Avodah Mailing List

Volume 04 : Number 087

Sunday, October 31 1999

• RE: GETTING UP IN MORNING -- RASHI
• Re: Luxuries
• Conspicuous consumption, Luxuries, Tznius [was What Else]
• Re: Luxuries
• Re: What Else-Tzni'us in Material Acquisitions
• Re: Conspicuous consumption
• Re: Megilah 025b: Kri u'Ksiv
• re: Request not to Crack Jokes about G-d
• conspicuous consumption

This question (on why the Tnach says certain people
get up in the morning) was completely discussed in 
Volume 3 number 15 of Rashi is simple and can be
found at (http://www.shamash.org/rashi/v1a22-3.htm)

The posting is attached below but a brief summary
will help.

I basically REVIEWED ALL VERSES where someone
got up early. I found that 

--In 7 of them we see a clear EAGERNESS to do something
(eg Abraham, moses, Balak were all eager to perform acts)

--In 5 of them it happened the morning after a prophetic
dream

--the remaining 3 are problematic and Rashi brings (in
some of them) special midrashim (I supply midrashim
for those that are missing).

Please visit my Rashi website for details. For those
who want the complete post it is attached. For
those who only wish to see the list of examples
go to the LIST section immediately

Russell Hendel; Phd ASA
Moderator Rashi Is Simple
http://www.shamash.org/rashi/

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*# (C) Dr Hendel, 1999 *#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*

VERSE: v1a22-3

        v1a22-3 And Abraham got up in the morning

        v1b22-3 and he harnessed his donkey

        v4a22-21 And Bilam got up in the morning and
                harnessed his donkey

        v2-7-15 Go to Pharoh in the morning, behold
                he goes out to the Nile

        v1-46-29 And Joseph harnessed his donkey

RASHI TEXT:

        v1a22-3 "Abraham got up in the morning"
                >>Morning means early
                He(Abraham) was eager to do the Mitzvah

        v1b22-3 '**HE** harnessed his donkey'
                >>HE himself without any help
                This shows that EAGERNESS whether for LOVE
                or HATRED overturns power (ie he didn't
                ask his servants to harness but did it
                himself because of his eagerness)

        v4a22-21 'Bilam go up and harnessed his donkey'
                He did it himself without any help
                This shows that EAGERNESS overturns power


        v2-7-15 Pharoh claimed that he was a God.
                To prove this he abstained from bathroom functions
                all day.
                To accomplish this he went to the bathroom by the
                Nile in the morning (when no one could see him).

        v1-46-29 Joseph himself harnessed his donkey (even
                though he had many servants) in order to meet his
                father.

BRIEF BUT COMPLETE NARRATIVE EXPLANATION:

These Rashis are a peach on how to learn Rashi.

One traditional approach to Rashi suggests that
        >>No word in the Torah is waisted
Another traditional approach to Rashi seeks the PROBLEM of Rashi
        >>Why mention he got up in the Morning.

Both these approaches are unsatisfactory. They don't help the
student learn Chumash in general.

A more satisfactory approach is to look at LISTS.

{LIST1} contains all (or most verses) in the Torah of events
that were done in the Morning.

We are not BOTHERED by the word MORNING. Nor is it extra.
But it is a style. We can ask what this style indicates. What
does the Chumash (or any Author) indicate when it says that
something happened in the morning.

A perusal of the list shows that the rule is as follows:
        >>MORNING connotes EAGERNESS
        >>or
        >>MORNING is used after a (prophetic) dream happened
        >>on the previous night.

We immediately see that
---Abraham was eager to perform the mitzvah to bind Isaac and
        >>Got up in the morning
   even though it hurt him to sacrifice Isaac

The important point about using our approach of LISTS is that
IT GENERALIZES to  ALL EXAMPLES.

Thus
--Abraham was eager to Banish Ishmael, even though it hurt him,
since it was a prophetic order (1-21-14)
--Isaac was eager to make a treaty even though he was hated(1-26-31)
--Moses was eager to receive the Torah (2-24-4)
--The Jews were eager to repent and obtain Israel(4-14-40)

Notice how our LIST enables us to APPLY a principle (MORNING
connotes EAGERNESS) to many new cases and learn new ideas.

