Avodah Mailing List

Volume 38: Number 36

Sun, 17 May 2020

• 1. Re: Ultra-Orthodox suffering in COVID-19 pandemic due to sins of community (Micha Berger)
• 2. Re: Street Minyanim (Marty Bluke)
• 3. Re: How To Religiously Respond to the Pandemic (Toby Katz)
• 4. Re: Funeral of a married Bas Kohen (Toby Katz)
• 5. Simchas Torah, post-covid19 (Akiva Miller)
• 6. Re: Simchas Torah, post-covid19 (Micha Berger)
• 7. How To Religiously Respond to the Pandemic (Micha Berger)
• 8. Re: Report: Orthodox Weddings to Resume with "Approved Model" in New Jersey: Rabbi Aaron Kotler (Chana Luntz)
• 9. Re: Simchas Torah, post-covid19 (Zev Sero)

On Tue, May 12, 2020 at 06:12:33AM -0400, Akiva Miller via Avodah wrote:
> When I first wrote those words, "whether there might be other group(s)
> too", I was referring to a middle ground between "charedim" and "tinok
> shenishbu"...
> 
> And then it occurred to me that maybe RGE really does see only two groups.
> But if so, it is quite presumptuous of us to presume where HE would place
> the line between those groups, i.e., which of the groups he'd put US in.

Talmidim of his commented on FB.

RGE most likely was just asking his audience to look at their own sins,
and not "theirs". The chilonim are just the usual portrayal of sinners
-- and RGE is saying Hashem doesn't necessarily view them as such. Our
sinners are sinners; they are TnS. So now, what have WE been doing wrong.

Given that explanation by people who know what kinds of things RGE says:

DL falls through the cracks because they are neither the usual image of
"those sinners" nor the "us" of his audience.

And it is quite likely he sees DL as a point on the spectrum. He could
even see some DL as equally holy as many in his audience, and that
snippet of video would still sound the same.

:-)BBii!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 Today is the 36th day, which is
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   5 weeks and 1 day in/toward the omer.
Author: Widen Your Tent      Chesed sheb'Yesod: What is the kindness in
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF               being a stable and reliable partner?

R' Zev Sero asked about the bima which is 10 tefachim high.

The Beis Yosef in Siman 55 sif 9 quotes the Mahari Abuhav and the Rashba
who address this issue and say that since the bima is there for the use of
the shul it is batel to the shul even if it has high walls.

The Aruch Hashulchan siman 55 sif 24 also has this sevara that since its
use is solely for the shul it is considered one makom with the shul and
everyone is mitztaref.

In Avodah Digest, Vol 38, Issue 30 dated 5/3/2020:


From: Alexander Seinfeld <seinf...@daasbooks.com>


>>.....someone whoexercises vigorously every day, eats leafy green
>>vegetables every day, takesvitamin-D supplements and maintains a
>>healthy BMI will have a strongerimmune system than someone who
>>lacks any of the above. The death rate amongthe obese, sedentary,
>>smokers etc is far, far higher than the thin, activenon-smokers....


Does it not appear that if every Yid were caring for his healthappropriately, the Covid-19 death rate would be very low if not zero?<<



Alexander Seinfeld





>>>>>
I heard on the radio today that here in Florida over 30% of the corona
deaths have been among people over the age of 85, mostly in long-term
healthcare facilities.? About 60% of the deaths have been among people over
the age of 65 (including the afore-mentioned over-85 group).? People who
live to a ripe old age are generally those who did take care of their
health, but that didn't keep them safe from this virus once they reached
old age.? Conversely, being young is statistically a very good protection
even if you eat cake instead of spinach.
We have quite a few elderly Yidden around, Baruch Hashem.? The only way the
Covid-19 death rate would be zero would be if Yidden died young of other
causes and refrained from reaching old age.

--Toby Katzt6...@aol.com
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 In Avodah Digest, Vol 38, Issue 32 dated 5/11/2020


From: Akiva Miller <akivagmil...@gmail.com>

.A kohen is allowed to attend the funeral of his sister, but only so long
asshe is unmarried....I alwayspresumed that this was an indication of how
women leave their father'sfamily to join with their husband's.

