Avodah Mailing List

Volume 40: Number 44

Fri, 24 Jun 2022

• 1. Question About This Week's Sedra (Prof. L. Levine)
• 2. Re: Ameilus BeTorah (Rabbi Meir G. Rabi)
• 3. Re: Question About This Week's Sedra (Zev Sero)
• 4. Re: Ameilus BeTorah (Micha Berger)
• 5. Emerging Psak (Joel Rich)
• 6. Re: taking a stand? (Micha Berger)
• 7. Re: taking a stand? (David Riceman)
• 8. Re: Punishment (David Riceman)
• 9. 10th vs. 10th (Micha Berger)

In this week's Sedra, Shlach, (which happens to be my Bar Mitzvah parasha)
Moshe sends one representative of each Shevat to "scout" the land. However,
in the haftorah Yehoshua sends only two men.

Shlach is referred to as the parasha of miraglim, yet this word does not appear in this parasha at all.

For answers to these questions, please see

https://torahinmotion.org/discussions-and-blogs/shelach-lecha-right-people-wrong-mission
[https://torahinmotion.org/sites/default/files/styles/blog_image_full/public/grapes-690230_1920.jpg?itok=l_VqOQtW]<;https://torahinmotion.org/discussions-and-blogs/shelach-lecha-right-people-wrong-mission>
Shelach Lecha: Right People, Wrong Mission | Torah In Motion<https://torahinmotion.org/discussions-and-blogs/shelach-lecha-right-people-wrong-mission>
Having the right people for the wrong job can lead to tragic consequences.
Such was the fate of the meraglim. Twelve handpicked leaders, who
represented the best the Jewish people had to offer, were to serve as the
final link between Egyptian slavery and Israeli redemption. Yet something
went terribly wrong and this was not to be.
torahinmotion.org

YL

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R' Micha,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
pls see my responses below within your message

On Wed, Jun 22, 2022 at 6:53 AM Micha Berger <mi...@aishdas.org> wrote:

> On Fri, Jun 03, 2022 at 11:20:56AM +1000, Rabbi Meir G. Rabi wrote:
> > Even when Yidden fulfill all the commandments - if we are not Ameilim BeTorah
> HKBH will ....
> > It seems there must be a link between the Vilna Gaon's observation
> [opening of Even Sheleimah] that the purpose of the Torah is Tikkun
> HaMiddos and Ameilus BeTorah.
>
> I see tiqun hammidos, but nothing about ameilus in Even Sheleimah until paragrpah
> 39.
>
> The Gra opens by telling you "All of Avodas Hashem rests on Tiqun haMiddos"
>  and only mentions being oseiq baTorah as a way to put the yh"r is snooze
> mode.
>
> In other words... I would have said that to the Gra, the purpose of life and
> the Torah is Tiqon haMiddos, and ameilus is a means to that end.
>

I'm sorry if I gave the impression that the GRA actually says that.
Indeed it is for this reason that I wrote IT SEEMS there must be a link -
because even when Yidden fulfill the entire Torah, horrible things will
afflict us if we are not Ameilim BeTorah. So it seems reasonable to assume
that Ameilus BeTorah encompases the heartbeat of HKBH's purpose of
Creation, perfection of one's Middos.
What is the link?

Perhaps Ameilus BeTorah best cultivates and captures pursuit of truth at
all costs.
When one commits to seeking and grasping truth above all else, one is in a
position to begin being honest with oneself and THAT is the foundation of
beginning the journey towards perfecting one's Middos.

Of those who fast Mon and Thr, a tradition amongst the very righteous, some
keep it to themselves, they are great people, whilst others ensure that
their circle of friends and community gets the memo. Those others include
some who actually fast and some who do not.
My father AH would ask - of these two groups which is the worse?
One's first response is - those liars who are not fasting but merely
boasting that they do.
However, upon further reflection one realises that those who are not
fasting are at least not fooling themselves.

I think this is the Yesod of Mussar - get to know yourself, for real.
And the only way to get there is via Ameilus BeTorah.
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> In this week's Sedra, Shlach, (which happens to be my Bar Mitzvah parasha)
> Moshe sends one representative of each Shevat to "scout" the land. However,
> in the haftorah Yehoshua sends only two men.
>
> Shlach is referred to as the parasha of miraglim, yet this word does not
> appear in this parasha at all.
>

See Malbim, who answers all these questions.  But in Devarim it does say
"vayeraglu osah".
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On Fri, Jun 03, 2022 at 11:20:56AM +1000, Rabbi Meir G. Rabi wrote:
> Even when Yidden fulfill all the commandments - if we are not Ameilim
> BeTorah HKBH will ....
> 
> It seems there must be a link between the Vilna Gaon's observation [opening
> of Even Sheleimah] that the purpose of the Torah is Tikkun HaMiddos and
> Ameilus BeTorah.

