Volume 36: Number 83
Thu, 12 Jul 2018
Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
Message: 1
From: M Cohen
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2018 09:55:39 -0400
Subject: [Avodah] Lev Beit Din Matneh Aleiyhem
RJR.. The Mishna Brurah in Hilchot Beit Knesset often uses the terminology
"Lev Beit Din Matneh Aleiyhem" (see for ex. S"A 154:13:52) to explain why
some usage that logically should not be allowed is allowed anyway. My
general take is that it means society (TBD) has changed its mind (in an
internally non quantifiable manner over time) as to the definition of
"generally accepted" communal rules of the road.
I hear... but certainly the mashmaut of the phrase indicates daas BEIS DIN
is the determining factor (perhaps based on communal standards), not "Lev
hamon am Matneh Aleiyhem.
(this approach leaves open the questions of which beis din, active decision
vs passive, when, etc)
The mishnah zevachim 4:6 uses similar language (tanai beis din) which
clearly means an enactment of beis din
Mordechai Cohen
=======
Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found.
(Email Guard: 9.1.0.2894, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.22240)
http://free.pctools.com/
=======
Go to top.
Message: 2
From: Professor L. Levine
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2018 13:18:46 +0000
Subject: [Avodah] Tisha B'Av This Year
The following is from today's OU Kosher Halacha Yomis
Q. This year Tisha B?Av is nidcheh?it is postponed from Shabbos to Sunday, the Tenth of Av. When do the various prohibitions of the Three Weeks end this year?
A. Normally, all restrictions of the Three Weeks and the Nine Days remain
in place until the tenth of Av at Chatzos (midday) because the Bais
Hamikdash continued to be engulfed in flames on the tenth of Av (Rama OC
558:1). This year, since the ninth of Av falls on Shabbos when we may not
fast, the fast of Tisha B?Av is postponed to Sunday, the tenth of Av.
Sunday evening is the 11th of Av and therefore, the restrictions against
taking haircuts, shaving, doing laundry, bathing, swimming, saying
Shehecheyanu and sewing are lifted immediately at the end of the fast
without waiting until the next day (Mishna Berura 558:4).
Nonetheless, eating meat and drinking wine (which are foods used for
celebrations) are only permitted Monday morning after the fast this year,
but may not be consumed Sunday evening. Since the day was spent in
mourning, it is not proper to resume conduct of simcha (joy) by eating meat
and drinking wine immediately after the fast is over (Rama ibid).
It is questionable whether we can play and listen to music Sunday evening,
this year. Is music, which is used for simcha, treated like meat and wine,
which are restricted at night and not permitted until the morning? Or do we
consider music as less significant, and it is permitted immediately after
the fast, similar to haircuts, laundry and bathing? (See Kitzur Hilchos
Bein HaMetzarim p. 32:3 who prohibits and the sefer Pesach V?Tisha B?Av
B?Shabbos p. 154-155 who permits). Rav Schachter, shlit?a paskened that
when Tisha B?Av is postponed, playing or listening to music is permitted
immediately after the fast ends.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.aishdas.org/pipermail/avodah-aishdas.org/attachments/20180710/79ad6ee5/attachment-0001.html>
Go to top.
Message: 3
From: Saul Mashbaum
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2018 09:58:32 +0300
Subject: [Avodah] a halakhic state
RETurkel wrote:
> According to some poskim in a halakhic state much of the country (police,
> army, hospitals, ports etc) would be run by nonJews to avoid many
> halakhic problems; This would be preferable to technological answers (ie
> Tzomet institute) since these frequently involve some controversial psak.
I once went to a symposium on medicine and halacha at Shaarei Zedek
hospital and heard R. Asher Weiss, one of the greatest experts on the
subject, state definitively that in a hospital framework, the best halachic
solution for activities that must be done on Shabbat, but are not directly
life-saving, is work by a non-Jew. OTOH, I personally heard Rav Yigal
Shafran, another of the most prominent authorities on the subject (and one
of the most outstanding students of R. Tzvi Yehuda Kook), express grave
reservations about this position (implying that technological solutions may
be halachically preferable). (Nevertheless, these two great halachic
authorities work in cooperation in several areas relating to medicine and
halacha.) It looks like this is a halachic question which will not be
resolved decisively in the foreseeable future.
