Avodah Mailing List

Volume 42: Number 24

Fri, 12 Apr 2024

• 1. Re: observing the mitzvot is good for digestion? (Akiva Miller)
• 2. Re: source for custom to say/sing extra pesukim after shir hamaalos before benching (Arie Folger)
• 3. psak/feelings (Joel Rich)
• 4. Re: psak/feelings (Micha Berger)

.
Back on Feb 14 (I'm a bit behind), R' Joel Rich wrote:

> From Maaseh Harav:
> In the essay we are discussing, the Rav expresses his disgust
> at the prevalent preaching to the effect that "observing the
> mitzvot is good for digestion, sweet sleep, family tranquility
> and social status." He had never attempted to interpret the
> Torah via "the categories of mental health, peace of mind and
> the like, despite the popularity of this approach amongst Jewish
> thinkers, Orthodox and non-Orthodox." He had no enthusiasm for
> those who would "bedeck the Torah with modern-Bohemian crown and
> to demonstrate to those at ease in the suburbs of Boston, New
> York and Los Angeles, that it is worthy of entering their ornate
> living rooms. He follows this paragraph with blunt statement that
> "religious action is primarily an experience of suffering"
>
> Thoughts?

I have no idea what is meant by "religious action is primarily an
experience of suffering", and therefore I cannot and will not comment on
it, other than to say that my confusion stems from the many religious
actions which clearly involve simcha, and *not* suffering.

Regarding the beginning:   I avoid commenting that "observing the mitzvot
is good for digestion, sweet sleep, family tranquility and social status"
(and similar observations) because in so many cases, when one generation
makes such comments, they are debunked by another generation. [Examples of
such health claims: Avoidance of pork lessens the incidence of trichinosis.
Bris Milah and Hilchos Nida lessen the incidence of certain cancers. Maybe
they do, but will the next generation think so?] These claims, therefore,
in my opinion, end up detracting from the eternal values of the Torah. I
concede that in some cases, such claims do have the short-term benefit of
attracting certain people to Torah. But I fear that in the long-term, they
do more harm than good.

Akiva Miller
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R'MCohen asked:
> what is the source for the custom to say/sing extra pesukim,
> [Tehillas haShem... --AF] after shir hamaalos before benching?

I recall that it is actually older than the recitation of Shir haMaalos /
Al Naharos Bovel and was introduced by the author of Modeh Ani, Rabbi Moshe
Ben Machir.

-- 
Mit freundlichen Gren,
Yours sincerely,
Arie Folger
Visit my blog at http://rabbifolger.net/
<http://rabbifolger.net/2016/01/28/wir-missionieren-nicht-aber-warum-nicht/>

Interesting. I recently heard R Asher Weiss say a poseik shouldn?t have any
?feeling? about the answer to a question but rather look at sources and see
where they take him. This seems different from R YBS in
community-covenant-commitment ?my inquiry consisted only in translating a
vague intuitive feeling into fixed terms of halachic discursive thinking?.
Thoughts?
Bsorot Tovot
Joel Rich
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On Wed, Apr 10, 2024 at 05:53:19AM +0300, Joel Rich via Avodah wrote:
> Interesting. I recently heard R Asher Weiss say a poseik shouldn't have any
> "feeling" about the answer to a question but rather look at sources and see
> where they take him. This seems different from R YBS in
> community-covenant-commitment "my inquiry consisted only in translating a
> vague intuitive feeling into fixed terms of halachic discursive thinking".

See what I wrote on Mar 8 in reply to your post on "klalei psak"
http://lists.aishdas.org/pipermail/avodah-aishdas.org/2024q1/047630.html

> The Chavatzeles haSharon quotes a chain of acharonim who hold that a
> poseiq generally knows where the pesaq is going to be, and then reasons
> his way to it. More recently, the Minchas Yitzcha says similarly.

> RAW says he never understood it. Rather, the poseiq should ignore that
> feeling and try to find Amito shel Torah without bias.

> As I recently commented on the AI discussion, I was under the impression
> that the process of pesaq not only includes ideas you can articulate, but
> also attitudes and tendencies that can't be put into words. As I said, I
> think this is why Chazal requires shimush rabbanim as a pre-requisite for
> hora'ah. Because there are things you can only learn by osmosis.

> And those go into that immediate feeling of where the pesaq ought to be.

> Yes, you have to be honest enough when the logic of the sefarim forces
> the poseiq to conclude your feeling comes from somewhere else, that it
> just doesn't work. But I thought a major part of being a TC is becoming
> the kind of person who has the right hunches.


Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 The meaning of life is to find your gift.
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   The purpose of life
Author: Widen Your Tent      is to give it away.
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF                   - Pablo Picasso


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