulders if they did.  Rabbi
Rackman, Rabbi Morgenstern and Rabbi Antelman are not afraid.  Threy have
what they beleive to be a workable solution.  If the RCA, Young Israel or
Aguda disagree with those methods, they are entitled to so disagree.  Time
will tell if it is a "makhloket lesheim Shamaiim", a dispute in the name of
Heaven, or something else entirely.  But the suffering of these women is
too great for rabbis to merely debate the theoretical aspects of the aguna
problem.  They have had enough time to do that.  Orthodox women in general
and Aggunot in particular have lost their patience with the debate, the
entreaties to be patient and what in their opinion are the rivers of
crocodile tears shed.  They want action.  Two years ago a member of the
Moetzet Gedolei Torah  in  a key note address at the annual Agudath Israel
convention, decried and condemed those men who withold a GET.  Has that
rabbi proposed a soultion to the problem since that moving sermon?
Internecine fighting is no longer acceptable.  Rabbi Rackman and his
colleagues have thrown down the gauntlet.  If other rabbis do not   approve
of his Bet Din Lebayot Aguna, they should  propose something better.  I'm
sure Rabbis Rackman and Morgenstern will not be offended.

On a tangent: For those that hold that the rabbis of this BD are marbeh
mamzerim r"l etc., would it be permitted to be legal counsel to such an
organization, or would that be considered mesayeh yedei ovrei aveira?

Yosef Gavriel Bechhofer
Cong. Bais Tefila, 3555 W. Peterson Ave., Chicago, IL 60659
http://www.aishdas.org/baistefila    ygb@aishdas.org

----- Original Message -----
From: Daniel B. Schwartz <SCHWARTZESQ@WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
To: <avodah@aishdas.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 1999 1:56 PM
Subject: Re: cynicism, agunot, solving the problem...


> A number of months ago, the Jewish Week carried an article announcing the
> opposition of the Young Israel movement to R. Rackman's Bet Din Lebayaot
> Agunna.  As counsel to the bet din, I wrote the following unpublished
> response.  I think it may help readers on this list understand the depth
of
> the issues :
>
> .
>
>       I am an Orthodox Jew.  I am a member of the Orthodox Union, and my
> father was a founder of a Young Israel Schul where my grandfather was
> rabbi.  Indeed all rabbis to whom I turn for Halachic guidance are members
> of the Rabbinical Council of America.  I am also a realist and see first
> hand the plight of aggunot.  I  represent them in  the trial courts of New
> York in their divorces. I go with them to Bet Din to obtain their GITTIN
I
> have experienced first hand and heard the smug threats from husbands that
> they will not grant a GET unless a woman totally concedes to all their
> wishes.  I have seen husbands abuse their wives by witholding a GET since
a
> protective order bars them from beating them with anything else.  I have
> heard rabbis tell me they will not help an aguna unless she waives every
> last legal right she has and submits issues such a child custody  to the
> illegal jurisdiction of a Bet Din.   I am exposed to the hurt and
> frustration of these women when the men they once loved, the fathers of
> their children impose such mental anguish on them.  They often sit and cry

> in my office
>       I do not believe that rabbis are callous to the suffering of these
> women.  They are however afraid to take bold steps to help them.  They
fear
> the missiles that might pass over their right shoulders if they did.
Rabbi
> Rackman, Rabbi Morgenstern and Rabbi Antelman are not afraid.  Threy have
> what they beleive to be a workable solution.  If the RCA, Young Israel or
> Aguda disagree with those methods, they are entitled to so disagree.  Time
> will tell if it is a "makhloket lesheim Shamaiim", a dispute in the name
of
> Heaven, or something else entirely.  But the suffering of these women is
> too great for rabbis to merely debate the theoretical aspects of the aguna
> problem.  They have had enough time to do that.  Orthodox women in general
> and Aggunot in particular have lost their patience with the debate, the
> entreaties to be patient and what in their opinion are the rivers of
> crocodile tears shed.  They want action.  Two years ago a member of the
> Moetzet Gedolei Torah  in  a key note address at the annual Agudath Israel
> convention, decried and condemed those men who withold a GET.  Has that
> rabbi proposed a soultion to the problem since that moving sermon?
> Internecine fighting is no longer acceptable.  Rabbi Rackman and his
> colleagues have thrown down the gauntlet.  If other rabbis do not
approve
> of his Bet Din Lebayot Aguna, they should  propose something better.  I'm
> sure Rabbis Rackman and Morgenstern will not be offended.
>
>
>
>

