Avodah Mailing List

Volume 40: Number 9

Mon, 07 Feb 2022

• 1. Corners of the Chatzeir (Micha Berger)
• 2. AH"S (Joel Rich)
• 3. Re: shir hamaalot (Zev Sero)
• 4. Re: shir hamaalot (Akiva Miller)
• 5. Re: shir hamaalot (Joel Rich)
• 6. Re: Those Whose Halakhic Status Is Questionable (Akiva Miller)
• 7. For The Sake of Heaven (Prof. L. Levine)
• 8. Re: shir hamaalot (Zev Sero)
• 9. Re: AH"S (Micha Berger)

Were there amudim at the corners of the chatzeir?

The side walls had 20 pillars for 100 amos.
The back wall had 10 pillars for 50 amos.
The front wall (ignoring the sha'ar) were two 15 amah pieces, each with 3
pillars.

If you didn't know about Fencepost Errors, you might just assume that
the pillars were every 5 amos. But...

If one of the back's 10 pillars was in the corner, i.e. 0 amos from the
corner, then the second is at 5 amos, the 3rd at 10... and the 10th at
45 amost from that first corner. Not yet at the second corner.

So, where there amudim at the corners? And if so, which side's count
included the corners? Those pillars would end up being more than 5
amos apart.

Or maybe the corners of the chatzeir cut the diagonal, and there were no
pillars at the corner. So, the northmost pillar on the west side was a
bit away from the corner, the westmost pillar on the south side as well,
and the qela'im ran from one to the other, cutting the corner.

Anyone know if this is discussed?

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 You want to know how to paint a perfect
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   painting?  It's easy.
Author: Widen Your Tent      Make yourself perfect and then just paint
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF    naturally.              -Robert Pirsig

I?m currently reading ?Taaroch Lfanai Shulchan? based on the writings of
R? Henkin HY?D. Besides helping improve my Hebrew, the insights into R?
Epsteins rabbanut as he wrote the Aruch Hashulchan put a sharp point on the
difference between a rabbinic authority for a diverse congregation and one
writing in a scholarly milieu. In the former, the necessity of taking into
account the impact not only on the committed but also those on the fringes
that could go either way is palpable. The communal resistance to change in
current practice also is a significant factor. The treatment of cantors is
a clear case in point.
KT
Joel Rich
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On 1/2/22 22:52, Joel Rich via Avodah wrote:
> MB (3:11) points out that shir hamaalot is said before birchat hamazon 
> on Shabbat (and non-tachanun days) in place of al naharot bavel. So how 
> did the replacement become fixed and the original ISTM become abandoned?

Among whom has it been abandoned?   I'm not aware of this abandonment, 
or how widespread it is.  Of course nowadays there are a lot of people 
who only ever bench on Shabbos and Yomtov or at a wedding or such event, 
so they would always say shir hamaalos.

I recently realised that since the only occasions on which I generally 
say a whole sefer of tehillim are on Shabbos/Yomtov, I don't recall ever 
saying the weekday version of the yehi ratzon afterward.  This only came 
to my attention because I was in a minyan whose custom is to say the 
yehi ratzon after saying any amount of tehillim, and I had no idea what 
they were saying.  So nahara nahara upashteih.

-- 
Zev Sero            Wishing everyone health, wealth, and
z...@sero.name       happiness in 2022

.
R' Joel Rich asked:

> MB (3:11) points out that shir hamaalot is said before birchat
> hamazon on Shabbat (and non-tachanun days) in place of al
> naharot bavel. So how did the replacement become fixed and the
> original ISTM become abandoned?

Rav Yosef brei d'Rav Yehoshua said that he saw an upside-down world; what
should be on top was below, and what should be below was on top. (Bava
Basra 10b)

I'm not the first to wonder if this describes some of the craziness that
we're living through nowadays. I think your question is yet another
illustration of how so many (myself included, but maybe this post will
strengthen my yetzer tov) are ignoring the ikar and following the tafel.

