Avodah Mailing List

Volume 03 : Number 032

Monday, April 26 1999

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Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 11:15:21 +0300 (IDT)
From: Eli Turkel <turkel@math.tau.ac.il>
Subject:
Re: Avodah V3 #31


> Subject: Girsos and Halocho
> 
> Rich Wolpoe writes:
> : And, this is why I believe it is a bit dangerous to overturn minhoggim EVEN
> : when based upon a supposedly erroneous psak/girso/peshat. 
> : had faulty texts, or faulty udnerstandings of texts - 

But poskim do that all the time. I recently quoted a GRA about maamid of
schach that disagreed with Terumat HaDeshen based on the assumption that
He didn't see the Rashba. Maharik states explicitly that we follow the latest
achronim unless we feel they didn't see earlier opinions.

Many people e.g. maharsha. bach, Gra, spent much time fixing girsaot
because they felt it was important. Even Chazon Ish on occasion says
that we don't do things because of some sofer toeh.
Of course, this is not a broad license to change everything. But all
poskim change the girsa when they feel they have no choice.

Eli Turkel


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Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 07:08:27 -0500
From: "Richard K. Fiedler" <dfiedler@enteract.com>
Subject:
Re: Payment for Learning Torah


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>Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 17:50:00 -0400
>From: "Clark, Eli" <clarke@HUGHESHUBBARD.COM>
>Subject: Payment for Learning Torah
>
>Saul Davis quotes Judge Engelard to the effect that most Rishonim
>opposed the institution of kollel.  As most people are aware, Rambam
>strongly opposed the receipt of payment for Torah study.  However, both
>as a matter of halakhah and a matter of history, Rambam's view was not
>followed.

There is an assumption that somehow history proves the truth. That 
G-D would not let Judaism pursue a wrong path. Yet this seems in my 
view to be very self serving. The rabbis whose parnasah is entirely 
tied to Torah give the heter for taking money to teach Torah.

This professional rabbinate has usurped the Torah mandated 
relationship between parent and child. And in the spirit of publish 
or perish has focused us on the trivial to the detriment of the 
spiritual.

On a related topic some time ago Rabbi Bechhofer shared with us the 
success of his wife with the Hanna Sacks High School. One of her 
successes was the establishment of a psychology department. The 
teacher of psychology doubles as the college guidance resource. A 
recent lecture given by this person says it all about Hanna Sacks and 
college studies. The message was do not go to college. I understand 
that this person also is the teacher of psychology. In that class the 
text books have been physically mutilated to remove any reference to 
sex.

    Dick Fiedler    dfiedler@ibm.net
    Skokie Il   (847) 329-9065 Fax (847) 463-0582       /\
    Efrat Israel  (02) 9932706  Fax (02) 9932707    \--/--\--/
        .. __o    __o    __o    __o    __o    __o    \/    \/
       .. -\<,   -\<,   -\<,   -\<,   -\<,   -\<,    /\    /\
      ..(_)/(_)(_)/(_)(_)/(_)(_)/(_)(_)/(_)(_)/(_)  /--\--/--\
                                                        \/ 
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<excerpt>Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 17:50:00 -0400

From: "Clark, Eli" <<clarke@HUGHESHUBBARD.COM>

Subject: Payment for Learning Torah


Saul Davis quotes Judge Engelard to the effect that most Rishonim

opposed the institution of kollel.  As most people are aware, Rambam

strongly opposed the receipt of payment for Torah study.  However,
both

as a matter of halakhah and a matter of history, Rambam's view was not

followed. 

</excerpt>

There is an assumption that somehow history proves the truth. That G-D
would not let Judaism pursue a wrong path. Yet this seems in my view to
be very self serving. The rabbis whose parnasah is entirely tied to
Torah give the heter for taking money to teach Torah.


This professional rabbinate has usurped the Torah mandated relationship
between parent and child. And in the spirit of publish or perish has
focused us on the trivial to the detriment of the spiritual.


On a related topic some time ago Rabbi Bechhofer shared with us the
success of his wife with the Hanna Sacks High School. One of her
successes was the establishment of a psychology department. The teacher
of psychology doubles as the college guidance resource. A recent
lecture given by this person says it all about Hanna Sacks and college
studies. The message was <underline>do not go to college</underline>. I
understand that this person also is the teacher of psychology. In that
class the text books have been physically mutilated to remove any
reference to sex. 