Continuing with this theme we see that
--Bilam was EAGER (got up in the morning) to curse the Jews(4-22-13

Is this a correct inference?

Yes. For another Midrash Rabbah (cited by several Rashis) shows
us that 4 wealthy people in the Torah harnessed their donkey
themselves (rather than use their servants) because of their
eagerness. These 4 eager people are
---Abraham harnessed the donkey himself to do Gods commandment1-22-3
---Joseph harnessed the donkey himself to meet his father 1-46-29
---Bilam harnessed the donkey himself to curse the Jews 4-22-21
---Pharoh harnessed the donkey himself to curse the Jews 2-14-6

We see from these 4 examples that EAGERNESS whether for
--LOVE   (Abraham, Joseph) or
--HATRED (Bilam Pharoh)
can lead to personal actions and non use of power (servants).

This of course is simply a MORAL LESSON learned from the Torah
which Rashi does on occasion (Provided it is backed up by a list).

To finish we examine the other cases where something happened in
the morning.

We see several examples of GETTING UP IN THE MORNING after a
prophetic dream even though no EAGERNESS is present
--Pharoh 1-41-8
--Avimelech 1-20-8
Thus even though the Midrash doesn't say this explicitly we
propose a second rule for when GETTING UP IN THE MORNING IS
USED--namely, after a prophetic dream.

Again we can apply this to new situations. We infer from 1-40-6
that Joseph would deliberately get up early in the morning to
help inmates by interpreting their dreams.

Finally, {LIST1} has 3 exceptions---verses which show no
        >>EAGERNESS or
        >>AFTER A DREAM

Because of the success of the MORNING RULE in other verses
we therefore seek to harmonize the rule in these 2 cases.

---In 2-7-15 we should bring in the OTHER VERSE Ez29-3
        >> To me (Pharoh) is the Nile, I have made it
        (ie I am a god)

Building on this theme that
        >>I am a god<<
Rashi hypothesizes that Pharoh proved his divinity by not going
to the bathroom. He in turn abstained from not going to the
bathroom by going to the nile in the morning.

An alternative explantion is that Pharoh got up early to worship
the nile--the verse shows his eagerness to worship the nile just
as the verses show Bilams eagerness to curse the Jews.

I believe both these interpretations are good.

---In 1-32-1 we have the most difficult case.
        >>Laban got up early
But it was NOT
        >>the aftermath of any dream
        >>because of eagerness to leave his family!!
Since this verse is the ONLY exception to the rule the Midrash
Rabbah (on this verse) felt compelled to harmonize the rule
        >>MORNING denotes EAGERNESS or
        >>MORNING denotes AFTERMATH of a dream
with the verse
        >>Laban got up in the morning.

The obscure Midrash on this verse states that
        >>Bandits had robbed his house from all its wealth
        >>and this was bothering him all night so he couldn't
        >>sleep. (Because he only had wealth because of Jacob
        >>so that when Jacob left he lost it).
Because this Midrash is so fanciful Rashi left it out. It is
conceivable there are other explanations. At any rate the
other examples in the list are OK.

Let us summarize the methodology here

---If you see a Rashi confirm it with a LIST

---Do not confirm it with 'Why is there an extra word' unless
this extra word is always used in this way

---Once you make the list you can learn new applications of
the rule (This is an important benefit of learning using lists)

---You also have the right to observe new subrules (like the
MORNING AFTER A DREAM subrule)

---Finally the exciting thing about lists is the rich attempts
at accounting for exceptions.



COMMENTS ON RASHI'S FORM:

This is an important Rashi on techniques. We show that
even if Rashi gives one example we can still

---make lists that apply to many cases
---apply the rule to the other cases
---develop new subrules
---study exceptions.

The student who wants to UNDERSTAND RASHI AND MIDRASH
should read this posting over several times till the
methods and reasons for each Midrash and Rashi become
clear.