> I've never understood Drummer Boy. On the old West Side of Chicago,
> drummer boys were underage kids who carried sample cases for older
> door-to-door salesmen. Before that, they were the 10-year-olds killed
> off by the hundreds leading Union troops to their doom in places like
> Shiloh or Chickamauga Creek. How either figure cuts a religious image
> is beyond me.

I think the point of it is some kid who has no big gift to offer, just
playing a tune on his drum... shades of the unlettered boy who could only
recite the aleph-bes/whistle/etc. on Yom Kippur.

> O Holy Night is my favorite, too. It's title, however, is "Silent
> Night"  (Schtille Nacht, excuse the spelling). German imagery of total
> silence is hard for me to deal with.

AFAIK, they are distinct songs; the first line of "Oh Holy Night" begins
"Oh, holy night, the stars are brightly shining" and the other one (Silent
Night/Stille Nacht) begins, "Silent Night, holy night, all is calm, all is
bright". (Might be by Martin Luther but I could be confusing that with
something else.)

The things you pick up in public school (especially in North Carolina in
the 1950's)...

Freda Birnbaum, fbb6@columbia.edu
"Call on God, but row away from the rocks"

> women.  They are however afraid to take bold steps to help
> them.  They fear
> the missiles that might pass over their right shoulders if
> they did.

No, they're afraid of being responsible for introducing mamzerim into Clal
Yisroel.

> Rabbi
> Rackman, Rabbi Morgenstern and Rabbi Antelman are not afraid.

and according to most Poskim are producing mamzerim.

Which causes an even greater problem -- have you ever met a mamzer? I had a
friend in yeshiva who found out, when he went to the rabbinut to get his
marriage license, that he was a mamzer. How do you think he feels, knowing
he can *never* (practically) marry?

These women at least can hope for the day their (ex) husband dies...

Akiva

===========================
Akiva Atwood
POB 27515
Jerusalem, Israel 91274

>

> special place in hell.  What has he done since that teary
> eyes lament to
> help these women?  He's done nothing.

How do you *know* this? Are you privy to his private counsel, his private
learning?

Also, a Rosh Yeshiva is not necessarily a Posek.

> Rabbis hands may be tied on this issue; but they are bound by
> ropes of their own creation.

Silly me -- I thought the Torah was of Divine creation...

> Where there is a rabbinic will, a rabbinic way
> is sought.

Sought, yes. Found, not always.

> I
> do not believe that there has been enough "blood sweat and
> tears" put into
> this issue to justify a blithe statement of "our hands are
> tied, too bad so sad."

Again, how do you know how much time the Poskim put into the issue? I'd
wager that the Major Poskim spend a disproportionate amount of time on this
issue (on the issue, not ignoring it).


===========================
Akiva Atwood
POB 27515
Jerusalem, Israel 91274

> Actually we CAN force him - Rambam - You can beat him up
> until he  agrees,

True -- but only certain types of Beis-din can order that, and the secular
courts would arrest the Beis Din for ordering the assault.

>
> A real Agunah is where the husband disappears.
>

I know.

Akiva


===========================
Akiva Atwood
POB 27515
Jerusalem, Israel 91274

Re recent responses:

> > whether in business or in marital life, it is davka the
> > business of those in charge to fix the loopholes.
> 
> But the aguna problem *is not* a loophole. The guy may be a creep, but
> we *can't* force him to divorce his wife. And we *can't* just decide
> the marriage was invalid.
> 
> > 2. It is not "a generous help" for the police to catch criminals, for
> > judges to render judgments, etc.  It's their job.
> 
> But a rabbi is not a policeman or a judge, in the sense you mean.
> Historically, yes, in a *Torah-based* society where torah law could be
> enforced. Today, no.