    Dick Fiedler    dfiedler@ibm.net

    Skokie Il   (847) 329-9065 Fax (847) 463-0582       /\

    Efrat Israel  (02) 9932706  Fax (02) 9932707    \--/--\--/

        .. __o    __o    __o    __o    __o    __o    \/    \/ 

       .. -\<<,   -\<<,   -\<<,   -\<<,   -\<<,   -\<<,    /\    /\   

      ..(_)/(_)(_)/(_)(_)/(_)(_)/(_)(_)/(_)(_)/(_)  /--\--/--\ 

                                                        \/ 

--============_-1286993988==_ma============--


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Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 14:18:12 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Shoshanah M. & Yosef G. Bechhofer" <sbechhof@casbah.acns.nwu.edu>
Subject:
Corrected Mareh Makom Request


On the basis of a conversation I had today, it was brought to my attention
that the problem is the other way, i.e., that Pesach will come out too
late - in other words, after the end of the first month of Spring. If that
is correct, it seems that the year 2016 is the first problematic one, for
then Pesach comes out April 23rd. Would appreciate verificaation,
rebuttal, any mareh mekomos, for that and the RSG/BM controversy etc.!
tHanks!

YGB

Yosef Gavriel Bechhofer
Cong. Bais Tefila, 3555 W. Peterson Ave., Chicago, IL, 60659
ygb@aishdas.org, http://www.aishdas.org/baistefila


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Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 10:08:56 -0400
From: richard_wolpoe@ibi.com
Subject:
Mis-Communications


Dear List,
     Apparently at leat one member took offense to some slight to Sefardim based
upon my post.  Let me say that no slight was intended. And I apologize for any 
mis-understanding. The observatoin about histroy bearing out htesuccess of 
Ashkenzi Yeshivos is of course (like most of history) debatable.  I will mention
the subtle quotes I put around "gedolim"  My point was that at least 
perception-wise, the "gedolim" were primarily Ashkenaz, with Lita as the "epi- 
center"
   

     Ernest van den Haag in teh Jewish Mystique postuatles that the support 
gvien by communtiies to large rabbinical families in contradictinction to 
Catholics whose clergy reamiend celibate was a major factor in the Jews 
producing intellegensia.  And I udnerstandt that many small l communiteis 
throughout Esatern Europe imported Litvihser yshiva student to be their 
Rabbonim.  At least perception-wise, the yeshivo students from Lita were 
considered more learned... 


     R. Zvi Weiss's points are valid, but a quibble. The point is the attitude 
and the wilingness to PAY to support Torah Scholars. The insitution of "kollel" 
is merely a manifestation of this philosophy.

     On another topic, Micha percieved a challenge.  No challenge was intended. 
I was actually adrressing a point of many months ago that RYGB made re: Rabbeinu
Tam's shito legabie zmanim as NOT being binding.  Well here goes my rationale as
to how it COULD indeed have been binding.

1)  As metnioned before (again and again) Ashkenazim had a Mesorah and Minhog 
independent of TB
2)  Rashi and Tosfos attempted to reconcile TB with the Ashkenic derech.
3) Rabbeinu Tam probably was not so much giving Peshat in the Gemoro, but more 
in teh vein of "kvetching" the Gemoro to follow what they were doing.
4) Therefore, regardless of the supposed error in his ways - it is STILL 
binding.  IOW, the Gor and others cannot assume that because the peshat of the 
TB is gainst RT, that we etherfore are allowed to change a Minhog

Rabbi Dr. Kanarfogel said that loophole the Gro used was NOT that the TB 
"proved" RT wrong.  Rather, that the minhog in Ashkenaz was NEVER universally 
nispashet as according to RT.  The fact that he "came-on" to this loophole
supports my theory that without it, RT would have been "right".  IOW ilu all of 
Ahskenaz followed RT, the obejctions form the TB would not have been enough to 
changed the Minhog. 