I see tiqun hammidos, but nothing about ameilus in Even Sheleimah until
paragrpah 39.

The Gra opens by telling you "All of Avodas Hashem rests on Tiqun haMiddos"
and only mentions being oseiq baTorah as a way to put the yh"r is snooze
mode.

In other words... I would have said that to the Gra, the purpose of life
and the Torah is Tiqon haMiddos, and ameilus is a means to that end.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 It is a glorious thing to be indifferent to
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   suffering, but only to one's own suffering.
Author: Widen Your Tent                    -Robert Lynd, writer (1879-1949)
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF

A note to a maggid shiur: I also appreciate it what you said concerning
abortion and authorities who are stringent don?t get asked questions
anymore. I think this is a dynamic that bears further analysis. Similarly,
what are the factors that have turned from the stringent opinion to the
lenient opinion being the majority over a generation. Do we see something
similar about who is the parent in all the various fertility approaches?

Thoughts?
KT
Joel Rich
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On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 02:44:18PM -0400, David Riceman via Avodah wrote:
> Though, arguably, the author may be a disciple of Socrates, who thought
> that people do evil only through ignorance. She may just be rejecting
> the concepts of yetzer tov and yetzer ra.

The Rambam, in the Moreh 1:1-2 explains the effects of the sin of the
Eitz haDaas as introducing aesthetics and desire. That previous
to the cheit, Adam and Chava only had to distinguish between the truth
and falsehood.

And then the key to nevu'ah is da'as and a person's humanness and
consequently their HP is proportional to their yedi'ah (3:18). Da'as
is also the key feature in his Palace metaphor (3:51).

And in case you don't get the idea that he thinks everything depends
on knowledge... 3:54 closes with a ranking of 4 kinds of perfection
(in ascending order): financial, bodily, moral and intellectual. Yes,
intellectual perfection is loftier than moral, in the Rambam's opinion!

But it all makes sense... If you figure he believes that knowledge is what
leaves to making right decisions, then even if a person was subject to
taavos (being born after the eitz hadaas), the person with right ideas
would have mastered them. So that even thought the last pereq places
intellectual perfection above all, this is in the middle of a discussion
about how man's highest calling is chessed umisphat utzedaqah.

Going back to RDR's point... I think that the Rambam agrees that human
evil (as defined by the antonyms of chessed, mishpat and tzedaqah)
depends on ignorance. But not because he rejects yh"t vs. yh"r, but
because he feels the sufficient yedi'ah is what allows the yh"t to win.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 The goal isn't to live forever,
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   the goal is to create so mething that will.
Author: Widen Your Tent
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF

RMB:

> 
> Going back to RDR's point... I think that the Rambam agrees that human
> evil (as defined by the antonyms of chessed, mishpat and tzedaqah)
> depends on ignorance. But not because he rejects yh"t vs. yh"r, but
> because he feels the sufficient yedi'ah is what allows the yh"t to win.
> 
> 
But then why the emphasis on acquiring good midos through repeated practice in 8 Perakim and H. Deos? Shouldn't he just say 'mashcheihu l'beis hamidrash'?

DR

RJR:
> 
> I?ve often heard it said that one is better off getting punished in
> this world that in the world to come. Philosophically why should the
> sum total of punishment for any transgression be different depending
> on where one receives the punishment?
> 
> 
The function is different.  In this world punishment induces tshuvah. In
the Ramban's analysis in Shaar HaGmul in the next world one's faults are
removed and the wounds are cauterized, both (in an analogy that predates
anesthesia) painful.

  The pain isn't severable punishment in either world, it's part of the
  procedure.  The difference is that in this world we can still improve
  ourselves, in the next we can just salvage the functional bits.

David Riceman

The Torah Temimah this week (in the commentary, Bamidbar 15:5, #14)
quotes Bekhoros 60a about how maaser beheimah is every tenth one to pass
under the rod (the rod isn't me'aqeiv),  and there is even some level
of qedushah to an animal accidenatally called "asiri" (although calling
which is the 10th also isn't me'aqeiv).

It struck me that there is a fundamental difference between maaser of
crops and of animals.

Maaser of crops is of a tenth, 1/10. Echad mei'eser.

Maaser beheimah is the tenth, the ordinal -- not just any 1/10 of the flock
(rounded down to the nearest whole animal) but the 10th in order. Ha'asiri

But now I'm wondering what is means.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 The thought of happiness that comes from outside
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   the person, brings him sadness. But realizing
Author: Widen Your Tent      the value of one's will and the freedom brought
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF    by uplifting its, brings great joy. - R' Kook


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