Avodah Mailing List

Volume 39: Number 25

Sun, 21 Mar 2021

• 1. Re: orthodox non-compliance with Covid rules (Micha Berger)
• 2. Selling Chometz on Shabbos Erev Pesach (Akiva Miller)
• 3. Re: orthodox non-compliance with Covid rules (Akiva Miller)
• 4. What is the origin of the custom of not eating gebrochts (matzah dipped in water)? (Prof. L. Levine)
• 5. avel showering Friday (mco...@touchlogic.com)

On Mar 17, 2021, at 11:25 AM, Rich, Joel wrote:
> IMHO the issue alluded to (in a post concerning orthodox non-compliance
> with Covid rules) may be more of one of not seeing the forest for the
> trees. When one is taught to look at the letter of the law exclusively one
> can forget about the spirit of the law. The goal becomes the technical
> compliance ...

I used a different metaphor in the opening of Widen Your Tent, that of
an apprentice to an overly methofical carpenter. (Since it's a book about
the haqdamah to Shaarei Yosher, I called this chapter, "The Introduction
to the Introduction".)

    The carpenter teaches his apprentice one skill at a time, mastering
    each in order before moving on to the next. So the young lad learns
    how to use a hammer, learning how to drive the nail in, straight and
    true, in just a few blows. Then he is introduced to the screwdriver,
    in all its variants. And when he learns how to screw into any wood
    without stripping the threads or the head of a Phillips screwdriver,
    they move on the trade's various saws. And so on through the whole
    toolset. In fact, the master teaches his apprentice multiple opinions
    about proper technique, and even ways to use the tools according to
    various opinions of how to maximize success at the same time. And
    then, as they just complete practicing a few ways of joining corners,
    the master, sadly, dies, leaving the student knowing everything about
    woodwork, but with only a layman's knowledge of the construction
    of a cabinet, table, or chair. Or how to build shelves that can
    support the weight of a library of books, and the like. And the
    apprentice is even further from any knowledge of how to express
    himself artistically, such as through detailed woodworking."

This problem is worse than the forest vs. the trees. It's knowing how
to walk (the "halakh" of halakhah) and not knowing where to go (having
a derekh). If you miss the forest for the trees, at least you have
trees. If you don't know how to define the goals halakhah are to help
you reach in a way that works for you, you could walk the wrong direction.

    Rav Chananel bar Papa said: What is meant by, "Hear, for I will
    speak princely things, [and my lips will open with what is right]"
    (Mishlei 8:6)? Words of Torah are compared to a ruler, to tell you
    that just as a ruler has power of life and death, so too the words
    of the Torah [have potential for] life or death.
    As Rava said: To those who go to the right side of it, it is a sam
    hachaim, a medicine for life; to those who go to its left, it is a
    sam hamaves, an elixir of death.
                        - Shabbos 88a

In addition to creating a culture where people don't bother thinking
about what all the CoVID rules are for, since we're used to just thinking
about the rules (to summarize how I heard RJR's point), there is a more
direct connection.

We've become so obsessed with personal observance, with "frumkeit", that
we risk lives in ways that would be unthinkable to true ovedei Hashem.
Religion as a literal sam hamaves.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 The same boiling water
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   that softens the potato, hardens the egg.
Author: Widen Your Tent      It's not about the circumstance,
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF    but rather what you are made of.

.
In a regular year, Erev Pesach (for those who sell their chometz) is rather
simple. For the early morning, we can do whatever we want with our chometz,
including eating it, and doing business with it. At a certain point, we
must stop eating it, and shortly thereafter, the rav sells all the
chometz that we've set aside to a non-Jew.

This year, the rav will obviously do this business with the non-Jew before
Shabbos; it is a regular business transaction, and all the papers must be
signed etc etc etc before Shabbos begins. But exactly when is this kinyan
chal? Exactly when is the ownership transferred, and when does the rental
of the storage space begin?

My point is this thread is to suggest that each person should check with
their rav to find out the answer. Perhaps there are ways to do all the
paperwork etc before Shabbos, yet have it not take effect until a certain
time on Shabbos morning. That would be very convenient. But if it all takes
effect on Erev Shabbos, then there are several practical ramifications that
people might not realize, especially for those who have reserved some
chometz to be eaten on Shabbos.

If the sale has already taken place on Erev Shabbos, then all my
chometz MUST be gotten rid of on Shabbos morning. If the challah was too
large for everyone to eat, I do not have the option of putting the
remainder with the chometz to be sold. The sale already took place, and
this chometz will remain mine. My only options are to eat it, or do some
other form of biur.

On the flip side, I also don't have the option of retrieving something from
the "chometz to be sold" area. In a normal year, if it is Erev Pesach
morning and there is an item in the "to be sold" area that I want to eat,
there's no problem eating it. But this year, if the sale already took place
on Erev Shabbos, then it is too late. Even entering that area would be a
violation of the rental agreement.

So if you're planning to sell your chometz this year, please ask your rav
when the sale takes effect. Or show me where my logic is mistaken.

Akiva Miller
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.aishdas.org/pipermail/avodah-aishdas.org/attachments/20210318/9e0cf3e8/attachment-0001.html>

.
R' Joel Rich wrote:

> IMHO the issue alluded to (in a post concerning orthodox non-
> compliance with Covid rules) may be more of one of not seeing
> the forest for the trees. When one is taught to look at the
> letter of the law exclusively one can forget about the spirit
> of the law. The goal becomes the technical compliance (e.g.
> claiming kids are part of a permitted demonstration rather than
> learning in school) vs. technical and meta compliance ...