Rich Wolpoe


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Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 10:41:02 -0400
From: richard_wolpoe@ibi.com
Subject:
Overturning Minhogim


Micha: >As to the "ein ladovor sof", of course there's a clear end. You can't 
prove everything  you set out to. So yes, any provably wrong minhag may fall. 
But do you really believe our process of forming minhagim is so flawed that this
will lead to overturning more than a small minority of them?<<

I think it sets a dangerous precedent.  I will take this off-line, in order not 
to imflame anyone. 

Like others, I do not object to debating the academic validity of minhogim. at 
least lich'ora, YT Sheini of Shavuos makes no sense.  Ok Lo Plug.  Theorical 
challenges are NOT dangerous until they change behavior.

I think this gave the Chazon Ish a comfort level... ie. that a halocho a is 
based upon a faulty text, or a mis-reading  still has a certain validity in that
it became the practical minhog

Hypothetical question:  If we could PROVE based upon uncovered texts that RT was
correct (and Rashi/Rambam incorrect) legabei Tefillin, would we change or not?

Rich Wolpoe


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Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 10:10:54 -0400
From: "Ari Z. Zivotofsky" <azz@lsr.nei.nih.gov>
Subject:
Re: Urgent Request for "Luach" Marei Mekomos! (fwd)


If you are interested in the migration of the starting date of tal umattar,
let me know
I have a few some good articles on that too.


Shoshanah M. & Yosef G. Bechhofer wrote:

> Here is some intial response from an off-list source - it is very lucid
> (as always), but slightly short on marei mekomos. The request still
> stands!
>
> YGB
>
> Yosef Gavriel Bechhofer
> Cong. Bais Tefila, 3555 W. Peterson Ave., Chicago, IL, 60659
> ygb@aishdas.org, http://www.aishdas.org/baistefila
>
> _________________________________________________________________
>
>                 INSIGHTS INTO THE DAILY DAF
>
>         brought to you by Kollel Iyun Hadaf of Yerushalayim
>             Rosh Kollel: Rabbi Mordecai Kornfeld
>                  daf@shemayisrael.co.il
> _________________________________________________________________
>
> ERUVIN 56 - was generously dedicated by an anonymous donor in Los Angeles.
>
> ERUVIN 60 - Dedicated by Gerald (Gedalia) Ziering of New Rochelle in honor
> of his son, David Ephraim, who studied this year in Yeshivat Sha'arei
> Yerushalayim of Yerushalayim.
>
> The Kollel needs your help in order to continue its work. Pledge a Daf
> dedication now! DAF: $250; WEEK: $1,250; MONTH: $5,000. For more
> information write to: daf@shemayisrael.co.il
>
> Eruvin 56
>
> 1) SUMMARY: THE LENGTH OF THE YEAR The Gemara quotes Shmuel who makes an
> important statement about the seasons of the year. Shmuel says that the
> four Tekufos of the year are exactly 91 days and 7 1/2 hours long, which
> means that the year is 365 days and 6 hours long (91 days and 7 1/2 hours
> X 4). Consequently, the time of day that each Tekufah occurs will be 7 1/2
> hours later in the day than the previous one.  How accurate is Shmuel's
> measurement according to present-day calculations?
>
> Julius Caesar, in the year 3714 (46 B.C.E.) arranged a *solar* calendar,
> the first calendar based on the earth's relationship with the position of
> the sun, which is very similar to the one used by the modern world today.
> At that time, his astronomers advised him that the solar year is exactly
> 365 1/4 days (365 days and 6 hours), the same as Shmuel's calculation.
> However, in truth this figure is inaccurate; it is a bit too long. The
> true solar year is 365 days, 5 hours, 48 minutes, and 46 seconds. Shmuel's
> calculation was off by some 11 minutes per year, which means that with the
> passage of time, the actual solar year lags behind Shmuel's year. The
> equinoxes and solstices slowly migrate through the calendar with the
> passage of time; every 128 years the equinoxes and solstices arrive one
> day too early.
>
> At a later time, the astronomers noted that they were slightly off and
> corrected the length of the year to 365 days 5 hours, 55 minutes, and 25
> seconds, cutting out about half of the 11 minute discrepancy between
> Shmuel's year and the actual year. Rav Ada, a third century Amora,
> recalculated the Jewish lunisolar calendar based on this calculation and
> organized it into the present 19-year cycle, which has as leap years the
> 3rd, 6th, 8th, 11th, 14th, 17th, and 19th year of the 19-year cycle. This
> was done in order that the lunar year, divided up among those 19 solar
> years, will average out to the length of the solar year mentioned, and
> thus every 19 years the lunar and solar years will meet.
>
> (NOTE: In 1582 C.E., the non-Jews, not wanting the summer months to fall
> during winter and the winter months to fall during summer, modified the
> Julian calendar and adopted a new version called the Gregorian calendar.
> The first change they made to the calendar was to cut out the 11 days that
> were mistakenly added to the year due to the miscalculation of the Julian
> astronomers. (The day after September 3 that year was not September 4, but
> September 15.) They also adjusted the calendar to by subtracting one leap
> year every 400 years. This means that they worked with a year of 365 days,
> 5 hours, 49 minutes and 12 seconds -- which is still off by approx. 26
> seconds, but close enough for most practical purposes. At the time, the we
> instituted *no* parallel changes to the Jewish lunisolar calendar.)
>
> In the final analysis, we follow Rav Ada's calculation in our lunisolar
> calendar, breaking it into a 19-year cycle. However, for the Halachos
> which depend on the Tekufos, such as when to say the prayer of "v'Sen Tal
> u'Matar" in Galus and when we recite Birchas ha'Chamah, we rely on
> Shmuel's calculation. ("V'Sen Tal u'Matar" in Galus is added in Shemoneh
> Esreh starting 60 days after the autumnal equinox, and Birkas ha'Chamah is
> said on the day of the vernal equinox every 28 years, as calculated
> through Shmuel's calculation. This is why "v'Sen Tal u'Matar" is said in
> Galus beginning from the 5th or 4th of December, depending on whether the
> following year is a leap year. This date will not change after the year
> 2000, since that year is not affected by the Gregorian calendar.)
>
> Dr. Norman Bloom of Miami, Florida, points out that since we are working
> with two different solar calendars, the time when Jews in Galus start
> saying v'Sen Tal u'Matar will migrate towards the summer even faster than
> the spring festivals will migrate towards the summer. This means that
> eventually, the time to start saying "v'Sen Tal u'Matar" will catch up to
> Pesach, and the first day to say "v'Sen Tal u'Matar" coincide with day on
> which we stop saying it! Fortunately, we will not encounter this problem
> for another approx. 42,000 years, which will be long after the Ge'ulah
> will have come and all of the Jews will be living in Eretz Yisrael.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Mordecai Kornfeld        |   kornfeld@dafyomi.co.il  |Tel: (02)6522633
> P.O.B. 43087             | kornfeld@netvision.net.il |Fax:9722-6522633
> Har Nof, Jerusalem,ISRAEL|kornfeld@shemayisrael.co.il|US:(718)520-0210