How did it happen? R' Micha Berger suggested that our rushed lives may be
to blame. I'll add that the fun tunes for Shir Hamaalos are a lot more
appealing than a dirge like Al Naharos Bavel.

While we're speaking about fun tunes, I'll mention a pet peeve of mine,
which is also in this category of downplaying the ikar and focusing on the
tafel: In shuls where congregational singing is common, my experience is
that in Kedusha of Shabbos and Yom Tov morning (both Shacharis and Musaf)
the Ikar Pesukim (Kadosh, Baruch, and Yimloch) tend to be recited
emotionlessly, whereas the introductory lines and paragraphs (which were
intended to be said specifically by the Chazan, in order to induce an
enthusiastic response from the tzibur) are nowadays sung by everyone
together. (Few events in shul depress me as much as when a chazan sings an
emotional rendition of Carlebach's "Mimkomcha", and then the tzibur just
mumbles Yimloch, instead of continuing the tune for eight more words.)

Akiva Miller
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> 
> Among whom has it been abandoned?	 I'm not aware of this abandonment,
> or how widespread it is.  Of course nowadays there are a lot of people
> who only ever bench on Shabbos and Yomtov or at a wedding or such
> event, so they would always say shir hamaalos.
> ?-/-/?/?-/-/
Well I can?t say that I?ve seen a number of birchons we?re only shir hamalot is included. 
Kt
Joel rich

.
R' Jay F. ("Yaakov") Shachter wrote:

> ... I find that we are living, today, lives that are identical,
> absolutely identical in all the important ways, to the lives
> that are described in the Talmuds, and in Josephus, and in the
> Books of Maccabees.  Beyond that I am frankly not sure -- I'm
> not sure if our ancestors in Biblical times (or, more precisely,
> one of the factions among our ancestors in Biblical times, because
> there were factions even then, of course) lived lives that were
> identical, in all the important ways, to the lives that we live
> today.  But at least going back to the late apocrypha -- I
> recognize those people as Torah-observant Jews, they are just like
> me, in all the important ways.

RJF"Y"S doesn't say it explicitly, but it seems to me that his cutoff point
between our "lives that are identical, absolutely identical in all the
important ways" and that of "our ancestors in Biblical times", was Churban
Bayis Sheni.

I have read many articles over the years (but unfortunately I cannot
remember or cite any of them except one, which I'll mention soon) which
talk about how traumatizing that event was. And especially so, once the
chachamim of the time realized that this was no 70-year blip like the first
Churban, but that we were now in it for the long haul. And we are indebted
to them for their foresight in engineering a new Judaism for the new era.

This revision affected many areas of Torah. The one we encounter most
frequently might be the replacement of korbanos with tefilah. This change,
of course, was sanctioned by the pasuk "unshalma farim s'faseinu", but we
are so accustomed to it that we forget (or perhaps never really
appreciated) how revolutionary it was to those who lived through it.

The one citation I can offer regarding this is an article by R' Arnold
Lustiger which was sent to the Mail-Jewish email group in Elul 1995.
(Unfortunately, I cannot find it anywhere on today's internet via Google,
and I'll be happy to email it to anyone who asks. It IS available in print,
on pp 85-102 of Lustiger's "Before Hashem You Shall Be Purified: Rabbi
Joseph B. Soloveitchik on the Days of Awe") It was titled "Rabbi Akiva's
Homily on Teshuva", and was based on Rav JB Soloveitchik's 1973 teshuva
drasha.

He begins by quoting the Rambam at length, with his description of the
kapparah which was achieved by the sa'ir hamishtalaiach, and how teshuva
was a prerequisite to that procedure. And he continues:

> Today, however, during a time when the sa'ir hamishtalaich no
> longer exists, the means to contemporary atonement is described
> by the initial verse cited above by Rabbi Akiva:
>
> "Because *through* this day He will forgive you, to purify you
> from all your sins, before Hashem will you be purified..".
> (Leviticus 16:30)
> ...
> The power of the itzumo shel yom is therefore the essential message
> of Rabbi Akiva. A demoralized nation that could not imagine a Yom
> Kippur without the various Temple rituals was told that a new type
> of atonement> can be readily attained. In contrast to the sa'ir,
> which involved an intricate ritual accomplished by the high priest,
> atonement is no longer mediated: "Lifnei Hashem Tit'haru". The
> itzumo shel yom does not require a high priest as intermediary:
> "Lifnei mi atem mitaharim - Avikhem Shebashamayim".(3,4)
>
> The role of teshuva has thus been transformed after the Temple's
> destruction. Teshuva serves a new function: from prerequisite for
> atonement to atonement itself. Today, teshuva affords the same
> atonement as sacrifices in the Temple period.

