Avodah Mailing List

Volume 39: Number 77

Wed, 01 Sep 2021

• 1. Re: Correct Pronunciation of Hebrew (Arie Folger)
• 2. Reciting L'Dovid Hashem Ori, A Secret History (Prof. L. Levine)
• 3. Re: OU Mini Seedless Cucumbers (Zev Sero)
• 4. Re: Deuteronomy 22:17 (Akiva Blum)
• 5. Re: Reciting L'Dovid Hashem Ori, A Secret History (Micha Berger)
• 6. Re: peshuto shel mikra (Zev Sero)
• 7. Re: peshuto shel mikra (Micha Berger)
• 8. bechira? (Rich, Joel)
• 9. Which foods should one avoid eating on Rosh Hashana? (Prof. L. Levine)

R'Prof. LLevine write:
> As a fan of all things Ashkenaz,  I suggest that the Ashkenaz
> pronunciation is preferable and probably correct. It has the
> difference between beis and veis, sof and tof!

Ahah, interesting. And what about gimmel with and with dagesh? Daleth with
and without dagesh? ?Het and khaf? Quf and kof? Alef and ?yin?

The truth is, that nobody has a monopoly on the correct pronunciation, but
many communities preserved indispensable parts thereof. Modern Hebrew
pronunciation is a nightmare, as it willfully combines all the mistakes
that crept in to any community and settles for the lowest common
denominator. We should really rebrand it as the Hebrew for Beginners
Pronunciation.

But none of that is germany to your reaction to RMB's comment, RP.LL. RMB's
comment about correct Hebrew pronunciation wasn't to elevate one messorah
over another, but rather to highlight who cares to pronounce Hebrew
properly and who doesn't care as much. And in addition, RMB was
concentrating on grammar, for which Mediaeval and early post Mediaeval
Ashkenaz mostly had not much interest.

Shana tova,
-- 
Mit freundlichen Gr??en,
Yours sincerely,

Arie Folger,
Visit my blog at http://rabbifolger.net/
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Many people have the custom to recite L'Dovid Hashem Ori this time of year.
On the other hand, minhag Frankfurt and (I believe) Sanser Chassidim and
others do not say this.

for an interesting talk about this issue by Dr. Shnayer Leiman<https://www.yutorah.org/dr-shnayer-leiman/>
go to

https://www.yutorah.org/lectures/lecture.cfm/736949/dr-shnayer-leiman/reciting-l-dovid-hashem-ori-a-secret-history/

I think you may be surprised by what he has to say.

YL
YUTorah Online - Reciting L'Dovid Hashem Ori, A Secret History (Dr. Shnayer
Leiman)<https://www.yutorah.org/lectures/lecture.cfm/736949/dr-shnayer-leiman/reciting-l-dovid-hashem-ori-a-secret-history/>
Dr. Leiman examines the dubious custom of reciting Psalm 27 in Elul and
Tishrei. He sheds light on the varying customs regarding its inclusion in
tefila and traces its murky liturgical origins.Given ...
www.yutorah.org



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On 30/8/21 3:12 pm, Micha Berger via Avodah wrote:
> The question would be: Do they prohibit using ingredients that would
> only be kosher by relying on bitul?

I know that the Chicago CRC (as opposed to the His'achdus, which is also 
CRC) allows the use of equipment that is only kosher because of bitul -- 
even when the bitul is done specifically at the Jews' request!  Clamato 
contains less than 1/60 clam juice; at the CRC's request the clam juice 
is added last, so that it will be batel and will therefore not make the 
equipment treif.  The CRC will of course not give a hechsher to the 
Clamato itself, despite the bitul; but it does give a hechsher to other 
products made on the same equipment without kashering.

-- 
Zev Sero            Wishing everyone health, wealth, and
z...@sero.name       happiness in 5782

On Wed, Aug 25, 2021 at 9:54 PM Akiva Miller via Avodah <
avo...@lists.aishdas.org> wrote:

> .
> Over Shabbos, I was wondering what Rashi (who says that there is no actual
> physical sheet here) could mean on a practical level. How does one bring
> witnesses to a person's virginity? Was she under constant surveillance by
> kosher witnesses, who will testify that she never snuck away to be with
> someone?
>
>
Please see the Rambam Naarah Besulah perek 3 halacha 6, where he says that
the eidim of the husband are zomemim.
https://www.sefaria.org.il/Mishneh_Torah%2C_Virgin_Maiden.3.7?lang=he

Akiva
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On Tue, Aug 31, 2021 at 12:49:05PM +0000, Prof. L. Levine via Avodah wrote:
> for an interesting talk about this issue by Dr. Shnayer Leiman to go
> https://www.yutorah.org/lectures/lecture.cfm/736949

> I think you may be surprised by what he has to say.

This teaser with its "may be surprised" made me think R Leiman promoted
the idea that it originated as a Sabbatean practice. Something we
discussed here in the past and had already established established R/Dr
Leiman defends the minhag against its most popular objection! So, the
only surprise I had was caused by listening after being told to expect
that I may be surprised.

I thank RYL for providing the recording.

1- Debate has reemerged in recent decades about whether Chemdat Yamim
   has a Sabbatian source after all.

   The poem with Nathan of Gaza's name as the acrostic found in early
   editions could have been more recent than the book itself. Something
   he added to the edition he or his followers had published.

   R/Dr SL cites earlier sources and just mentions in passing in

2- Regardless, the custom of saying LeDavid in the season is broader.
   (And R/Dr SL quotes the Mateh Ephraim who shows a source in one
   opinion, among several, in Medrash Tehillim that the pereq is merameiz
   to RH and Yom Kippur. And he reads a quote from the author of the
   Shem Tov Qatan that says [decades before CY] we say LeDavid in this
   season because the 13 sheimos in it parallel the 13 Middos haRachamim.)