LISTS {For ADVANCED students and for those with more time}:

{LIST1} {Of verses where people GOT UP IN THE MORNING. The rule
        is that GETTING UP IN THE MORNING is a stylistic method
        of indicating
                >>EAGERNESS TO DO SOMETHING
                >>The MORNING AFTER A (PROPHETIC) DREAM
        There are 3 exceptions to this rule which are dealt
        with in the footnotes. Rashi used workbook methods here..
        Rashi explained a few of the examples and let us complete
        the rest}

VERSE   WHAT WAS DONE         WHO WAS EAGER & WHY               NOTE
======= ===================== ================================= ====
1-19-27 Prayer for Sedom      Abraham eager to help others       *1
1-21-14 Banishment of Ishmael Eager to perform a prophetic order *1
1-22-3  Sacrifice of Isaac    Eager to perform a prophetic order *1
1-26-31 Treaty of Beer Sheva  Isaac was eager even though hated  *1
2-24-4  Receipt of Torah      Moses was eager to do a Mitzvah    *1
4-14-40 Repentance from Spies Jews eager to go to Israel         *1
4-22-13 Curse of Jews         Balak was eager to curse Jews      *1
1-40-6  Aftermath of a dream  Jsph helped to interpret dreams    *2
1-41-8  Aftermath of a dream  Pharohs dream on 7 years of pleny  *2
1-28-18 Aftermath of a dream  Gods promise to be with Jacob      *2
1-20-8  Aftermath of a dream  Warning by God not to molest Sarah *2
1-24-54 Eliezer leaves Laban  Afraid of being double crossed     *3
1-32-1  Special case          Midrash claims he was robbed       *3
2-7-15  special case          Didn't want anyone seeing him      *3


FOOTNOTES
*1 In all these cases the person who got up were eager to
do a prophetic order EVEN THOUGH it might not be beneficial
to them. Thus Abraham was eager to get up even though he had
to Banish Ishmael. The application of this principle to 1-19-27
is not explicit in any commentary but fits in perfectly with
the list...Abraham wanted to pray for the welfare of others.

*2 In all these cases the getting up in the morning is the
aftermath of a dream. Furthermore no EAGERNESS is present.
Hence we consider this a second reason for mentioning MORNING.

*3 These 3 verses are exceptions to the rule
        >>MORNING denotes EAGERNESS
        >>MORNING denotes the aftermath of a dream
---In 1-24-54  it is clear from the verses that Eliezer was
worried that Laban would double cross him and therefore wanted
to leave early.

The other two verses are difficult.

---In 2-7-15 we should bring in the OTHER VERSE Ez29-3
        >> To me (Pharoh) is the Nile, I have made it
        (ie I am a god)

Building on this theme that
        >>I am a god<<
Rashi hypothesizes that Pharoh proved his divinity by not going
to the bathroom. He in turn abstained from not going to the
bathroom by going to the nile in the morning.

An alternative explantion is that Pharoh got up early to worship
the nile--the verse shows his eagerness to worship the nile just
as the verses show Bilams eagerness to curse the Jews.

I believe both these interpretations are good.

---In 1-32-1 we have the most difficult case.
        >>Laban got up early
But it was NOT
        >>the aftermath of any dream
        >>because of eagerness to leave his family!!
Since this verse is the ONLY exception to the rule the Midrash
Rabbah (on this verse) felt compelled to harmonize the rule
        >>MORNING denotes EAGERNESS or
        >>MORNING denotes AFTERMATH of a dream
with the verse
        >>Laban got up in the morning.

The obscure Midrash on this verse states that
        >>Bandits had robbed his house from all its wealth
        >>and this was bothering him all night so he couldn't
        >>sleep. (Because he only had wealth because of Jacob
        >>so that when Jacob left he lost it).
Because this Midrash is so fanciful Rashi left it out. It is
conceivable there are other explanations. At any rate the
other examples in the list are OK.