....Her father is still allowed to be m'tamei himself, even though he hasmarried her off.
Are any explanations offered for this difference? Is it simply an exampleof
the brother-sister bond being weaker than the parent-child bond? Or
issomething else at work here?
Akiva Miller


>>>>
There are other halachos that seem to indicate a father-daughter bond is
stronger and more permanent than a brother-sister bond.? For instance, a
father can kiss his daughter but a brother can't kiss and hug a sister who
is married.? A father can live with his daughter but a brother and sister
can't live together for more than thirty days (I think).

--Toby Katzt6...@aol.com
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A few days ago, I realized that when this Shabbos passes, we will have
missed hearing the Entire Chumash Vayikra in shul. And there are no
guarantees on how much we'll hear of Chumash Bamidbar. :-(

For the purposes of this thread, let's presume that we are back in shul by
Simchas Torah - because if we're not, then the question is moot.

I've seen various views on what to do about all the parshios that we're
missing, and it seems that some shuls will try to make them all up. But
others will not, and my question will apply to them. I am nowhere big
enough to weigh in on the merits of each view. But I will repeat what has
been said many times on these pages: In an "oness" situation, one does not
get punished for failure to do the mitzvah, but he also misses the benefits
it could have provided. (Dissenting views can start a separate thread.)

What will Simchas Torah be like this year? Even if we can be socially close
like in yesteryear, *what* will we celebrate? Usually we celebrate the
completion of learning the entire Torah. If we leave some parshios unread,
what will be the significance of the day?

Of course, I don't mean to cast any questions on the Chag itself, which we
were celebrating for millenia prior to the newfangled idea of the yearly
parsha cycle. I'm just wondering if/how we might have to adjust our minds
and practices.

The vav of Gachon (Vayikra 11:42, Parshas Shmini) is considered the middle
letter of the Torah.
Darosh Darash (Vayikra 10:16, also in Shmini) are considered the middle
words of the Torah.
And Vayikra 13:13, in Parshas Tazria, is considered the middle pasuk of the
Torah.

Most shuls closed their doors about a month before reaching any of these
points. In other words, our Shabbos morning laining has thus far read much
less than one-half of the Torah, no matter how you want to calculate it. If
the shuls reopen in mid-to-late Elul - and certainly if they open in
Tishrei - then Simchas Torah will arrive with us having read less than half
of the Torah. Something to think about.

Akiva Miller
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On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 03:52:20PM -0400, Akiva Miller via Avodah wrote:
> What will Simchas Torah be like this year? Even if we can be socially close
> like in yesteryear, *what* will we celebrate? Usually we celebrate the
> completion of learning the entire Torah. If we leave some parshios unread,
> what will be the significance of the day?

RGS and I discussed this.

He said it's a siyum on being ma'avir sedra either way.

I wonder about all the heterim we invoke to have various minhagim on
Simchas Torah. Like reading the Torah at night, in order to justify
taking them out to dance with at night.

Or the absurd number of aliyos, requiring repeating the leining. (Less
odd for Sepharadim.)

Or dancing with sifrei Torah to begin with.

And I too don't mean to cast aspersions on a regular ST.

But....

Is there enough justification left for such dachuq practices?

I wasn't happy with RGS's answer because the whole point is that we're
witnessing the end of what we made a siyum on. Ought we permit going
through such lengths to justify use of sifrei Torah to make a siyum
for learning we did out of chumashim?

Meanwhile, a third person suggested: Yes there is another factor to push
for heter this coming Shemini Atzeres -- the tzibbur needs this Simchas
Torah more than most. For straight psychological terms. And if we don't
firmly return to normal, how many people will normalize things they have
been doing all this time and continue in the post she'as hadechaq period.

Kind of like arguing that a normal ST this year would help shul attendance
in the long run. Or going back to not selling "real chameitz" if that's
what you hold.

I could see it. People forget how quickly something can become ancient
history. So it might depend on how soon after the resumption of minyanim
Simcas Torah will be. OTOH, I expect by then I'll still be wearing my
Shabbos, work and just-around-the-neighborhood face masks. So... we'll
see.

:-)BBii!
-Micha

Cc: RGS, so that if I misrepresented what he said, or he wants to answer
my question on it, he can.

-- 
Micha Berger                 Today is the 36th day, which is
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   5 weeks and 1 day in/toward the omer.
Author: Widen Your Tent      Chesed sheb'Yesod: What is the kindness in
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF               being a stable and reliable partner?

