Volume 37: Number 83
Sat, 19 Oct 2019
Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
Message: 1
From: Henry Topas
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2019 15:42:41 -0400
Subject: [Avodah] Kaddish Yatom on Yom Kippur
Mo'ed Tov:
I am in a year of aveilut and it occurred to me that on Yom Kippur last
week, following Shacharit, there was no further opportunity for an avel to
say Kaddish during the Mussaf, Mincha or Neila parts of the tefilah. This
would seem to further differentiate Yom Kippur from other days.
Can anyone offer sources, comments or suggestions as to why this structure
has been instituted? Is it different in nuschaot other than Ashkenaz?
Shkoyech and a Git'n Kvitel,
HT
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Message: 2
From: Micha Berger
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2019 17:00:21 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] Sukkah on Shmini Atzeret
On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 09:15:42PM +0000, Mandel, R/Dr Seth responded to
R/Dr Meir Shinar:
>> I also wonder about calling the arukh hashulchan, whom Rav henkin Zt"l
>> said was the accepted book of psak in lita, as a fellow traveler..
> As far as the Arukh haShulhan goes, everyone agrees that he was a great
> talmid chacham. However, everyone who knows his book also knows that
> he tries to find justifications for some things that chasidim do that
> are against established halokho...
Not my experience at all. He does work hard to find justifications for
things that people do -- but among Litvaks, not Chassidim. Well, let me
tone that down, he'll try to find justification for what other qehillos
do. BUT, when it comes to bottom line, it's Litta's mimetic tradition,
not the practices of Chassidim.
On the subject of Litvaks who considered the AhS one of their own:
Add the early RMF, who wrote in vol 1 that the AhS was poseiq acharon,
only to switch to saying so of the MB in a later volume. (My guess is
that when R Moshe saw that lemaaseh the MB was being followed over the Ahs
in nearly all quarters, he stopped holding out.) Also, R' Dovid Lifshitz
and R' S Yaakov Weinberg both told their talmidim to turn to the AhS.
Tir'u baTov!
-Micha
--
Micha Berger Friendship is like stone. A stone has no value,
http://www.aishdas.org/asp but by rubbing one stone against another,
Author: Widen Your Tent sparks of fire emerge.
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF - Rav Mordechai of Lechovitz
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Message: 3
From: Micha Berger
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2019 17:14:43 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] Sukka on Shmini Atzeres?
On Sun, Oct 13, 2019 at 02:01:43PM +0000, Mandel, Seth via Avodah wrote:
> What Rabbi Spitz neglects to note is that every single one of the sources
> that justify not eating in the sukka are chassidim or fellow travelers
...
True. But the Minchas Elazar's validation of the practice is so cute
I just need to share it. (It's been a few years since the last time.)
The gemara writes (47a):
meisiv ha yasvei, berukhi lo mevorkhei
Rav Huna bar Bizna and all the gedolei hador "sitting they would sit,
but the berakhah they didn't bless".
The Muncaczer wonder about the double language. Why wouldn't the gemara
just say "ha yasvei velo mvorkhei"? So he suggests that the gemara is
to be read as bitmiya: "Do you think sitting they would sit when the
berakhah they couldn't bless?!"
As I said, cute. Totally unconvincing to this Litvak, but I admit the
creativity.
Tir'u baTov!
-Micha
--
Micha Berger The cost of a thing is the amount of what I call
http://www.aishdas.org/asp life which is required to be exchanged for it,
Author: Widen Your Tent immediately or in the long run.
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF - Henry David Thoreau
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Message: 4
From: Zev Sero
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2019 10:41:57 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] Kaddish Yatom on Yom Kippur
On 17/10/19 3:42 pm, Henry Topas via Avodah wrote:
> I am in a year of aveilut and it occurred to me that on Yom Kippur last
> week, following Shacharit, there was no further opportunity for an avel
> to say Kaddish during the Mussaf, Mincha or Neila parts of the tefilah.
> This would seem to further differentiate Yom Kippur from other days.
>
> Can anyone offer sources, comments or suggestions as to why this
> structure has been instituted?? Is it different in nuschaot other than
> Ashkenaz?
Davening isn't structured with kaddish opportunities in mind. On the
contrary, kaddish is an afterthought, tacked on to the bits before and
after the main event. Since on Yom Kippur we (at least in principle) go
right through the day there's no need to conclude each tefilla with
ketoret and/or Aleinu, and thus no opportunity for kaddish afterwards.
I davened at a Sefaradi minyan, where things were different. First,
after musaf there was Ketoret/Ledavid Mizmor/Ledavid Ori, followed by a
kaddish (though surprisingly it was not Al Yisrael), and then Alenu
followed by chatzi kaddish. After mincha there was a perek of tehilim
and alenu, each followed by kaddish. There was nothing after ne'ilah,
but there was a kaddish after each of the sifrei torah in the morning.
In addition, as is my custom, I learned Kelim 24 and Mikvaot 7 before
musaf and again before mincha and concluded them after those tefilot,
with Kadish Al Yisrael. I seem to recall there was also something
learned during the 40-minute break before mincha, followed by kaddish Al
Yisrael, but my memory is a bit hazy. (I do remember that mishnayot
Yoma was learned after maariv, followed by kaddish.)
If you had been at an L shul, your kaddish opportunities would have been
as follows: After musaf there would be tehillim and mishnayos; after
mincha there would be Ledavid Ori; and after neilah there would be
Ketores, tehillim, and mishnayos; each followed by kaddish, plus one on
the first sefer torah in the morning.
--
Zev Sero A prosperous and healthy 5780 to all
z...@sero.name Seek Jerusalem's peace; may all who love you prosper
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Message: 5
From: Mandel, Seth
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2019 15:13:10 +0000
Subject: Re: [Avodah] Sukkah on Shmini Atzeret
From: Micha Berger <mi...@aishdas.org>
Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2019 5:00 PM
> Not my experience at all. [AhS] does work hard to find justifications for
> things that people do -- but among Litvaks, not Chassidim. Well, let me
> tone that down, he'll try to find justification for what other qehillos
> do. BUT, when it comes to bottom line, it's Litta's mimetic tradition,
> not the practices of Chassidim.
He works hard to find bases for minhogim of many groups. His defense
of the chasidic customs that violate halokho, however seems to notable,
because he does it for all of the three or four cases that are directly
against all the poskim.
I am not enough of an expert to evaluate whether it is egregiously
different than his defense of other minhogim.
But it is fairly well known that he became a great admirer of the Tzemach
Tzedek after he first met him.
Rabbi Dr. Seth Mandel
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Message: 6
From: Micha
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2019 21:57:01 -0400
Subject: [Avodah] Barukh Dayan haEmes - Rabbanit Shoshana Boublil
I regret having to share the news that Rt Shoshana Boublil has lost her battle against cancer.
The levayah will be tomorrow at 12:30
Bet Olamin haYarqon, Shaar Ge?ulah
Her family will be sitting shiv?ah at her home. The address was sent to Areivim.
I would say more, but I have no idea how the laws of hespedim on ch?m apply to this situation.
-Micha
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