{LIST2} {List of people who harnessed donkeys themselves even
        though they had many servants. This list shows that
        EAGERNESS whether out of LOVE (Abraham, Joseph) or
        HATRED (Bilam Pharoh) overturns POWERS and leads
        people to do things themselves. This list was
        actually compiled by the MIDRASH RABBAH on 1-22-3.}

                                          HARNESSED
                                          DONKEY    WHY WERE
PERSON     KING/WEALTHY      HAD SERVANTS HIMSELF   THEY EAGER
=======    ================= ============ =======   ==========
Abraham    Wealthy           1-12-16      1-22-3    Do Mitzvah
Bilam      Didn't need money 4-24-13      4-22-21   Curse Jews
Joseph     King              1-41-42:44   1-46-29   Meet Father
Pharoh     King              2-14-6:9     2-14-6    Destroy Jews


CROSS REFERENCES:

ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS:

RULE CLASSIFICATION {See the web site for comparable examples}:
        USAGE   |   STYLE | MORNING
        MORAL LESSONS/REASONS
        USAGE   |   STYLE | MORNING
        MORAL LESSONS/REASONS
        MORAL LESSONS/REASONS

SQL {Database query comments for those who know Database theory}:


SELECT Verse FROM Bible WHERE
        Verse.Meaning <RefersTo> 'Getting up in Morning'

#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*# (C) Dr Hendel, 1999 *#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*


 

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In a message dated 10/31/99 3:36:58 PM US Central Standard Time, 
hmaryles@yahoo.com writes:

<< The question remains where do we draw the line and who
 draws it. 
 
 Should we really draw one at all? 
 
 Is the motivation of the conspicuous spender to show
 off how succesfull he is in contradistinction to his
 fellow man, at the expense of making him jealous?  Or,
 as in the case of the half million dollar wedding,
 does he just want every body to have a good time? 
 Perhaps it is a little of both.  >>


I can empathize with a guy who spends hundreds of thousands of dollars on a 
wedding so that he can give his many guests a good time. That's generosity, 
even if it allows one to show off. Conspicuous, yes; selfish, no. Even Veblen 
approved of the occasional good-hearted blowout.

I'm more concerned with the selfish little (and not so little) material 
indulgences that allow us to show our supposed superiority to our fellow 
Jews. Religious Judaism should be haven from such things. Otherwise it all 
becomes one big JUF event. 

David Finch

A few quick points regarding the several responses in V4#83 and #84 to my
earlier posts:

1.  I didn't realize any of my correspondents were in the frum wedding industry
and I certainly didn't mean to give offense. I do feel there is a powerful
industry-
wide interest in oppulent simchos, but that is not to say that any given
musician,
photographer, planner or caterer is doing anything wrong or improperly
motivated.

2.  MF thinks I'm advocating asceticism. I'm not and neither are the m'koros I
cited.
The virtues of histopkus and avoiding mosoros that don't contribute to avodas
hashem
are a far cry from asceticism. 

3.  HM suggests that the m'koros I cited are subject to interpretation. Its hard
to
argue with that, but if you have a different interpretation than mine or feel
there are
other relevant sources, let's discuss that. What do you have in mind?

4.  HM wants more info on R' Aaron Twerski's proposals regarding limiting
simchos.
See his articles The Time For Tikun Has Come and Reflections: One year Later
in The Jewish Observer, Shevat 5756/Feb. 1996 and Teves 5757/Jan. 1997. See
also Nisson Wolpin's article In Search of Simplicity in the former issue of JO.
I still
have my copies, and would gladly lend them to anyone who might be interested.

Again, my sincere apology to anyone I may have offended.

Kol tuv,
David

For those interested, check out the Kli Yakar on Devarim 2:3 b'emtza devarav 
"v'inyan hatzpana zo..." where he sharply condemns Jews who flaunt their 
wealth in front of our non-Jewish hosts.