I think that we tend to be unaware of how drastic this change was. The
Judaism we have today is "identical, absolutely identical in all the
important ways" to that of Rabbi Akiva -- and very different from that
which Rabbi Akiva grew up with.

(Another difference between then and now: Someone once pointed out to me
that Boaz recognized Ruth's tzidkus from how she was careful about tzedaka
and the agricultural halachos, and not a word appears about her Shabbos and
kashrus.)

On a very different issue, RJF"Y"S wrote:

> (The deviant sect that I worry about, more than I worry about
> Reform Judaism, or Conservative Judaism, or Reconstructionist
> Judaism -- those people are no threat at all -- is Kollel
> Judaism, a deviant sect that believes that you can be paid for
> learning Torah, which is totally contrary to the halakha.
> Those are the people who are seriously threatening authentic
> Judaism, and I do worry a little about that, because I don't see
> them dying out, yet; but still my knowledge of Jewish history
> assures me, intellectually even if not emotionally, that the
> Kollel Jews will eventually shrivel up and die, they will go
> the way of the Sabbateans and the Frankists, whereas authentic
> Judaism will remain.)

I have begun to see some evidence to the contrary. More and more adherents
of Kollel Judaism are opening and attending various schools where they can
get training in other types of employment. My hope is that they will not
"shrivel up and die [in] the way of the Sabbateans", but that they and we
will rub off on each other in the way of the Chasidim and Misnagdim. Lest
anyone misunderstand me, I'll explain that soundbite:

As I understand it, the original Chasidim saw a particular problem in
Jewish life, and they tried to remedy it. The opposition (Heb.: misnagdim)
felt that the Chasidim went so far overboard as to be "a deviant sect". It
took decades and centuries, but it seems TO ME that both groups have seen
some value in the other, and have both moderated their position to the
point where in many cases we get along quite nicely. So too, it is my hope
that even if Kollel Judaism sanctions (or seems to sanction) something that
is (or might be) assur, they have been very successful at reminding the
rest of us how important Talmud Torah is; and in return they are (or seem
to be) moderating their insistence that everyone stay in the beis medrash
forever.

Akiva Miller
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The following is from the Sefer Rav Schwab on Chumash, Parshas Terumah Shemos 25:2

???????? ??????????? ??????????? ?????????????? ?????????? ?????? ??????????? ??????? ???????????? ??????? ????????? ?????????????????:

At a bris milah, the Rav cited the story of Elisha ben Avuya:

The general rule that one may perform mitzvos for ulterior motives does not apply to the building
of the Mishkan, nor does it apply to a parent's obligation to educate his children.
The Talmud Yerushalmi ( Chagigah 2:1) states that the great scholar Elisha ben Avuya, the rebbi of
Rabbi Meir ended his life as a heretic. It recounts that Elisha's father had invited many of the
great scholars of Yerushalayim to Elisha's bris mi/ah. The scholars spoke words of Torah with such
intensity that a Heavenly fire enveloped them, as if to set them aside from the rest of the guests
and give them special recognition from Above. Avuya declared, "If this is how great scholars are
honored, I want my son Elisha, whose bris mi/ah is today, to also become a great Torah sage."
Because Avuya wanted his son to become a scholar to gain honor, and not for the sake of Hashem and
His Torah, Elisha became a heretic.

