Avodah Mailing List

Volume 38: Number 104

Thu, 03 Dec 2020

• 1. Re: Is it permissible to eat while walking outside through a marketplace? (Prof. Levine)
• 2. Eating Outside, Restricted Foods (Prof. L. Levine)
• 3. Re: local custom (Akiva Miller)
• 4. Re: local custom (Rich, Joel)
• 5. Re: Publicizing a Chillul Hashem (Harry Maryles)

At 02:05 PM 12/1/2020, Micha Berger wrote:
>This raises a recurring question WRT chilul hasheim and the behavior of
>talmidei chakhamim.
>
>Nowadays, when shomerei Torah umitzvos are a minority, anyone dressed
>identifiably like an Orthodox Jew is seen as representing Torah. Much
>the way talmidei chakhamim were seen by the masses in the classical
>period. An Orthodox-dressed Jew who goes out looking like a shlump
>creates pretty much the same impression today that a TC who went out
>with dirty clothes did then.
>
>So, how many of the laws of how a TC should behave and should present
>himself apply to all of us?

I posted a somewhat long piece from Rav Schwab's These and Those 
about the requirements of being a Torah scholar.

See 
https://web.stevens.edu/golem/llevine/rsrh/these_and_those.pdf  for 
all of These and Those.

See pages 13 and 14 and then ask yourself how many people are Torah 
scholars according to these requirements.

I am often called "rabbi"  although the only semicha I have received 
was given to me many years ago from the Meal Mart that used to be on 
Ave J in Flatbush, and the recent semicha I received from the 
Flatbush Jewish Journal! >:-} Nonetheless,  I think that it is 
crucial that people who look like observant Jews behave, act and l 
dress as though the world was judging Judaism by watching them.

YL

From today's OU Kosher Halacha Yomis


Q. As noted, the Gemara (Kidushin 40b) states that those who eat in the marketplace are disqualified from testifying in court. Which foods are restricted?

A. The Beis Yosef( Choshen Mishpat 34) cites the opinion of Rabbeinu Tam
that the restriction of eating in a market is limited to achilas keva (a
bread-meal), but he does not accept this leniency. According to the Beis
Yosef all types of foods are included. However, the Aruch Hashulchan (CM
34:18) rules like Rabbeinu Tam. The Aruch Hashulchan also accepts the
lenient opinion of the Bach, that the prohibition of eating is applicable
only if done on a regular basis, but not when done on occasion. However,
the Bach writes that a talmid chacham should not walk and eat outside. The
Bach writes that a talmid chacham should also not drink while walking
outside in public.

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.
R' Joel Rich asked:

> When the mishna tells us that we need to keep local custom (makom
> shenahagu... Al yishaneh adam mpnei hamachloket) it gives the
> reason "mpnei machloket" (avoid discord?). What specific type
> actions/statements were Chazal concerned about in terms of discord?

I don't have an answer, but I do have a similar question, and perhaps an
answer might be found by comparing them.

There are certain situations where we are told to act in a unified manner
because of "lo tisgodedu". Is this the same thing as "mpnei machloket" or
is it something different?

Regarding which days of the Sefira period are of an aveilus nature, Rama
493:3 says that because of "lo tisgodedu", each locale should follow one
minhag or the other.

The Dirshu Mishne Brura, note #33 on the above, points out something very
relevant: Shulchan Aruch Harav 493:7 (near the end) says that if many
people of the area follow one minhag, and many people of the area follow
the other minhag, and so they are not makpid on each other, so there is no
fear of machlokes -- even so, "lo tisgodedu" still applies.

Interestingly, regarding a place which has mixed minhagim about tefillin on
Chol Hamoed, Mishne Brura 31:8 cites both machlokes (near the beginning)
and lo tisgodedu (near the end).

I recently came upon another situation where I can't imagine any machlokes
arising, yet the halacha is worried about lo tisgodedu: Beis Yosef (OC 114,
near the beginning of "Umah shekasav v'itmar b'Yerushalmi") asks why Mashiv
Haruach starts and stops at Musaf on Yom Tov, why not follow the calendar
and switch at Maariv the night before? His answer is that "Not everyone is
in shul in the evening, and it will turn out that this one says it and that
one doesn't say it, and it will be agudos agudos." (I'd love to know why
this doesn't apply to any of the other changes in the siddur, and if anyone
wants to start a new thread about that, I'd appreciate it.)

To return to RJR's question, it seems from the Shulchan Aruch Harav that
"mpnei machloket" is exactly what it sounds like. If everyone is accepting
of the differences, then "mpnei machloket" is not a problem (although "lo
tisgodedu" might still apply). But if the situation is such that machloket
could arise, that's "mpnei machloket".

Akiva Miller
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To return to RJR's question, it seems from the Shulchan Aruch Harav that
"mpnei machloket" is exactly what it sounds like. If everyone is accepting
of the differences, then "mpnei machloket" is not a problem (although "lo
tisgodedu" might still apply). But if the situation is such that machloket
could arise, that's "mpnei machloket".
-------------------------------------
Which raises the question does/should this vary by community and time?
KT
Joel Rich
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On Dec 2, 2020, at 8:50 PM, Akiva Miller via Avodah <avo...@lists.aishdas.org> wrote:
> I'm currently discussing a specific event on Areivim, and this is the
> place to ask my question in general terms:

> If someone commits a public Chillul Hashem, of course we must protest
> it to the onlookers, to impress upon them how awful and unacceptable
> such behavior is. I think Pinchas is an adequate demonstration of this.

> My question concerns the people who DON'T know about the event. Is it
> a chiyuv / mitzva / good idea to inform them about this, so that we can
> tell them how awful it was and that they should not do such things?

There are several issues to consider. For one thing if someone commits a
CH, it rarely stays confined to the people who witnessed it. To keep it
confined only to the people who you know saw it risks giving a message to
others that might have also seen it that Judaism is OK with what happened.

And if it becomes known due to media publicity, then in my view it
must be protested in kind. The more people that hear your condemnation
the less of a risk that bad behavior will be seen as acceptable to us,
thus contributing to the CH.

Now if you are absolutely certain that nobody saw it, (which I?m not
entirely sure is even possible) then publicizing it has no Tachlis. But
that does not let you off the hook. You still have to give hochacha to
person who did it to prevent him from doing it again. The one thing you
can never do in the face of a CH is to ignore it.

My two cents.

HM
Sent from my iPhone, Shirley.



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