Avodah Mailing List

Volume 39: Number 9

Sun, 31 Jan 2021

• 1. Re: May one add matzah meal or pieces of bread to a (Micha Berger)
• 2. Re: Tu'bishvat is the Rosh Hashanah (new year) for trees. What does this mean? (Alexander Seinfeld)
• 3. Re: Tu?bishvat is the Rosh Hashanah (new year) for trees. What does this mean? (Alexander Seinfeld)
• 4. Re: Succession Planning? (Rich, Joel)
• 5. Re: Tu'bishvat is the Rosh Hashanah (new year) for trees. What does this mean? (Zev Sero)
• 6. Sh'foch Chamas'cha (Akiva Miller)

On Wed, Jan 27, 2021 at 07:36:43PM -0500, David Riceman via Avodah wrote:
>>> 1. It is a din. In other words the halacha states that cooking in a kli
>>> sheini is not called cooking...

>> Brisk.

>>> 2. It is a metzius, the gemara is telling us an empirical fact, that in
>>> general a kli sheini doesn't cook.

>> Telzh.

> Or 3: it is a convention. Bishul on Shabbos is how people normally cook
> (IIRC RMF suggests this in one of his tshuvos)...

I would think that's a metzi'us question, but defining the issur in terms
of derekh bishul rather than bishul. That certainly fits the gemara's
language, except for the one-word name of the melakhah.

In terms of Brisk vs Telzh.... It would still fit under Telzh, in that
it's explaining halakhah in terms of realia. Brisk would stop all
explanations at halachic categories. More like the "halakhah states
... is not called ..." of number 1.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 Imagine waking up tomorrow
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   with only the things
Author: Widen Your Tent      we thanked Hashem for today!
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF

Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2021 23:01:57 -0500
From: Zev Sero <z...@sero.name>
> As a matter of metzius, are there any fruits that, in Eretz Yisrael's
> climate, reach onas hama'asros by the middle of Shevat, so that a hard
> date is required to separate them?

> I would have thought the logical place to separate the years would be in
> mid-winter when there are no fruit growing anyway, so that it doesn't
> matter whether the exact date is the 1st or the 15th....

The Gemara (Rosh Hashanah 14ab) tells of R' Akiva picking an Esrog at that
time and having a suffik about it's maaser.

Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2021 23:01:57 -0500
From: Zev Sero <z...@sero.name>
> As a matter of metzius, are there any fruits that, in Eretz Yisrael's
> climate, reach onas hama'asros by the middle of Shevat, so that a hard
> date is required to separate them?

> I would have thought the logical place to separate the years would be in
> mid-winter when there are no fruit growing anyway, so that it doesn't
> matter whether the exact date is the 1st or the 15th....

The Gemara (Rosh Hashanah 14ab) tells of R' Akiva picking an Esrog at that
time and having a suffik about it's maaser.

<<< Why didn?t Yeshoshua ask HKB?H (or do so himself) to appoint a successor as his teacher Moshe Rabbeinu had done? >>>

Yes, this is sometimes not possible, as when there's already a significant
minority who are dissatisfied with the current leader. And other times,
there are too many qualified candidates to choose from. But all too often,
the leader doesn't even attempt to name a successor, apparently content to
let his followers fight it out among themselves when he's gone.
---------------------------------
Yes and one could posit a number of reasons-some cognitive and some not. 
That?s what I wonder about.  Behavioral psychology offers some reasons for
mere mortals but?.
KT
Joel Rich
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On 28/1/21 5:58 pm, Alexander Seinfeld via Avodah wrote:
> Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2021 23:01:57 -0500
> From: Zev Sero <z...@sero.name>
>> As a matter of metzius, are there any fruits that, in Eretz Yisrael's
>> climate, reach onas hama'asros by the middle of Shevat, so that a hard
>> date is required to separate them?
> 
>> I would have thought the logical place to separate the years would be in
>> mid-winter when there are no fruit growing anyway, so that it doesn't
>> matter whether the exact date is the 1st or the 15th....
> 
> The Gemara (Rosh Hashanah 14ab) tells of R' Akiva picking an Esrog at that
> time and having a suffik about it's maaser.

Yes, but esrogim are different because they stay on the tree all year, 
and are counted according to the year in which they are picked.  That 
rules does not apply to any other fruit.


[Email #2. -micha

On 28/1/21 1:18 pm, Micha Berger via Avodah [forwaded from chabad.org]:
>    The first to
>      mention this custom (although it seems to have already existed in
>      his day) was Rabbi Yissachar ben Mordecai ibn Susan (fl. 1539-1572)
>      in his work Tikun Yissachar.

See the Seforim blog post that RYL linked to, which cites earlier 
sources that Rabbi Shurpin's sources were unaware of.

-- 
Zev Sero            Wishing everyone a *healthy* and happy 5781
z...@sero.name       "May this year and its curses end
                      May a new year and its blessings begin"

.
Please note the text of Tehillim 79-6, which appears in the Haggada as the
very first thing we say after benching.

???????? ????????? ??? ????????? ?????? ??? ??????????? ?????? ??????????
?????? ??????????? ??? ????????.

It is composed of two similar phrases, the first of which contains the
preposition "el" and the second uses the preposition "al". And yet, despite
this contrast, the great majority of English Tehilims and Haggadas
translate both of them as "upon".

The main exception is The Psalms, with the perush of Rav RSR Hirsch. He is
emphatic that "el" must be translated as "toward" and not as ?upon?. He
explains that the first half refers to the nations who have merely failed
to recognize God, and we pray for His anger to go *toward* them, that they
might come to know and understand. It is only in the second half, which
refers to the evil kingdoms who have tried to destroy us, that we pray for
God's anger to pour down *upon* them.

Personally, I don't know how he sees such a distinction between those who
"do not know You" and those who "do not call on your name". To me, both can
refer to people who are simply ignorant of Hashem, or perhaps both can
refer to people who actively deny Hashem. But I don't see how one group is
more or less evil than the other. Perhaps he gets it by contrasting
"nations" and "kingdoms". If anyone can offer ideas, I'd appreciate it.

In any case, it seems clear to me that the author of this Tehillim strove
to distinguish between "el" and "al", and those who recite the Haggada in
English might want to take note of this.

Hat tip to ArtScroll's Interlinear Tehillim, from which I've been reciting
Tehillim recently. True to the advertising, I have found it very helpful in
understanding what I'm saying. It really does take no more than a glance to
see what the more difficult words mean. A few days ago, I wasn't even
paying much attention to the English - not on a conscious level at least!
But my peripheral vision was surprised to see "el" being translated as
"upon", and it jarred me into further research.

I will also note that although the preposition "el" is best translated as
"to" or "towards" in the vast majority of cases, there are indeed some
exceptions, as noted by Rashi on Bereshis 20:2. It is possible that some
might consider Tehillim 79:6 to be in that category, but in my view, the
contrast between "el" and "al" makes that very unlikely.

Akiva Miller
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