Another essay on how to respond to CoVID-19 I felt motivated to share.

-micha

Rabbi Mayer Twersky
TorahWeb

BITACHON AND INITIATIVE

We approach this essay, with Hashem's help, with the goal of helping
identify the role of bitachon (faith and trust in God) in our current
situation (and, to a degree, by extension, in avodas Hashem (service
of God) in general). It is self-evident that bitachon is a core,
fundamental value.

> ...as Yirmiyahu emphasized, and pronounced '(Cursed is the man who
> trusts in mankind) and establishes flesh as his arm (17:5).' David, in
> all his praises, latched on to it 'In God, I trusted' (Tehilim 26:1);
> 'Yisra'el, trust in God' (Tehilim 115:9). Furthermore, Yeshayahu said
> 'Trust in God evermore' (Yeshayahu 26:4)" (Meshech Chochmah, Parshas
> Eikev).

It is also true, however, that Hashem has demarcated distinct, discrete
domains in His world and in His Torah. Any facet of His Torah -- even
one which is most holy, lofty and significant -- must be situated in
it's rightful domain without infringing upon other domains. In that
vein: a crucial principle regarding the role of bitachon is that
bitachon in no way mitigates our obligations in other religious
domains. If we are charged with mitzvos, then there is no room to
defer our duties out of a sense of bitachon. "Throw your burden upon
God (Tehilim 55:23)" -- but not your mitzvos, your obligations! 

When the mitzvah of u'sh'mor nafshecha me'od devolves upon us, we
are forbidden to substitute bitachon for the appropriate precautions
and preventive measures. There can be no segulah, no talismanic
stratagem, which would exempt us from this mitzvah, or any other.
Functionally, bitachon works in tandem with, but not in any degree as
a substitute for, all appropriate precautions and preventive measures. 

To further drive home this critical principle, we would do well to
consider a selection of my grandfather, Rav Soloveitchik's zt"l
forceful, authoritative treatment of this dynamic in his essay, The
Lonely Man of Faith[1]:

> The conquest of disease is the sacred duty ... and he must not shirk
> it ... the Halakhah remained steadfast in its loyalty to scientific
> medicine. It has never ceased to emphasize the duty of the sick person to
> consult a competent physician. The statement quoted in both the Tur and
> Karo's Shulchan Aruch "And if he refrains [from consulting a physician],
> it is as if he shed his own blood," which can be traced indirectly to a
> Talmudic passage, is a cornerstone of Halakhic thinking. Vide Yoma 82a,
> 82b, 83a; Kiddushin 82a; Rashi sub ["tov"]; Bava Kamma 85a, Tosafot sub
> ["shenitnah"]; Tur Yoreh Deah 336; Bayit- Chadash sub ["tniya"]. See
> also Pesachim 56a, Rashi and Maimonides' Commentary.

> The doctrine of faith in God's charity [bitachon] is not to be equated with
> the folly of the mystical doctrine of quietism, which in its extreme form
> exempts man from his duty of attending to his own needs and lets him wait
> in "holy" idleness and indifference for God's intervention. This kind of
> repose is wholly contrary to the repose which the Halakhah recommends:
> the one which follows human effort and remedial action. Man must first
> use his own skill and try to help himself as much as possible. Then,
> and only then, man may find repose and quietude in God and be confident
> that his effort and action will be crowned with success. The initiative,
> says the Halakhah, belongs to man; the successful realization, to God.

> Certainly, "except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain
> that build it," but if those who labor stop building, there will be no
> house. The Lord wants man to undertake the task which He, in His infinite
> grace, completes.

In the above citation, the Rav focused specifically on medicine; his
words are even more relevant to our topic at hand, the mitzvah of
u'sh'mor nafshecha me'od. Even those solitary opinions (which were
unequivocally rejected by normative halacha) that deemed standard
medical care as optional perforce agree that the Torah's prescription of
u'sh'mor nafshecha me'od, qua mitzvah, obligates us to take all
necessary precautions and preventive measures in the face of prospective
danger. 

Rabbeinu Yonah[2], commenting on the pesukim in Mishlei
(21:30-31) "There is neither wisdom nor understanding nor counsel
against the Lord. A steed is prepared for a day of battle, but the
victory is the Lord's[3]," writes:

> Let us say, then, regarding "there is neither wisdom nor understanding
> nor counsel against the Lord," that neither wisdom, understanding,
> or counsel have the force to nullify [Divine] edicts, much as it says
> "except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it."

