Avodah Mailing List

Volume 39: Number 20

Thu, 04 Mar 2021

• 1. Reciting Hamotzi at a Simcha (Prof. L. Levine)
• 2. kupat tzedaka (Rich, Joel)
• 3. What Is and What Is Not TIDE (Prof. L. Levine)
• 4. Re: Reciting Hamotzi at a Simcha (Micha Berger)
• 5. Re: What Is and What Is Not TIDE (Rich, Joel)

From today's OU Kosher Halacha Yomis


Q. Next to the washing station at a simcha hall there are cut up pieces of
pita. At my table there is a whole roll. Is it preferable for me to recite
Hamotzi right away, to minimize the hefsek (delay) between washing and
Hamotzi, or should I wait until I return to my table so I can recite
Hamotzi on a whole loaf of bread?

A. First, let's review the general halochos of hefsek between netilas
yadayim and Hamotzi. Shulchan Aruch (OC 166:1) quotes a dispute whether one
is required to recite Hamotzi immediately after washing netilas yadayim, or
is it not necessary. Because of the uncertainty, the Shulchan Aruch
concludes that it is best not to delay. The Rema adds that if one waited
between drying their hands and reciting Hamotzi longer than the time it
takes to walk 22 amos (approximately 10 seconds), it is considered a
hefsek. Nonetheless, the Mishnah Berurah (ibid s?k 6) writes that although
it is preferable to make Hamotzi immediately after netilas yadayim, if a
significant break did occur, it is not necessary to wash again. However,
Igeros Moshe (OC 2:48) notes that speaking between washing and Hamotzi is a
more significant hefsek and would necessitate netilas yadayim and a new
bracha (unless what was spoken related to the meal).

Regarding our original question, although in normal circumstances, it is
preferable not to delay reciting Hamotzi, nonetheless, the importance of
reciting Hamotzi on a whole loaf (which adds honor to the bracha) is an
overriding consideration and takes precedence. (See Mishnah Berurah 167:4
and 27).

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I am learning the AH"S hilchot tzedaka and am struck by the poverty in the
communities he relates to. This reminded me of imi morati ZL""HH relating
her father's description of the grinding poverty in the shtetl. (lots of
sociological history in halacha). Of particular interest was his
description of how the universal practice of a single communal kupat
tzedaka came to an end. Sometimes reality trumps "halacha" and maybe the
mimetic tradition fails to restart in cases it should. Thoughts?

KT
Joel Rich

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The following is from the article The Legacy of RSRH, ZT"L that appears in the Sefer Selected Writings by Rav Shimon Schwab, ZT"L.

Rav Hirsch is usually accepted as the exponent of the
Torah im Derech Eretz philosophy. This principle is
explained by his grandson, Dr. Isaac Breuer, as follows:
"He was strictly opposed to compromise or
reconciliation, or even a synthesis: he demanded full and
uncompromising rulership of the Torah. The Torah cannot
endure co-rulership, far less tolerate it. As a true
revolutionary he seized the liberalistic individual, the
liberalistic, humanitarian ideal, liberalistic capitalism, and
the human intellect, celebrating orgies in the liberalistic
science, and dragged them as "circumstances", in the
narrowest sense of the word, to the flaming fire of the Torah
to be purified or, if need be, to be consumed. As a true
revolutionary he solved the unbearable tension between the
Torah and the new era which had dawned over the Jews of
Western Europe. He invaded the new era with the weapons
of the Torah, analyzed and dissected it down to its last
ingredients, and then shaped and reformed it until it could
be placed at the feet of the Torah, as new nourishment for
the Divine fire. The proclamation of the rulership of the
Torah over the new era was the historic achievement of
Hirsch's life for his own contemporaries." -- ("Hirsch as a
Guide to Jewish History'' in Fundamentals of Judaism,
published by Feldheim, 1949.) Unfortunately, the principle
of Torah im Derech Eretz is grossly misunderstood by our
contemporary Jewish orthodoxy. It does not mean that one
who is a full-fledged citizen of hedonistic America and at
the same time keeps the laws of the Torah, is a follower of
Torah im Derech Eretz. Not to violate the laws of the Torah
certainly deserves praise and recognition but it is not an
embodiment of the Hirschian philosophy.

