Avodah Mailing List

Volume 40: Number 22

Tue, 29 Mar 2022

• 1. What did Moshe Rabenu get angry about? (Akiva Miller)
• 2. who determines norms? (Joel Rich)
• 3. Rabbi not answering a question (Joel Rich)
• 4. Re: terminology (Danny Schoemann)
• 5. Can one kasher plastic bowls and utensils for Pesach? (Prof. L. Levine)
• 6. Much More on the Dispute About the Date of Pesach (Prof. L. Levine)
• 7. Re: Much More on the Dispute About the Date of Pesach (Micha Berger)
• 8. Re: terminology (Micha Berger)

Without going into detail, the fourth and fifth aliyos of Parshas
Shmini tell of a disagreement between Moshe and Aharon regarding the
halachos of a certain korban. In the end (Vayikra 10:20) Moshe concedes
that Aharon was correct, and Gemara Zevachim (cited by Torah Temimah on
that pasuk) says that "Moshe admitted [to Aharon]... I learned that, but I
forgot it."

Rashi (Bamidbar 31:21) lists several cases where Moshe Rabenu got angry,
causing him to err, and Rashi lists this incident among them. In other
words, Moshe got angry, and this caused him to be mistaken about the
halachos of that korban.

My problem is that I don't understand this sequence of events. Exactly what
was it that caused Moshe to get angry? Prior to the moment when Moshe saw
that korban, he had no cause for anger, and had not yet forgotten the
halacha. In the next moment, when he did see the korban, his reaction
should have been, "they did it perfectly". But instead, pasuk 10:16 tells
us that Moshe saw and got angry. Why?

There seems to be some kind of paradox going on, or a reversal of
cause-and-effect. Moshe would get angry only as a result of mistakenly
thinking that the korban was done incorrectly. And he would make the
mistake of thinking that it was done incorrectly only if he was already
angry. Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

Akiva Miller
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Garments can change what they signify to others (just as words can) through
usage
=============================
Yes - that's my point.  If you view the group to be looked at in
determining change as being the jewish community, then the change process
came through enough "sinners"  doing it.
KT
Joel Rich
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There are at least three  halachic concepts that directly relate to this:

a) mutav sheyihu shogegain v'al heyhyu mezidin (see Beitza 30a) - if you
suspect that they will not follow the halacha anyway ,better that they do it
out of ignorance and do not sin deliberately;
============================
Does this apply when asked a direct question?
=========================

b) Halacha v'ain morin ken - a concept that is used at least seven times in
the Talmud (see Shabbat 12b, Eruvin 7a, Beitza 28b, Baba Kama 30b, Avodah
Zara 37b and  Menachot 37b).  Over simplistically - the concept of halacha
v'ain morin ken is used in circumstances where there are significant risks
of misunderstanding whether wilful or otherwise, with, usually, the
potential consequence of more significant breach of the halacha.  This
differs from the above in that it is not so much in relation to the
particular matter being asked about, but as a knock on effect, e.g.
something might be derived, or understood from what is said that leads to
other actions being taken that are incorrect; and
==================================
Does this apply when asked a direct question?
=========================


>Kt

>Joel rich
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R' J.R. asked:
what terms besides baal nefesh and yirei shamayim would you expect to be
used for a higher level of observance rhan mikar hadin(al taharat hakodesh?
others?)

IIRC, I've seen these:
HaMedakdekim (b'Mitzvos)

HeMehadrin

(HaChareidim LiDvar HaShem)

-Danny
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From today's OU Kosher Halacha Yomis


Q. Can one kasher plastic bowls and utensils for Pesach?

A. Rav Moshe Feinstein zt?l (Igros Moshe Orach Chaim II: 92) was asked
whether it is permissible to kasher synthetic materials for Pesach. He
writes that the Torah sets forth guidelines for kashering metal, wood and
clay, but does not discuss new materials that were recently developed.
Since we do not have any clear guidelines from the Torah or early poskim as
to what they might have held regarding these new materials, we should not
permit kashering them. However, many other poskim including Minchas
Yitzchak (3:67), Chelkas Yaakov (Yoreh Deah 45), Tzitz Eliezer (4:6) and
Rav Ovadya Yosef zt?l (Chazon Ovadya, Hilchos Pesach) were lenient,
provided that the plastic will not melt or get ruined from the kashering
process. However, if the plastic has scratches or cracks, it cannot be
kashered. Many in America have the minhag to follow Igros Moshe and not to
kasher plastic. However, if one does not know if that is their minhag, it
is the position of the OU poskim that one may be lenient if
  there is a need.

