Avodah Mailing List

Volume 42: Number 32

Sun, 12 May 2024

• 1. inspect one?s property (Joel Rich)
• 2. (no subject) (Rabbi Meir G. Rabi)
• 3. Re: Kitniyot during Pesach (Micha Berger)
• 4. Re: (no subject) (Micha Berger)

The Chafetz Chaim in Seder Olam chapter 11 takes the Gmara in Chulin 105
concerning Shmuel and how often to inspect one?s property as a metaphor for
how often to do a cheshbon hanefesh (self- introspection). He foreshadows
Rabbi JB Soloveitchik?s loneliness in realizing that in the end, even
though you have a loving family, you are alone with HKBH. A lot of great
mussar concerning how we spend our time, especially with the outside
influences even from close family members. One point that really struck me
was when he said, ?and even if you do some good thing, did you really
intend it for HKBHs honor or maybe only to glorify yourself? This applies
even to torah or prayer.? I can?t help but think of all the blind spots we
have as individuals and communities and how often we may confuse personal
drivers with what HKBH wants of us. To me the best defense is to actually
listen to what others have to say (Paging bet hillel always stating bet
shamai first ? as R? M Rosensweig says ? that wasn?t about winning the Bing
Trophy but about hearing others and considering other viewpoints before
coming to a final conclusion)
Kach mkublani mbeit avi abba
Any thoughts?
bsorot tovot
joel rich
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Toby Katz responding to my post, re Kitniyot during Pesach,
wrote that corn and peanuts are both New World foods
They were unknown at the time the Kitniyos ban was promulgated

Furthermore they ought not be included just as potatoes are not banned on
Pesach.
even though potato flour can be cooked and baked like Chamets,
but as a New World food
and also because they became a staple, without which actual starvation
would have been a danger.

This may all be true
but was not the point of my post

My point is that
the Kitniyoy Ban NEVER applied
but to foods that were actually COOKED like porridge
If they were NOT COOKED
even if they may have a type that would sometimes be cooked
it was not included in the ban

So fresh peas, sugar snaps etc are not banned
UNLESS they are cooked, a Tavshil

The Shulchan Aruch HaRav does not even mention BAKING
In fact he deliberately chose to abandon BAKING which is mentioned in the
Levush.



Best,

Meir G. Rabi

0423 207 837
+61 423 207 837
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On Fri, May 10, 2024 at 12:19:16AM +1000, Rabbi Meir G. Rabi via Avodah wrote:
> My point is that
> the Kitniyoy Ban NEVER applied
> but to foods that were actually COOKED like porridge

Mustard?

In any case, corn meal IS cooked like porridge. It's called grits in the US,
mamliga in Yiddish.

Chodesh Tov!
Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

Oops, I forgot the main point:
> My point is that
> the Kitniyoy Ban NEVER applied
> but to foods that were actually COOKED like porridge
> If they were NOT COOKED
> even if they may have a type that would sometimes be cooked
> it was not included in the ban

Actually, we don't eat peas even in non-porridge form.

It seems that qithiyos includes plants that can be cooked like porridge,
wihether or not this particular food does.

And mustard? Qitniyos apparently also sometimes includes grain-like seeds.
But not quinoa? That's why I said "apparently also sometimes". I don't
get this corner of the minhag.

Peanuts are legumes -- literally qitniyos. And they do appear in
tavshilin, famously in Thai cuisine, if not porridges.

Then we have the Chayei Adam's famous comment that the only reason why
potatoes aren't included in the minhag is because it would be something
she'ein hatzibbur yakhol laamod bah. Also appears in tavshilin, although
not porridges -- unless mashed potatoes are close enough. In any case,
the CA focuses on the ease of making potato faux bread.

To further complicate the limits of the minhag... Is there a single "the
minhag"? Or did different communities have slightly different minhagim?
For example, mei qitniyos were used by some Eastern European communities
(and I think Yekkes too) but not by others. Shemen qitniyos was used by
yet more. Although in the US, the nays on shemen qitniyos won. There was
a time when the usual Pesachdik oil was peanut. Not any more.

Chodesh Tov!
Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 Today is the 16th day, which is
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   2 weeks and 2 days in/toward the omer.
Author: Widen Your Tent      Gevurah sheb'Tifferes: What type of discipline
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF                           does harmony promote?


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