Avodah Mailing List

Volume 43: Number 16

Sun, 09 Mar 2025

• 1. orthodox theology (Joel Rich)
• 2. RESPECT (Joel Rich)
• 3. torah death penalties (horrific) (mco...@touchlogic.com)
• 4. Re: RESPECT (Micha Berger)
• 5. Re: torah death penalties (horrific) (Micha Berger)

In a recent discussion concerning whether a specific rabbi was within the
pale of orthodox theology, I wondered what percentage of the rank and file
think about theology and what they would define as beyond the pale (or
within it, for that matter).
Bsorot tovot
Joel Rich
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If one?s host culture deems a certain action (eg neck bow) as a sign of
respect, would a jew be required to do that action when their parent
entered the room?
Bsorot tovot
Joel Rich
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daf yomi - sanhedrin
 
at simple reading, the torah death techniques seem very severe (barbaric, horrific), overly painful, etc
 
except for hereg (sword)
 
i know its a gezeras hakasuv, and i know all the standard
disclaimers...very rare, maybe only once in 70 years, rare to find a case
with 2 aidim with hasraah..etc
 
neverless the question of the method (even though soft cloth used etc) remains
 
does anyone have any insights or references to explain this?
 
al pi sod ?
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On Wed, Mar 05, 2025 at 06:41:58AM +0200, Joel Rich via Avodah wrote:
> If one's host culture deems a certain action (eg neck bow) as a sign of
> respect, would a jew be required to do that action when their parent
> entered the room?

What does a kibud mean?

If we are concerned about the person feeling like they are mekhubadim,
then your question depends on how acculturated the parent is to the
host culture.

If we are also concerned about how others think of the person you're
honoring, then you are creating marketing impressions that will change
how people view your parent. In which case, misvara, I would say it's
definitely appropriate.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 In the days of our sages, man didn't sin unless
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   he was overcome with a spirit of foolishness.
Author: Widen Your Tent      Today, we don't do a mitzvah unless we receive
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF    a spirit of purity.      - Rav Yisrael Salanter

On Wed, Mar 05, 2025 at 11:43:59AM -0500, mcohen--- via Avodah wrote:
> at simple reading, the torah death techniques seem very severe
> (barbaric, horrific), overly painful, etc

> except for hereg (sword)

I think sereifah would also cause instant shock. Your imagination may
vary, and I don't want to think about it too hard.

They also had the sentenced person passed-out drunk.

> i know its a gezeras hakasuv, and i know all the standard
> disclaimers...very rare, maybe only once in 70 years, rare to find a
> case with 2 aidim with hasraah..etc

Beyond the surface level of the disclaimers...

What is the role of a penalty you almost never expect to mete out?

Announcing what the punishment would be if all the start aligned fosters
both yir'as ha'onesh -- fear of the punishment, and yir'as hacheit --
an awareness of the magnitude and significance of the sin in-and-of just
being the wrong thing to do.

So it's a pre-emptive deterrant. Something to scare people away from
sinning before anyone sins. After all, there won't be enough examples
of the punishment after the sin to scare people away that way. It's a
statement.

So, maybe a punishment that should remain largely hypothetical is more
effective when horrific. That statement is louder the harder it is to
imagine being put through it.

(Tangential side issue: The need for hasra'ah means you're basically only
dealing with people volunteering to die for the cause.)

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 I long to accomplish a great and noble task,
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   but it is my chief duty to accomplish small
Author: Widen Your Tent      tasks as if they were great and noble.
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF                            - Helen Keller


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