   The only aspect attributable to the CY is twice a day at the end
   of davening.

   There was a custom, for example, to say it instead of LeDavid Mizmor
   during hotza'as Seifer Torah.

3- R Leiman mentioned Maaseh Rav, but didn't give the rationale. The
   problem Granikim have with saying LeDavid at the end of davening is
   about saying peraqim of Tehillim in addition to Shir Shel Yom. If
   you say both Shir Shel Yom and Borkhi Nafshi on RC, your practice is
   already to ignore the Gra's concern.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 For those with faith there are no questions.
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   For those who lack faith there are no answers.
Author: Widen Your Tent                        - Rav Yaakov of Radzimin
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF

On 30/8/21 12:27 pm, Micha Berger via Avodah wrote:
> I have a theory that I only spot-checked and could use MUCH more work.
> I think Rashi's "peshat" includes anything that explains a grammatical
> anomaly.

Yes, exactly.  Grammar is part of peshat, and when there's an anomaly it 
needs explaining.  Rashi tries first to explain it without resorting to 
agada, and if he can't then he cites only as much from an agada as is 
necessary to explain it, omitting those parts of the same agada that 
aren't necessary for the peshat.

See the booklet "Klalei Rashi", https://www.hebrewbooks.org/30463 , 
based on the LR's hundreds of explanations on various comments by Rashi, 
analyzing each one to explain why he wrote it exactly as he did.

-- 
Zev Sero            Wishing everyone health, wealth, and
z...@sero.name       happiness in 5782

On Tue, Aug 31, 2021 at 10:39:49AM -0400, Zev Sero via Avodah wrote:
>> I have a theory that I only spot-checked and could use MUCH more work.
>> I think Rashi's "peshat" includes anything that explains a grammatical
>> anomaly.

> Yes, exactly....
> See the booklet "Klalei Rashi", https://www.hebrewbooks.org/30463 , based on
> the LR's hundreds of explanations on various comments by Rashi, analyzing
> each one to explain why he wrote it exactly as he did.

Barukh shekivanti!

But it's still beyond what the Rashbam would have called peshat.

This side-bar started with RJFShachter writing:
> According to Lubavitchers.  Not according to his grandson.  Read
> Rashbam on Genesis 37:2...

BTW, here are links to RJFS's favorite two Rashbam's mentioned
in that post, both in Bereishis (in order of his preferences):

49:16, "Dan yadin amo": https://www.sefaria.org/Rashbam_on_Genesis.49.16.1
37:2, "eileh toledos Yaaqov": https://www.sefaria.org/Rashbam_on_Genesis.37.2.1

Given the theme, I would also look at the Rashbam on "vayhi erev vayhi
voqer" in 1:3: https://www.sefaria.org/Rashbam_on_Genesis.1.5.3

And his explainer to his approach in contrast to the derashos used to
determine halakhah the beginning of Mishpatim:
https://www.sefaria.org/Rashbam_on_Exodus.21.1.1
R Eliyhu Munk's translation:
   Everyone endowed with intelligence should know that it is not my
   purpose to explain halachic rulings as part of my commentary, something
   I have mentioned already in my commentary at the beginning of Parshat
   Vayeshev. I explained there that many such rulings are hinted at by
   variant spellings in the text, missing words or extraneous words. Many
   of these have been covered in the commentary on the Torah by my
   grandfather Rashi of blessed memory. I have set myself the task of only
   explaining the plain meaning of the text as it is before us. When I
   explain legislation I do so within the context of its contribution to
   civilised behaviour, [derekh eretz]. My explanations notwithstanding,
   when they conflict with the halachic rulings, the latter are supreme.

Notice he is talking about halakhah in particular.

This is in contrast to IE, who prefers a peshat that is consistent with
derashah (including but not limited to those that impact the din). It is
one thing not to be a source, it's another for the two to be at odds. See
the end of the IE's introduction.
    Heaven forbid that we join with the Tzeduqim who say that the Chazals'
    interpretation contradicts Scripture. Rather all their words are
    emes, and H' Elokim is emes, and will lead his servant along the
    path of truth.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

Bava Batra 164b quotes R'Sheshet as saying there are three sins "ein adam nitzol mehen bchol yom." Sounds like free will can't overcome?
KVCT
Joel Rich

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From today's OU Kosher Halacha Yomis


Q. Which foods should one avoid eating on Rosh Hashana?

A. Just as we eat sweet apples and other foods on Rosh Hashana because of
their symbolic significance, it is customary to avoid bitter and vinegary
foods on Rosh Hashana (see, for example, Kitzur Shulchan Aruch 129:9).

The Rama (Orach Chaim 583:2) writes that some avoid eating egozim (walnuts)
on Rosh Hashana. This is because the gematria (numerical value) of the
Hebrew word ?egoz? is the same as the numerical value of the word cheit
(sin). Additionally, nuts cause an increase in phlegm which can disturb
one?s prayers. Magen Avrohom (583:4) points out that according to the
second reason, one should not eat any nut, and not only egozim (walnuts).
Be?er Moshe (3:97) writes that ground nuts (other than walnuts) that are
part of a recipe do not pose a concern.

It is recorded (Ma?ase Rav 210) that the Vilna Gaon did not eat grapes on
Rosh Hashana. Some explain that this is because on Rosh Hashana, Adam ate
from the Tree of Knowledge, and according to some opinions in the Gemara
the forbidden fruit was the grape. However, Kaf Ha?chaim (583:21) writes
that only black grapes need be avoided. He explains the custom of the Vilna
Gaon based on the Gemara (Berachos 56b) that black grapes are considered a
bad sign.


YL

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