Likewise, an academy dedicated to the study of science
and philosophy, not in order to serve the understanding of
Torah or to further the aims of the Torah but as the
independent search by the human intellect to understand
and control the world around -- even when added to a
department of profound and very scholarly Torah studies -this
is not an outgrowth of the Torah im Derech Eretz
Weltanschauung of Samson Raphael Hirsch.

Also, a secular university in Israel, albeit under
skullcap auspices, complete with Judaic studies, is
extremely remote from a Torah im Derech Eretz school
even if it has established a "Samson Raphael Hirsch chair"
as part of its academic set-up, something which almost
borders on blasphemy.

The Orthodox professional who is not regularly
"koveah ittim batorah", or otherwise lacks in the
performance of mitzvohs, or who is immodest in dress or
behavior, is not a follower of Samson Raphael Hirsch. From
all of Hirsch's prolific writings, it becomes evident that his
main concern was to establish the majesty of the Divine
Word and the role of the Divine Will as revealed in the
Torah, to dominate all the highways and by-ways of
mundane life.

Those who abuse Torah im Derech Eretz as a "hetter" to
lead a life of easygoing and lenient "Yiddishkeit" or those
who consider the Hirschian idea as a compromise between
the right and the left in Jewish thinking have distorted the
meaning of the principle as laid down in the Mishne, Avos,
Perek 2, 2: "Beautiful is the study of Torah combined with
Derech Eretz for the effort to attain both makes one forget
to commit sins". The Torah is not a mere branch of human
knowledge, one discipline amongst many others, but rather
must the Torah dominate all secular knowledge and all
worldly activities. Equally so, the community of Israel, Klal
Yisroel, as well as all Kd1il!os and organized communities,
be they local or international -- which are all segments of
Klal Yisroel -- are not supposed to be mere branches of a
neutral Israel but are to be totally independent. The Torah
community is not beholden to any non-Torah community
and it. does not even recognize its authenticity. This is the
essence of the Hirschian Austritt (separation) ideology. The
so ailed "Austritt" is the militant vigilance of the
conscientious Jew defending the Torah community against
all encroachments from the non-Torah powers that be. The
"AustrittL" and Torah im Derech Eretz go hand in hand, they
form "one package", so to speak, and both these aspects of
Hirschian thought have one aim: the total domination of
Torah over all thinking and actions of individual and
national life.

He who separates the rule of the Torah over all facets of
the communal  life of Kial Yisroel from the rule of the Torah
over all human knowledge, in short, he who separates the
"Austritt" from Torah im Derech Eretz, renders a disservice
to both.

Furthermore, the leit-motif is neither Torah and
Derech Eretz nor Torah U'Madoh -- the two are not equal
partners nor must it be twisted around into Derech Eretz
plus Torah. It is neither a synthesis of Torah with
assimilation nor a bloodless orthopraxy blended with
earthbound Americanism.

It. is none of these.

YL

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On Wed, Mar 03, 2021 at 01:24:19PM +0000, Prof. L. Levine via Avodah wrote:
> From today's OU Kosher Halacha Yomis

>> Q. Next to the washing station at a simcha hall there are cut up
>> pieces of pita. At my table there is a whole roll....

>> A. ... Regarding our original question, although in normal
>> circumstances, it is preferable not to delay reciting Hamotzi,
>> nonetheless, the importance of reciting Hamotzi on a whole loaf (which
>> adds honor to the bracha) is an overriding consideration and takes
>> precedence. (See Mishnah Berurah 167:4 and 27).

Being a balebus, the balebatishe answer seems more obvious to me: Go to
the table you are seated at, take a roll with you to the washing station,
wash and make hamotzi on a whole roll.

That said, I have noticed many kosher caterers use mini rolls at the
washing station. I had assumed, to avoid this question.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 Life isn't about finding yourself
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   Life is about creating yourself.
Author: Widen Your Tent                   - Bernard Shaw
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF

Furthermore, the leit-motif is neither Torah and
Derech Eretz nor Torah U'Madoh -- the two are not equal
partners nor must it be twisted around into Derech Eretz
plus Torah. It is neither a synthesis of Torah with
assimilation nor a bloodless orthopraxy blended with
earthbound Americanism.
----------------------------------
Interesting - You had me till here -I read through the whole piece
carefully and it's pretty much what I heard from my rebbeim (and some
secular studies teachers)at MTA - not always carried out but certainly the
aspiration (and what I've tried to live up to)
KT
Joel Rich

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