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Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 11:17:05 -0400
From: "Ari Z. Zivotofsky" <azz@lsr.nei.nih.gov>
Subject:
hebrew letters


Does anyone know what the halacha would be if a sofer wrote a "final"
letter in the middle
of a word or alternatively a regular letter at the end of  a word?
After much searching yesterday I was unable to find any sources on this.

As a related matter, the gemara mentions that the final letters were
introduced by the tzofim.
But there is no explanation why specifically those few letters have two
forms and the others don't.
Does anyone know a historic, halachik, or hashkafic explanation?

Ari Zivotofsky


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Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 11:53:00 -0400
From: "Clark, Eli" <clarke@HUGHESHUBBARD.COM>
Subject:
Int'l Date Line and Sefirat ha-Omer


Some months ago, Chana Luntz, our malkah-to-be, posed some fascinating
questions relating to travel across the international date line (IDL).
This past Shabbat, a friend showed a discussion of a perplexing
situation involving Sefirat ha-Omer and crossing the IDL.  In his
Mo'adei Yisrael, R. Shelomo Goren writes that he once flew eastward from
Japan during Sefirah, thereby gaining a day.  Specifically, he davened
ma'ariv and counted 30 on a Wednesday night in Japan.  He then boarded a
plane and flew to Los Angeles, where he arrived on Wednesday afternoon.
That evening, the locals were counting 30.

What to do?  He could not skip a day, as he would then lose the
requirement of temimot.  But he also could not count the same day twice,
could he?  He decided that, mi-safek, he would count twice every night,
once following the count of the East and once the count of the West.