If the topic of discussion is Spirit vs Letter of the law, I will cite an
article I just read, according to which "the Chief Rabbinate of Israel will
include chametz of Jews in the Diaspora who are not aware of the chametz
sale contract..."

cite:
https://collive.com/rabbis-decide-to-unilateraly-sell-chometz-of-europes-jews/

I do understand that some poskim allow Mechiras Chometz for someone even
without their knowledge, but I've always presumed that would be used for
people who are R"L unconscious and unable to sell it themselves.

But this is an entirely different case. I appreciate the rabbis' desire to
minimize the violations of these tinolos shenishbu. But it seems to me that
this mechira would have the effect of totally circumventing the entire
halacha of Chametz She'avar Alav Hapesach. Details would need to be studied
(like the status of chametz that a store acquires during Pesach) but on the
simple face of it, this mechira would allow any of us to shop anywhere in
chu"l after Pesach (at least b'dieved).

The Letter of the law says this is a great idea. But the Spirit of the law
says not.

When a Jew does melacha on Shabbos, and I want to get hanaah from it,
halacha makes distinctions whether the melacha was done b'shogeg or
b'meizid. Similar distinctions could have been applied to Chametz She'avar
Alav Hapesach, but instead, Chazal chose to legislate a boycott, in the
hopes that these Jews would mend their ways.

CONCLUSION AND DISCLAIMER: I am NOT suggesting that these rabanim are
wrong. It is their job to weigh the benefits and drawbacks of such an idea.
All I'm saying is that it seems to be a great example of how an
implementation of the Letter might go very much against the Spirit. (And if
it turns out that this article didn't get the story right, it's still an
example of how Letter and Spirit *might* conflict.)

Akiva Miller
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.aishdas.org/pipermail/avodah-aishdas.org/attachments/20210318/7215f9ac/attachment-0001.html>

From today's OU Kosher Halacha Yomis


Q. What is the origin of the custom of not eating gebrochts (matzah dipped in water)?

A. The Shulchan Aruch (OC 463:3) rules that flour made from roasted wheat
kernels may not be mixed with water on Pesach. Even though wheat that is
fully roasted cannot become chometz, we are concerned that perhaps some
kernels were not properly roasted, and subsequently, the flour might become
chometz when mixed with water. The same concern applies to matzah with
flour on its surface. It is forbidden to mix such matzah with water because
the flour may not be fully baked and would be susceptible to becoming
chometz (MB 463:8). Where there is no perceptible flour in or on the
matzah, is there a concern that some of the dough may not have been
thoroughly mixed, and within the matzah there may be raw flour that was not
fully baked? There are two different customs; Mishnah Berurah (458:4) notes
that there are anshei ma?aseh, scrupulous individuals, who act stringently
and do not allow matzah to come in contact with water, as perhaps it may
contain unbaked flour. Many Chassidim have this c
 ustom. However, Mishnah Berurah (ibid., citing Shaarei Teshuva 460)
 maintains that this stringency is not halachicaly mandated, since there is
 no evidence of raw flour in matzah. In addition, our matzos are thin-like
 crackers, and it is highly unlikely they will contain flour. This was the
 opinion of Chazon Ish (OC 121:19) as well. Shaarei Teshuva, (OC 460:10)
 notes that both groups are meritorious. Those who do not eat gebrochts are
 motivated by yiras shomayim (fear of heaven), lest they inadvertently
 transgress the laws of Pesach. The ones who are lenient are concerned that
 not eating gebrochts will limit their simchas (joy of) Yom Tov. Shaarei
 Teshuva concludes: ?Both groups are pursuing paths for the sake of Heaven,
 and I declare: And Your people are entirely righteous (Yeshaya 60:21).?

I note the following in the above. " However, Mishnah Berurah (ibid.,
citing Shaarei Teshuva 460) maintains that this stringency is not
halachicaly mandated, since there is no evidence of raw flour in matzah. In
addition, our matzos are thin-like crackers, and it is highly unlikely they
will contain flour. This was the opinion of Chazon Ish (OC 121:19) as well.
"

YL
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.aishdas.org/pipermail/avodah-aishdas.org/attachments/20210319/09920970/attachment-0001.html>

Does anyone know a source for the (common) belief that showering is ok for
an avel on Friday as prep for Shabbos?

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.aishdas.org/pipermail/avodah-aishdas.org/attachments/20210319/3da5a849/attachment-0001.html>

------------------------------



_______________________________________________
Avodah mailing list
Avo...@lists.aishdas.org
http://www.aishdas.org/lists/avodah
http://lists.aishdas.org/listinfo.cgi/avodah-aishdas.org


------------------------------


**************************************

Send Avodah mailing list submissions to
	avodah@lists.aishdas.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
	http://www.aishdas.org/lists/avodah/avodahareivim-membership-agreement/


You can reach the person managing the list at
	avodah-owner@lists.aishdas.org


When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Avodah digest..."

A list of common acronyms is available at
        http://www.aishdas.org/lists/avodah/avodah-acronyms
(They are also visible in the web archive copy of each digest.)