Kol tuv
Elozor Preil

--------------013A1A79D126BDBAA86A9C4F
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You got that one all wrong it's not "sense of envy," we're talking
"sense of values!"
sk

harry maryles wrote:

> > The $500,000 wedding...
>
> > Basing our opinion on Torah sources in such matters
> > is especially
> > important because of the vanity of the very wealthy
> > who keep raising
> > the bar of social standards and expectations, and
> > the powerful self-interest
> > of the Frum wedding industry (caterers, mucisians,
> > party planners, etc.)
>
> I take strong exception to this. How dare you
> characterize the Frum wedding industry as negatively
> as you did.  My wife is a party planner and I am a
> videographer. I know many fine and Ehrliche people who
> are musicians, caterers, florists, photgraphers, etc.
> These are major sources of income to all of us.
> Although some would describe her as powerful:) no one
> would describe my wife as being self-interested! Don't
> forget by eliminating big weddings you are hurting the
> parnasah of many Ehrliche individuals.
>
> > in the continuation of the obscene spending that
> > puts ordinary families in
> > intolerable debt.
>
> As I said in another post, Klal Israel should be
> educated on how to deal better with their own sense of
> envy. No way should anyone feel that he has to borrow,
> or put a second mortgage on a house, in order to keep
> up with the "Friedmans"
>
>

--------------013A1A79D126BDBAA86A9C4F
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<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
You got that one all wrong it's not "sense of envy," we're talking "sense
of <u>values!"</u>
<br><u>sk</u>
<p>harry maryles wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>> The $500,000 wedding...
<p>> Basing our opinion on Torah sources in such matters
<br>> is especially
<br>> important because of the vanity of the very wealthy
<br>> who keep raising
<br>> the bar of social standards and expectations, and
<br>> the powerful self-interest
<br>> of the Frum wedding industry (caterers, mucisians,
<br>> party planners, etc.)
<p>I take strong exception to this. How dare you
<br>characterize the Frum wedding industry as negatively
<br>as you did.&nbsp; My wife is a party planner and I am a
<br>videographer. I know many fine and Ehrliche people who
<br>are musicians, caterers, florists, photgraphers, etc.
<br>These are major sources of income to all of us.
<br>Although some would describe her as powerful:) no one
<br>would describe my wife as being self-interested! Don't
<br>forget by eliminating big weddings you are hurting the
<br>parnasah of many Ehrliche individuals.
<p>> in the continuation of the obscene spending that
<br>> puts ordinary families in
<br>> intolerable debt.
<p>As I said in another post, Klal Israel should be
<br>educated on how to deal better with their own sense of
<br>envy. No way should anyone feel that he has to borrow,
<br>or put a second mortgage on a house, in order to keep
<br>up with the "Friedmans"
<br>&nbsp;
<br><a href="http://auctions.yahoo.com"></a>&nbsp;</blockquote>
</html>

--------------013A1A79D126BDBAA86A9C4F--

> Didn't the G'RA ossur the wearing and/or buying of fur coats? What would he have
> said about the kind of weddings HM writes about and likes so much. The shame of it
> is that there are too many of us who approve of that kind of conspicuous
> consumption.

sk

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 18:50:26 +0200 (IST)
From: Mordecai Kornfeld <kornfeld@netvision.net.il>

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_________________________________________________________________

               THE DAFYOMI DISCUSSION LIST

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 [REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE TO DISCUSS THE DAF WITH THE KOLLEL]
_________________________________________________________________

Megilah 025b: Kri u'Ktiv

Yitzchok Zirkind <avodah@aishdas.org> comments:

--------------
>> Reuven Miller <millerr@mail.biu.ac.il> asked:

From the mahalach of the Gemara, from the lashon of the Rach and of the 
Maharsha, it would seem that the changing of the ktiv to the kri in the tora 
is of Rabbinic origin. Is my understanding correct? <<

>> The Kollel replied: ... (As far as the words of the prophets are
concerned... the Kri and Ksiv must have been part of the original  Nevu'ah of 
the particular Navi who wrote that Sefer.) << 
--------------

See Megilah 7a Ksoiv Zois Zikoroin Basefer, and see the Sherei Korban on the 
Yerushalmi Megilah 1:5 D"H Nemroh Lmoshe Msinai.