One might wonder in what way  Avuya  erred.  After  all, Chazal permit us to  fulfill  mitzvos
and learn Torah  shelo  lishmah, in order to attain personal goals. The answer is that a human
being is a mekdash m'at), a miniature sanctuary. Just as the Mishkan had to be constructed
completely for Hashem's sake, a human being must be consecrated at the beginning of his life solely
for Hashem. One must not raise a child in order to gain honor or even to derive nachas. When
parents raise a child, their sole intention must be that the child should grow up to increase
Hashem's glory in the world. If the child gives them pleasure or brings honor to them, that is a
gift from Hashem. But that must never be the purpose of having children or raising them in the
derech ha Torah.

Yitzchok Levine
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On 6/2/22 04:11, Joel Rich via Avodah wrote:
>> Among whom has it been abandoned?   I'm not aware of this
>> abandonment, or how widespread it is.	Of course nowadays there
>> are a lot of people who only ever bench on Shabbos and Yomtov or
>> at a wedding or such event, so they would always say shir
>> hamaalos.
>> ?-/-/?/?-/-/
> Well I can?t say that I?ve seen a number of birchons we?re only shir hamalot is included.

Maybe because they're printed for events such as weddings and Shabbos 
meals, at which shir hamaalos is said...

-- 
Zev Sero            Wishing everyone health, wealth, and
z...@sero.name       happiness in 2022

On Thu, Feb 03, 2022 at 01:53:44AM -0500, Joel Rich via Avodah wrote:
> I'm currently reading "Taaroch Lfanai Shulchan" based on the writings of
> R' Henkin HY"D. Besides helping improve my Hebrew, the insights into R'
> Epsteins rabbanut as he wrote the Aruch Hashulchan put a sharp point on the
> difference between a rabbinic authority for a diverse congregation and one
> writing in a scholarly milieu...

Which, according to his father, RYHH z"tl (the Benei Banim and Avodah
member), was the motive his great-grandfather (R Yosef Eliyahu Henkin)
gave for preferring the AhS over the MB.

The haqdamah and the title page of the MB says its purpose is to give
a survey of opinions that post-dates the standard SA page, to give
access to opinions that many do not have in their homes. Rather than
intending the MB to be a "poseiq acharon" for the masses, the CC
intended to put together a tool for LORs, where his conclusions were
more theoretical.

Which would be sufficient to explain why the MB is more textualist.
It's about the texts. There is no need to delve into the mimetic aspect
of pesaq. Which in turn explains why the CC didn't always practice like
the MB.

More at https://aspaqlaria.aishdas.org/2015/05/31/textualism-mb

Between TlFS, R/Drs Broyde and Pill's book on the AhS's methodology,
Urim coming out with the first volume of a Hebrew-English edition
(OC 242-292, Hil' Shabbos part I), and AhS Yomi*...

... I was asked to write an article about the AhS for The Jewish Press.
It's at https://bit.ly/3HyD7NG or
https://www.jewishpress.com/judaism/torah/reconsidering-the-aruch-hashulchan-how-rav-y-m-epsteins-masterwork-invites-you-into-a-generational-discussion/2021/11/28/

In it I portray the AhS as a continuation of halakhah-as-process, the
reason why we still learn Shas after the Rif published its masqanos,
why the opposition to the SA only fell away because of the existence
of the BY and of nosei keilim turning it into a point in the dialog,
and not a stifling codification, etc...

(And, by the editor's insistence, I did have to throw in a few words
comparing the AhS to the MB. But I think that's unfair to both sefarim.)


* Time out for a reminder that AishDas has an AhS Yomi program with
something like 200 people following our schedule. It covers OC and the
latter part of YD that is relevant to the masses -- from egg spots to
kibud av to nichum aveilim, etc...

Resources are available at http://aishdas.org/ahs-yomi
the Aruch HaShulchan Yomi facebook group,
and the Sefaria calendar of daily learning page.
RYGB is giving a daily shiur on YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXhYlGVtIOa90yH1vcNYptMf5d3OEdQHl
although most are learning on their own with the schedule available
on the web site.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 People were created to be loved.
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   Things were created to be used.
Author: Widen Your Tent      The reason why the world is in chaos is that
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF    things are being loved, people are being used.


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