However, a more serious problem loomed: when to celebrate Shavu'ot.  By
that time, he was back in Israel.  But Shavu'ot does not have a fixed
calendar date; it is celebrated on the 50th night.  According to which
count was he bound?  Mi-safek, he celebrated two days of Shavu'ot.  But
these did not coincide with the two days of Shavu'ot celebrated in Galut
in the West; rather, his "first" day was only erev Shavu'ot everywhere
else (except in the East).  Moreover, he argued that, had he stayed in
the US for Shavu'ot, he would have had to keep three days!

Comments?

Eli Clark 


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Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 12:16:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: micha@aishdas.org (Micha Berger)
Subject:
International Date Line and Shavuos


The Lubavitcher Rebbe zt"l held that the first day of Shavuos must be day 50
of the count, and that counting is subjective days, not calendar days. BUT,
s'feika diyoma is "minhag avoseihem", which is to observe a particular date on
the calendar.

So, a person who travelled from Japan to LA would end up observing the fifth
and seventh of Sivan -- non-consecutive days. And, someone travelling in the
reverse direction would observe a single day for both Shavuos and s'feika
diyoma (as oxymoronic as that sounds).

-mi

-- 
Micha Berger (973) 916-0287          MMG"H for 26-Apr-99: Levi, Emor
micha@aishdas.org                                         A"H O"Ch 315:9-15
http://www.aishdas.org                                    Eruvin 71a
For a mitzvah is a lamp, and the Torah its light.         Kuzari I 109-112


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Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 09:34:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: Harry Weiss <hjweiss@netcom.com>
Subject:
Riddles


> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 12:35:31 +0300 (IDT)
> From: Eli Turkel <turkel@math.tau.ac.il>
> Subject: riddles

A quick, not thought out reply, to a few

> 
> 1. When can a person be called to the Torah for 3 successive aliyot on the
> same day?

A kohen for Shabbos morning maftir  when there is no Levy for Mincha.

> 
> 2. Someday, if they colonize the moon and there is a Jewish community,
> what blessing will they be unable to recite?

Kiddush Levana

> 
> 3. How can you have a mixture which is dairy, and when meat accidentally
> falls in, the mixture becomes parve (neither meat nor dairy)?
> 
> 4. What is the explanation of the following? "Shmini B'Shmini Shmini Shmini."
> 
> 5. One morning there were three people attending the same minyan. Each
> finished the silent amidah at the same time, yet, during
> the repetition of the amidah, one responded "amen" 26 times, the second
> only 22 times and the third only three times. Can you
> explain this? (By the way, none of these people fell asleep or failed to
> respond amen as required.)
> 

A  regular davener, a Kohen duchaning, and the shaliach tzibur.


> 6. What is the shortest word in the Torah?
> 
> 7. The year 2000 is generally thought to have no particular significance to
> Jews, yet, the year 2000 is special in one respect:
> there is a particular commemoration that will not be observed in that
> calendar year. What day is it?
> 
> 8. On what date in the Jewish calendar do we sometimes recite Hallel
> while, in other years, on the same date, we recite Tachanun?


> 9. Triplets and their cousin are born within two hours of each other. Yet
> their circumcisions are on four consecutive days. How
> can this occur? (No consideration need be given to the international date
> line or any possible health related issues.)

One sibling borne the week before erev Yom tov in chul, one borne Bein 
Hashmashot in chul, the cousin borne ben hashmashot in Israel, and the 
final sibling borne a week before the first day Yom tov in chul.

> 
> 10. Twins are born on the same day, Shabbat, yet their circumcisions are
> NOT on the same day. (The health of neither baby is an issue.)

One during vaday day and one ben hashmashot.  or one a C section.

> 
> 11. Generally because Jerusalem is in an earlier time zone, rituals are
> performed earlier there than in New York. What celebration occurs earlier
> in New York than in Jerusalem.

Purim
> 
> 12. What single verse (i.e. the same verse, not different verses with the
> same words) is read publicly from the Torah most often?
> 
> 13. We read the next regular Shabbat weekly Torah reading at Shabbat
> mincha. What weekly parashah is read at Shabbat mincha in Israel but
> NEVER in the diaspora?
> 


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Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 12:19:00 -0400
From: "Clark, Eli" <clarke@HUGHESHUBBARD.COM>
Subject:
Yotze kol ha-de'ot


R. Micha writes:

>I'm very worried about the approach of being chosheish for multiple dei'os.