Additional references for the Etzem Hoinyan, see the Mizrachi and Sefer 
Hazicoron on Rashi Breishis 18:22, and the Mizrachi Bamidbar.

Kol Tuv

Yitzchok Zirkind 
--------------------------------

The Kollel replies:

The SHIYAREI HA'KORBAN there cites the words of the YEFEI MAR'EH, who 
understands that all of the text of Megilas Esther was transmitted to Moshe 
Rabeinu to write down, and Moshe passed it on to the Gedolim of each 
generation who did not write it down until the times of Mordechai and Esther, 
after the miracle occurred.

His explanation is very farfetched and difficult to understand, both from a 
logical perspective, and from the text of the Yerushalmi there. Indeed, the 
Shiyarei ha'Korban himself refutes this explanation. (The correct explanation 
is that of the Korban ha'Eidah there.)

When the Shiyarei ha'Korban says that "'even the Chidushim that the students 
will be Mechadesh in the future were said to Moshe at Sinai' (referring to 
the Gemara in Megilah 10b) -- and certainly the words of the Nevi'im 
throughout the generations were given over to Moshe" -- this is also not at 
all clear. First, his logical extension to the words of the Nevi'im from the 
Chidushim of the Talmidim is not accurate, because the Chidushim deal with 
explanations of the Torah (the Chumash in particular) and have nothing to do 
with future events. Moreover, it has nothing to do with our topic, because 
the future Chidushim were not transmitted to Moshe in order to pass them on 
to ensuing generations, but rather for his own personal benefit, so that he 
should know all of the Chidushim that will be said in his Torah. Accordingly, 
it is obvious that this has nothing to do with saying that the Kri and Ksiv 
are Halachah l'Moshe mi'Sinai, meaning that there is a tradition handed done 
 from Moshe Rabeinu how to write the Pesukim of the Torah and of the Nevi'im.

With regard to the question whether it is possible to say that a Takanah of 
the Nevi'im is a Halachah l'Moshe mi'Sinai, the words of Rav Reuven 
Margolios, which we wrote earlier, are most accurate. See, however, the 
MAHARSHAL in Eruvin 5b and our INSIGHTS TO THE DAF there.

Kol tuv,

Mordecai

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A few days ago, someone posted the following:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Subject: b'rich sh'meh - (really) Bad Joke
Question: What is G-d's first name?
Answer:   Murray.
Question: how do you know?
Answer:   Because it says Brich Shmei de Murray Almo
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Dr Hendel responded:

<<< since an Issur DOraitha is involved in cracking Jokes about God I
would apprciate if we could have an offical policy statement (by esteemed
listowner) that such behavior is unacceptable. >>>

I'll be the first to agree the the joke is in very poor taste. (Or, given
the Subject line of the original poster, perhaps I count only as the
second person to say so.) But I am having some trouble identifying
exactly which issur Dr. Hendel is referring to. I'm not surprised that
there is one, but I'd like to know which. Heightening my awareness of
such things will help me avoid making such jokes myself.

Akiva Miller

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From: harry maryles <hmaryles@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: Luxuries
> 
> You know, I was thinking about that half million
> dollar wedding I attended, and it occurred to me that
> I had a great time at and so did everyone else that
> attended it (about 1200 people), at least that I spoke
> to about it.  I did not feel my eyes were being gouged
	I have been to weddings put on by "gvirim" which were not as lavish as
you describe,  although they were by no means spartan. I have also been
to weddings done nicely for much less,  about which I heard **NO** 
complaints that it was not sufficiently lavish.  

	OTOH there was a well publicized obscenity of a wedding in these parts a
few years ago which probably put your half mil job to shame.  The couple
got divorced a few months later.  While I have no idea why they did and
of course it was probably not related in any obvious manner to the
wedding,  still,    "ein lecha yafeh min hatznius"     which paraphrases
the way this thread began.

Gershon

********************


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