> When it says (Mishlei 21:22) that a wise man "brought down the
> stronghold in which it trusts," it means to say that victory and
> triumph are brought about [but not effected] through wisdom. It is
> similarly brought about through feats of strength and waging war... 

> What it means by saying "a steed is prepared for a day of battle [,
> but the victory is the Lord's]," is that people are obligated to watch
> out for themselves, to prepare steeds and weapons, for a time of war,
> and Hashem Yisbarach will save and pity on those whom He chooses to
> pity (see Shemos 33:19).

Let us both consider and comply with Rabbeinu Yonah's exhortation
"that people are obligated to watch out for themselves... and Hashem
Yisbarach will save and pity on those whom He chooses to pity." Would
that we act accordingly!

May it be Hashem's will that our lot be with those who are saved and
pitied.
-------------------------



[2] Cited by HaGaon Rav Shmuel Hominer zt"l in Mitzvas HaBitachon

[3] Translations of Mishlei are taken from Rabbi AJ Rosenberg's edition
(Judaica Press)

I wrote: 

> it feels intrinsically wrong, at least to me, to be carefully avoiding
> weddings during sefira due to a plague that occurred nearly two thousand
> years ago, and yet not be prepared to defer such weddings due to our very
> own plague, right here and now.

And EMT replied:

<<     I feel that it misses the point of the s'fira prohibitions to
attribute them to "a plague that occurred nearly two thousand years ago."
The commemoration was not decreed because of the loss of lives during the
plague; it was because of the major diminution of Torah knowledge which
resulted from it. It was not because there were deaths, but because of who
died and because of the effect on klal Yisraeil of their deaths.>>

So you are saying that we would still have had these prohibitions if there
hadn't been deaths, just that all of these talmidim had been struck by
amnesia during yamei sefira, forgetting all their learning?

But if losing Torah learning is a trigger for banning weddings, why don't we
ban wedding on zayin Adar and following (ie the mourning period for Moshe
Rabbanu)?  After all, that is when the most significant loss of Torah
learning in our history occurred, after Moshe Rabbanu died, three thousand
halachos were forgotten (see Temura 16a).  And unlike the case with Rabbi
Akiva's students, where Rabbi Akiva started all over again with new students
and there is no suggestion that the loss of Torah was permanent, with Moshe
Rabbanu it would appear, despite some reconstruction by Osniel ben Knaz, the
lost halachos remained forever lost.

> Hence, there can be no comparison to today's tragedy, which thus far, and
halevai
>veiter, does not have that negative effect.

Well not in our  communities, which in some ways are learning more Torah by
Zoom than they ever have IRL.  But in the community in which this particular
attempt to start weddings was announced, Zoom and such like, being internet
based, remain prohibited.  I can't speak for the effect of that on the Torah
learning in Lakewood, but certainly those communities here in England that
have continued to ban the internet, and have merely loosened their
prohibition on kids having "brick" phones, so they can have telephone
conference calls from school, have significantly diminished the amount of
Torah being learnt by the kids (and adults) in their communities.  Because
even if Tatte can learn and teach his kids, trying to do so at the level of
every one of his kids simultaneously in relatively small accommodation, not
to mention keep up his own learning without access to the range of sefarim
of a beis medrish, is quite a challenge, to say the least.   The government
here is worried that prolonged period out of school is extremely damaging,
and that is with assumed access to the internet.  There is concern that due
to the slide when kids are out of school, they might lose almost a year. The
same is presumably true in spades for Torah learning without the internet.

Note as well that not holding weddings is one of the stipulations of the
Mishna in Ta'anis 12b in circumstances where the 13 fasts for rain have
failed to have an effect, and the people are to be considered "k'bnei adam
hanezufin LaMakom".  That is not a case of loss of Torah learning either.

>EMT

Shavuah tov

Chana

Here's another question: The indvidual obligation of Shmo"s is 
"lehashlim parshiyosav *im hatzibur*.  If the tzibur is not reading the 
parsha, does the individual obligation still apply?


-- 
Zev Sero            Wishing everyone a *healthy* and happy summer
z...@sero.name       Seek Jerusalem's peace; may all who love you prosper


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