>First, we know the gemara's opinion of people who hold by the chumros of both
>batei Hillel viShammai.

>Second, it's not normal halachic process. Aside from the compromize most
>Ashkenazim use for not hanging a mezuzah "like a nail" we usually pick an
>opinion and stick with it.

Um, I am not in the habit of trying to define what is "normal."  If you
mean, it almost never happens, that is not so clear.  There are
literally scores of examples of being yotze kol ha-de'ot that have
become normative practice.  The best-known examples occur in tefillah,
such as modim de-rabbanan, as the gemara says, "hilkakh nemerinhu
le-tarvayhu."  Also the haggadah's approach to "mathil be-genit
u-mesayem be-shvah."  But there are others.  The minhag of reciting "Yom
ha-Shishi" before kiddush was motivated by the desire to spell out YHVH,
but this raised the problem of reciting a partial pasuk; the compromise
was to recite the beginning of the pasuk quietly, to be yotze both
shitot.   The practice of wrapping the talit around one's head during
the berakhah, but not during the rest of tefillah, is an attempt to be
yotze two shitot, per the Ari.  In the realm of zemanei Shabbat, we are
generally mahmir for different de'ot in terms of kenissat Shabbat and
yetzi'at Shabbat.  Regarding the question of the second berakhah for
tefillin shel rosh, we recite it, but add barukh shem, just in case.
Anyone familiar with the laws of erusin and nisu'in knows that we try to
be yotze different shitot regarding yihud and other issues.  And so on.
Daniel Sperber enumerates many such examples in several volumes of his
Minhagei Yisrael.

The Briskers, in particular, have turned being yotze kol ha-de'ot into a
cornerstone of their halakhic practice.  Of course, many will argue that
they are not prime examples of what is "nomal" . . .

Kol tuv,

Eli Clark 


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Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 13:12:37 -0400
From: "Ari Z. Zivotofsky" <azz@lsr.nei.nih.gov>
Subject:
(no subject)


> R. Micha writes:
>
> >Second, it's not normal halachic process. Aside from the compromize most
> >Ashkenazim use for not hanging a mezuzah "like a nail" we usually pick an
> >opinion and stick with it.

Sperber has shown that the diagonal mezuzah is not a compromise between vertical
and horizontal,
but was an independent geonic shita that was adopted.


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Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 13:24:00 -0400
From: "Clark, Eli" <clarke@HUGHESHUBBARD.COM>
Subject:
Producing Gedolim -- Hirschian and otherwise


Zvi Weiss writes:

>R. EE Dessler ZT"L
>wrote in a letter (published in the Hebrew 3rd volume of Michtav...) where
>he says that the "purpose" of Yeshivot is to "produce Gedolim" (and that
>is how he distinguished this from the "Frankfort Shita" -- which R.
>Dessler calimes did NOT "produce" so many Gedolim -- a claim that R.
>Schwab ZT"L respectfully but forcefully refuted...).  It is this concept
>of "producing Gedolim" that seems to be behind the "learning all day for
>everyone"...

Bi-mhilat kevod R. Schwab, who was obviously a noge'a ba-davar,
Frankfurt did not produce a substantial number of Gedolim.  Note that in
Frankfurt R. Hirsch founded a school that did not include a yeshivah
gedolah.  His school was clearly oriented toward producing frum
"baalebatim."  Note too that KAJ had to look beyond its membership to
find a successor to R. Schwab!

A similar argument could be made about YU, which has ordained many
rabbis, but produced few gedolim.  Of course, it is a misnomer to speak
of an institution "producing" Gedolim.  I firmly believe that a Gadol is
not manufactured.  Most of the Gedolim of the last century were not, I
think, produced by the institutions at which they learned.  Moreover,
some of the same institutions, such as Volozhin, which produced gedolim,
also produced leading maskilim.

That having been said, it is obvious that a potential Gadol needs to
have time to become a Gadol.  In the last century, the most promising
students were often married off very young (i.e. age 12-14) and
supported by their father-in-law, not by a community.  Moreover, many
did not learn in a kollel, but went into "galus," leaving wife and
children behind and learning in seclusion, often alone, sometimes with a
single hevruta.