YL
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Rabbi Kenneth Auman pointed out to me that there was an article in Hakira that dealt extensively with this controversy. It is at

A Short History of the Jewish Fixed Calendar: The ... - Hakirah<https://hakirah.org/Vol20Ajdler.pdf>

Here is what the article says about this.

VIII The Dispute of R? Sa?adia Gaon and Ben Meir

On Hoshana Rabbah 921 C.E. The Palestinian Gaon Ben Meir or his son
proclaimed on the Mount of Olives that the months of Marheshvan and
Kislev of 4682 would be defective. As a result Passover 922 would fall on
Sunday instead of the following Tuesday if the year had been made full.
And in fact, in 922 the Jews of Palestine and probably the communities
in Egypt celebrated Passover on Sunday, two days before the Jews of Babylonia.
This split between the communities of Palestine and Babylonia
caused considerable agitation throughout world Jewry. References to this
event can be found in non-Jewish documents. The Syrian Elias of Nissibis131
wrote that in the year 1232 of the Seleucid era132 dissension broke
out between the Jews of the West (Palestine) and those of the East (Babylonia)
with regard to the calculation of their holiday. The Jews of the
West celebrated Rosh Hashanah 4683 on a Tuesday and those of the East
celebrated it on the next Thursday.133 Similarly the Karaite Sahal ben
Mazliah134 also referred this event and sought to prove from this controversy
that the rabbinic calendar calculations were groundless. According
Gatrad and in Tishrei 4684 there was the postponement Yah, therefore the
keviyah of the three years 4682, 4683 and 4684 were then: .???, ???, ???
By contrast, the Molad of the Palestinians was 642 h?al less and there was
no postponement in Tishrei 4683 and 4684 and the keviyah of the three
years 4682, 4683 and 4684 were: ???, ???, ??? .. Furthermore the astronomical
situation was exceptional on Rosh Hashanah 4683: the true conjunction
occurred about 1.5 hours after sunset on Monday evening. The
lunar latitude was about 5?, an exceptional fact, the moon was seen on
Tuesday evening in Egypt, in Palestine and even in Babylonia.

See the above URL for this article for much, much more.

YL
to the Babylonian Molad, in Tishrei 4683 there was the postponement
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On Tue, Mar 29, 2022 at 01:08:31PM +0000, Prof. L. Levine via Avodah wrote:
> Rabbi Kenneth Auman pointed out to me that there was an article in Hakira that dealt extensively with this controversy. It is at
> 
> A Short History of the Jewish Fixed Calendar: The ... - Hakirah<https://hakirah.org/Vol20Ajdler.pdf>

RAZivotofsky on the topic: https://www.aishdas.org/avodah/vol03/v03n033.shtml#19

RYGB and RAZZ, in a colaboration that began here, produced the following:
https://www.aishdas.org/avodah/vol05/v05n038.shtml#08

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 Despair is the worst of ailments. No worries
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   are justified except: "Why am I so worried?"
Author: Widen Your Tent                            - Rav Yisrael Salanter
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF

On Sun, Mar 27, 2022 at 11:49:42AM +0300, Danny Schoemann via Avodah wrote:
>> what terms besides baal nefesh and yirei shamayim would you expect to be
>> used for a higher level of observance rhan mikar hadin(al taharat hakodesh?
>> others?)

> IIRC, I've seen these:
> HaMedakdekim (b'Mitzvos)
> HeMehadrin

Unlike the two in RJR's original email, this term is more vague.

Both baal nefesh and yerei Shamayim are sur meira motivations. One
because of the noun "nefesh" and the other because of the "yarei"
(or plural yir'ei).

The baal nefesh is someone looking to be master of his nefesh. Nefesh
being the more gashmi aspects of the soul. So, someone looking to
control taavos.

A yarei Shamayim is by default (acc to Mesilas Yesharim) yir'as hacheit.
Which, in contrast to yir'as ha'onesh, is fear of sin itself. Not for
the consequences, but because one wants to have a healthy relationship
with and to obey the One in shamayim.

(Actually, in Widen Your Tent sec 8.4, I argue that yiras Shamayim
is soething more vague than yir'as Hashem. The latter invokes Hashem
directly. Whereas yiras Shamayim is about having a *higher* ideal,
and only by implication that for us that means Hashem's ideal. So that
yir'as shamayim would be fear of falling short of one's ideals, closer
to idealism but phrased in the negative. Although again, the ideal ideal
to live by is the one Hashem describes in the Torah.)

Whereas hiddur just means doing the mitzvah better. Could be an asei
tov, but needn't be.

> (HaChareidim LiDvar HaShem)

I haven't seen this one in primary sources.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 Man is capable of changing the world for the
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   better if possible, and of changing himself for
Author: Widen Your Tent      the better if necessary.
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF          - Victor Frankl, Man's search for Meaning


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