Avodah Mailing List

Volume 41: Number 18

Thu, 09 Mar 2023

• 1. Shushan Purim (Prof. L. Levine)
• 2. bracha rishona (Joel Rich)
• 3. Re: bracha rishona (Micha Berger)

From today's OU Kosher Halacha Yomi


QUESTION: Purim is celebrated on the 15th of Adar (Shushan Purim) in cities
that were walled in the time of Yehoshua. If the status of the city is
uncertain, the Megillah is read on both the 14th and 15th of Adar, at night
and during the day, but a bracha is recited only on the 14th (Shulchan
Aruch OC 688:4<https://www.sefaria.org/Shulchan_Arukh,_Orach_Chayim.688.4?lang=he-en&;utm_source=outorah.org&utm_medium=sefaria_linker>).
The Mishnah Berurah (ibid.:10) says that both days should be filled with
joy and matanos l?evyonim should be given. Does it follow then, that in
such cases, al hanisim is recited in Shemoneh Esrei and Birchas Hamozon on
both days?


ANSWER: The Rama (OC 693:2<https://www.sefaria.org/Shulchan_Arukh,_Orach_Chayim.693.2?lang=he-en&;utm_source=outorah.org&utm_medium=sefaria_linker>)
writes that al hanisim is recited in a regular city only on the 14th of
Adar. The Taz (OC 693:3<https://www.sefaria.org/Shulchan_Arukh,_Orach_Chayim.693.3?lang=he-en&;utm_source=outorah.org&utm_medium=sefaria_linker>)
comments that it is not proper to recite al hanisim on the 15th of Adar, as
this would constitute an interruption in the Shemoneh Esrei. However, if
one did accidentally recite al hanisim on Shushan Purim, bidieved (after
the fact), it would not be necessary to repeat the Shemoneh Esrei. This is
because Shushan Purim was a time of miracles, and the al hanisim prayer is
still appropriate. Based on this, the Pri Megadim (OC 693:3<https://www.sefaria.org/Shulchan_Arukh,_Orach_Chayim.693.3?lang=he-en&;utm_source=outorah.org&utm_medium=sefaria_linker>)
ruled that al hanisim should be recited on both the 14th and 15th of Adar
in a c
 ity whose classification is uncertain. Perhaps it is the proper day, and even if it is not, it would not be an interruption.


Professor Yitzchok Levine

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If a society always eats dessert as part of a meal, do they make a bracha
rishona on the dessert before birchat hamazon?
kt
joel rich
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On Wed, Mar 08, 2023 at 05:52:04AM +0200, Joel Rich via Avodah wrote:
> If a society always eats dessert as part of a meal, do they make a bracha
> rishona on the dessert before birchat hamazon?

You've hit a trigger for me. Because I am still wondering about a more
fundamental version of the question:

If a society no longer eat the majority of their food by using flatbread
as "cutlery", why does HaMotzi cover all the foods in the meal that would
otherwise have gotten other berakhos?

The whole concept of meat being "liftan" is not how we eat today.

The reason why deserts are different is not because they are optional, but
because they were not typically eaten on breat. Same thing with that fruit
you had as appetizer. Parperes is only included if you actually do force
its icludion by eating it on bread. But liftan is included by default
based on norms

We altogether aren't qov'in se'udah the way the gemara assumes. So every
time questions like this one are raised on list, I need to back up the
conversation a step...

Tell me how do the rules work nowadays at all. When do we follow
the gemara's rulings, and when do we follow the sevara that led to
them. Because my understanding is that today's metzi'us doesn't get you
from that sevara to the whole idea of HaMotzi covering core of the meal.

And then I could participate in a search to see how deserts that are a
taken-for-granted part of the meal should be treated.


-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 "'When Adar enters, we increase our joy'
http://www.aishdas.org/asp    'Joy is nothing but Torah.'
Author: Widen Your Tent       'And whoever does more, he is praiseworthy.'"
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF                   - Rav Dovid Lifshitz zt"l


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