In the early part of this century, promising students from small
communities were sent to a big yeshivah to learn, often supported by the
community that sent them.  Most married late, waiting until around age
30.

The point is that, historically, the prevalence of kollelim which exists
today is simply unprecedented.  The change is partly a reflection of the
increased wealth of the Orthodox community generally.  Talmud Torah has
increased both quantitatively and qualitatively.  And, outside of Eretz
Yisrael, the Frankfurt model of the learned baal ha-bayit has spread
widely within the frum community, to the right and to the left.  More
importantly, the yeshivah-kollel system can be credited with producing a
huge number of talmidei hakhamim of varying caliber.  Whether the system
will succeed in producing "Gedolim" has yet to be determined.  Certainly
we are still waiting for the next Hazon Ish to appear.

Kol tuv,

Eli Clark


Go to top.

Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 13:36:40 -0400
From: "Noah Witty" <nwitty@ix.netcom.com>
Subject:
Some Riddle answers (some I know but choose not to!)


4. What is the explanation of the following? "Shmini B'Shmini Shmini
Shmini."

This expression which I have never heard is probably a very a-grammatical
way of expressing the following:
When [Parshas] Shemini falls on Shemini (the 8th day of Pesach in diaspora),
i.e. when the first and last days of Pesach fall on Shabbos and Parshas
Shemini would have been read--as it in fact is in Israel-- on the second
shabbos, the first aliyah of parshas shemini is read 8 times.

5. One morning there were three people attending the same minyan. Each
finished the silent amidah at the same time, yet, during
the repetition of the amidah, one responded "amen" 26 times, the second
only 22 times and the third only three times. Can you
explain this? (By the way, none of these people fell asleep or failed to
respond amen as required.)

6. What is the shortest word in the Torah?

The large Heh in Ha-Azinu.

7. The year 2000 is generally thought to have no particular significance to
Jews, yet, the year 2000 is special in one respect:
there is a particular commemoration that will not be observed in that
calendar year. What day is it?

Cholent Day.

8. On what date in the Jewish calendar do we sometimes recite Hallel
while, in other years, on the same date, we recite Tachanun?

Cute: 3 Tevet.  And important, because a child can be born on the day 8 (or
7 or 6) of Chanukah and yet be bar mitzvah on day 7 (6 or first day Rosh
Chodesh)--and we don't want to miscalculate that! Same issue with
yahrtzeits.

9. Triplets and their cousin are born within two hours of each other. Yet
their circumcisions are on four consecutive days. How
can this occur? (No consideration need be given to the international date
line or any possible health related issues.)

The triplets are born on the Wednesday afternoon, evening and night, one
week before this past erev Pesach, in Israel; the cousin in Constantinople,
Athens, Budapest (or somewhere that is the same time as Israel). The triplet
born Wednesday will have a bris on Wednesday Erev Pesasch (and the rabbis
can stop learning for the Siyum); the third triplet, born Wednesday night,
will have had his bris on the first day of pesach; the second boy born at
twilight will have bris in Israel on Friday, 1st day of Chol HaMoed, and the
cousin. born also at twilight will have his bris postponed to Sunday due to
Yom-Tov Sheni and Shabbos.

Alternative answer: yom-tov sheni follows shabbos. The previous week, mom
gives bith too #1 on Friday, #2 on Friday night, so the brisos are on the
next Friday and Shabbos respectively, and the third is born c-section and
therefore delayed to Sunday (chol in Israel).  The cousin is born bain
hashmoshos of Friday evening in chu"l and therefore postponed to Monday.

Nice question. Can you do *five* days?

10. Twins are born on the same day, Shabbat, yet their circumcisions are
NOT on the same day. (The health of neither baby is an issue.)

Because one of them crossed then int'l date line (presumably with an adult).

11. Generally because Jerusalem is in an earlier time zone, rituals are
performed earlier there than in New York. What celebration occurs earlier
in New York than in Jerusalem.

Cholent Day?

13. We read the next regular Shabbat weekly Torah reading at Shabbat
mincha. What weekly parashah is read at Shabbat mincha in Israel but
NEVER in the diaspora?

Braishis.


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