> I think you are confusing Judaism with some other religion.  The
> "rabbis"  are not in charge of Judaism.  They clarify the religion and
> make decisions in interpreting it but they cannot change the basic
> facts of it.  We are dealing with very serious de'oraisa issues and
> you cannot demand that the "rabbis" (as if there was any semblance of
> organization among them) simply ignore those issues.

>>2. It is not "a generous help" for the police to catch criminals, for 
judges to render judgments, etc.  It's their job.>>

> Of course it is.  They CHOSE their positions and can easily abdicate
> them.  They are willing to tolerate the discomforts and stress of
> their positions for the better good of society and they deserve our
> gratitude for their effort.  Waiters get tips.  Cab drivers get tips.  
> Can't rabbis get a little gratitude also?  (BTW, I'm not a rabbi)

Okay, folks. You're right.  The religion is doing a wonderful job of
solving this problem.  I hope you'll be as sanguine, and as smug and
satisfied with your righteousness and your stalwart defense of the faith
when (r"l) it happens to someone in your family.

If "they" can solve the problem re interest on loans, "they" can solve
this one.  This one is not only ruining women's lives, it's destroying
unborn generations -- all those babies not being born because those who
would have been their mothers can't remarry.  If you don't care about the
women, at least care about the population increase.

If you're not able to be part of the solution, at least don't defend an
unjust system, or say that it's impossible to fix it.  The very least I'd
expect from a "Torah" person is that he understand that there is a
problem!!

Freda Birnbaum, fbb6@columbia.edu

I tried to comment before, less directly, on people arguing about people
instead of issues. As we're moving from wholesale insult of overwhelming
majority of the rabbinate to also including retail comments about members
of this list, I feel I ought to speak more strongly.

I will not allow people to accuse the Rabbinate of not caring or not trying
hard enough unless they can prove their point. As I see it, the literature
of the past decade or two has many examples of people exploring solutions
for agunos. As we are a sample of the community, we can also read the tenor
here as proof that the "Rabbinic will" is there.

So why no solution?

Maybe there isn't one. Or, maybe you're expecting halachah to moves in ways
in can't. Or maybe something else.

But jumping to assign blame to whole groups of people, in particular, laying
doubt to the authority of Orthodox religious leadership across the spectrum,
is inappropriate and not what Avodah is supposed to be about.




Which brings me to another irritant. We've been a bit heavy on societal issues,
and somewhat weak on discussions of Avodas Hashem. Such is within the guidelines
of the list as understood by the regulars I polled, but I personally (not
speaking as list owner, but as a reader) enjoy the divrei Torah more. I can't
believe no one has new he'oros to share on the subject.

-mi

-- 
Micha Berger (973) 916-0287          MMG"H for  8-Dec-99: Revi'i, Miketz
micha@aishdas.org                                         A"H 
http://www.aishdas.org                                    Pisachim 80b
For a mitzvah is a lamp, and the Torah its light.         Melachim-II 7

----- Original Message -----
From: Akiva Atwood <atwood@netvision.net.il>
To: <avodah@aishdas.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 1999 3:15 PM
Subject: RE: cynicism, agunot, solving the problem...


> > women.  They are however afraid to take bold steps to help
> > them.  They fear
> > the missiles that might pass over their right shoulders if
> > they did.
>
> No, they're afraid of being responsible for introducing mamzerim into Clal
> Yisroel.
>
> > Rabbi
> > Rackman, Rabbi Morgenstern and Rabbi Antelman are not afraid.
>
> and according to most Poskim are producing mamzerim.

    Really?  Which poskim have putrightly said that?  I read with great
interest Rabbi J. David Bleich's attack on the Beth Din.  If he is nothing
else, R. Bleich is thorough in his citation.  He makes no such reference.
Additionally, When Michael Rackman, Rabbi Rackman's son, submitted a well
thought out, albeit slightly defensive rejoinder to R. Bleich's piece, R.
Bleich did little more than reply with an ad hominum attack on Mr. Rackman.
This issue has seen a tremendous paucity of honest intellectual debate.
Additionally, I respectfully submit, that in light of the gravity of the
situation, merely rejecting a proposed solution is not sufficient.  It is
high time the rabbinic world displayed it's prowess wrt to this matter.  The
theological consequences of it not are astounding.  Are rabbis prepared to
admit that Judaism, the word of G-d is imperfect and allows the gravest of
injustice to abide?  I think not.
>
> Which causes an even greater problem -- have you ever met a mamzer? I had
a
> friend in yeshiva who found out, when he went to the rabbinut to get his
> marriage license, that he was a mamzer. How do you think he feels, knowing
> he can *never* (practically) marry?

