Avodah Mailing List

Volume 43: Number 17

Sat, 15 Mar 2025

• 1. Re: torah death penalties (horrific) (Brent Kaufman)
• 2. Any Cultures Other that J that proscribes Varying Death Penalties for Different Violations? (Rabbi Meir G. Rabi)
• 3. Re: Any Cultures Other that J that proscribes Varying Death Penalties for Different Violations? (allan.en...@mail.gmail.com)
• 4. standard measures? (Joel Rich)
• 5. did Achashverosh have multiple wives? (mco...@touchlogic.com)

>>at simple reading, the torah death techniques seem very severe (barbaric,
horrific), overly painful, etc

I am particularly troubled by the torture that is involved in Misa
d'Rabbanon (Rabbinic Capital Punishment) in which a person is overfed
barley and then locked in a small tight space in which they are doubled
over and made to overdrink water until they burst. That is by any name
torture. I was told that the Rabbanim were looking for a manner in which
the death would come as a grama so that they would be less guilty; but that
seems ridiculous to cause a person maximum pain so that you can take a
hands off approach. It bothers me so much over the years that whenever I
sing "darcheha darchei no'am, v'kol nesivoseha shalom." I think to myself:
except for this one.

>>i know its a gezeras hakasuv,

Granted the basic manners of death are gezeros hakasuv, i.e. sereifa has to
be some manner of burning to death, but I was under the impression that the
rabbanim were allowed to decide the way burning was carried out, such as
having molten lead poured down the throat so as to be the least painful.

Also, as for being drunk, it seems very unlikely and just word service to
the cause. The Gemara says that the guilty should be given a cup of wine
beforehand. A cup of wine will do nothing to lessen the pain. A person
would be fully aware of their pain, whether being thrown off a low ledge
(which would do nothing but maybe break the legs causing more pain) or
burning ones insides.

Chaimbaruch Kaufman
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Best,

Meir G. Rabi

0423 207 837
+61 423 207 837
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On Tue, 11 Mar 2025 at 04:08, Rabbi Meir G. Rabi via Avodah <avo...@lists.aishdas.org> wrote:
...

I don't know about ancient cultures, but in medieval Europe crimes such a
treason would result in hanging, drawing and quartering (unless you were of
noble birth, in which case you might qualify for a merciful beheading).

ADE

Is anyone aware of any surveys of when halacha looks to objective measures
(eg kzait) and when to subjective measures (eg maaleh lugmav)? When we look
at community ?standards? (eg most people buy seeds to eat) and when we look
to individual?s (eg this buyer usually buys to plant)?

Bsorot tovot
joel rich
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r moshe dovid valli (talmid chaver of the ramchal) writes as a dvar pashut
(5:2-3) that Achashverosh had multiple wives besides Esther (just that she
was the favorite of them)
 
i guess this is logical.
its unlikely that Achashverosh would limit himself to one wife. 
and jewish kings had multiple wives too
 
is this idea (Achashverosh multiple wives) well known?

..i always assumed Esther (as winner of the contest) was the only one.
 
is anyone aware of other sources on this issue?
 
 
 
 
[  ]( https://www.chabad.org/holidays/purim/article_cdo/aid/1344/jewish/Achashverosh-Ascends-the-Throne-of-Persia.htm
)
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