    I would guess that a mamzer has more tikkunim available to him than does
an agguna.  Again it's a matter of priorities.
>
> These women at least can hope for the day their (ex) husband dies...
    And ohh how we pine. . .
>
> Akiva
>
> ===========================
> Akiva Atwood
> POB 27515
> Jerusalem, Israel 91274
>
> >
>
>

Touche!

Rich Wolpoe


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
 it ended with the chief rabbi sitting on a beit din to

 get her the get.  

Stille nacht / Silent Night

try Franz Gruber (sorry no umlaut on this keyboard!)

Rich Wolpoe
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________

AFAIK, they are distinct songs; the first line of "Oh Holy Night" begins 
"Oh, holy night, the stars are brightly shining" and the other one (Silent 
Night/Stille Nacht) begins, "Silent Night, holy night, all is calm, all is 
bright". (Might be by Martin Luther but I could be confusing that with 
something else.)


Freda Birnbaum, fbb6@columbia.edu
"Call on God, but row away from the rocks"

From "Akiva Atwood" 
> From Freda Birnbaum
 
> > 2. It is not "a generous help" for the police to catch criminals, for
> > judges to render judgments, etc.  It's their job.
 
> But a rabbi is not a policeman or a judge, in the sense you mean.
> Historically, yes, in a *Torah-based* society where torah law could be
> enforced. Today, no.

Which is precisely the problem.

Appointing policemen and judges (shoftim veshotrim) is a Torah
mitzvah.  Rabbanim are our policemen and judges.  If they have 
ceased to play this role, it is our duty to find others who will
do this work.  The official agunah support groups (Agunah Inc.
and GET) cannot and do not support illegal enforcement activities,
e.g., thugs sent by beis din to force the husband, as per Rambam,
but absent other methods, it's a method supported by halacha.

Is halacha a dead letter, or is it a guide to life?  When was there ever
a Torah-based society in which torah law could be enforced, at least since
the time of Shlomo haMelech?  There were non-Torah-based societies in
which the rabbanim found ways to enforce Torah law, e.g., through
excommunication, the kipah in antiquity, etc.

Is modern society, where Jews are no longer ghettoized, so different
from any society conceivable by halacha, that the rabbanim can find no
way to enforce the halacha? to restore the equity granted by the takanah
Rabbenu Gershom that women must consent to divorce? to engage in the kind
of sympathy encouraged by the ethico-legal works?

New situations have arisen, and halacha has always found ways to deal
with them.  Today we have an explosion of husbands blackmailing wives
to force a favorable financial settlement.  Women, in this open society,
could easily leave the Torah society and remarry under non-halachic 
systems.  Do the rabbis of today want to encourage this?  If so, they
can continue on the road documented in so many tragic tales (Ms. Ragen's
cases notwithstanding), keep divorce under wraps, keep women chained to
unscrupulous husbands, not do their darnedest to find a systematic way
to counteract the explosion of extortion.  R' Rackman had the right idea,
if the wrong solution: find a systematic solution to a systematic problem.

Is the halacha a dead letter, in which case it will be chucked, or is
it a living, eternal, dynamic system founded on ancient principles?

I won't go so far as Blu Greenberg in saying "where there's a rabbinic 
will, there's a halachic way", but why don't we ever hear about attempts
to find a systematic solution, other than R' Rackman's?  We hear about
individual rabbis doing tremendous things to free individual agunot,
we hear about individual rabbis doing horrendous things to dismiss the
concerns of individual agunot, but we don't hear about potential solutions
to the class of extortion-agunot.


BTW, if you haven't noticed yet, as a pessimist I'm much better at
describing problems than at suggesting workable solutions.

JJB

*********************


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