Saul Mashbaum
-- MIME section 1 END --------------------
-- MIME section 2 text/plain --------------------
_______________________________________________
Areivim mailing list
Arei...@lists.aishdas.org
http://lists.aishdas.org/listinfo.cgi/areivim-aishdas.org
-- MIME section 2 END --------------------
-- MIME email END --------------------
Go to top.
Message: 4
From: Eli Turkel
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2018 21:45:55 +0300
Subject: [Avodah] Minchas Eliezer
[Reposted an Areivim discussion of the Satmar Rav's position. -micha]
> The righteous may go there to pray, but whatever is built there is
> destroyed, like the walls of Jericho of yore.
Interesting how RYBS and others make the diametrically opposite argument.
The land that was desolate for centuries has come back to life with the
movement of Jews back to the land. Many bring the example of Gush Katif
which was rescued from the desert by the Israeli settlers and returned to
desert when they left.
AS to the spiritual level I have my doubts about the spirit level of Jews
in the first Temple era. In the second Temple we had Saducees etc and both
Temples lasted over 400 years. Wew have numerous takkanot to increase the
settlement in EY including violating rabbinic shabbat laws. I am not aware
of any restriction that this applies only if the Jewish buyer is on a
sufficiently high spiritual level. Chazal were also concerned about the
average farmer who I assume were not major talmidei chachamim
Go to top.
Message: 5
From: Eli Turkel
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2018 11:50:39 +0300
Subject: [Avodah] a halakhic state
[Another Areivim discussion that really belongs here. -micha]
An interesting question is what would happen if a majority of the state of
Israel were religious but there is a sizable minority of non-religious. The
rule seems to be that if 49% of the representatives are religious they
should be entitled to 49% of the budget for local services. If 51% are
religious then the religious basically get 100% since they can't vote to
give any services to the 49% nonreligious that violate any halacha (so 100%
is a little exaggeration since some services would not violate shabbat etc.=
)
Two recent stories
In kiryat Arba 75% are religious. The local council set up times for
separate and mixed swimming in the municipal pool. The local rabbanim
paskened they the council cannot allow mixed swimming for the chilonim. The
council ignored them and so the rabbis demanded that everyone give up their
membership in the pool. 250 families gave up their membership which meant
the pool was no longer economic and so the pool closed.
Litzman (charedi party) as (under) minister of health is by law in charge
of a committee on abortions. So he delegated his authority to an assistant.
According to some poskim in a halakhic state much of the country (police,
army, hospitals, ports etc) would be run by nonJews to avoid many
halakhic problems; This would be preferable to technological answers (ie
Tzomet institute) since these frequently involve some controversial psak.
This explains the old charedi attack on tzomet
Go to top.
Message: 6
From: Rich, Joel
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2018 19:55:15 +0000
Subject: Re: [Avodah] a halakhic state
It looks like this is a halachic question which will not be
resolved decisively in the foreseeable future.
=====================================
Imho because it is at its core a"hashkafic" issue - was/should a jewish halachic state be self sufficient in all areas.
Kt
Joel rich
THIS MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE USE OF THE
ADDRESSEE. IT MAY CONTAIN PRIVILEGED OR CONFIDENTIAL
INFORMATION THAT IS EXEMPT FROM DISCLOSURE. Dissemination,
distribution or copying of this message by anyone other than the addressee is
strictly prohibited. If you received this message in error, please notify us
immediately by replying: "Received in error" and delete the message.
Thank you.
Go to top.
Message: 7
From: Marty Bluke
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2018 15:44:53 +0300
Subject: [Avodah] How did the Bigdei Kehuna stay clean?
Yesterday's daf (Zevachim 88b) states that the bigdei kehuna cannot be
laundered and that they cannot be worn if dirty. Considering that the
Kohanim spent their day in the Beis Hamikdash bringing korbanos, they must
have gotten dirty from the various avodas with the animals. Which means
that every day all the kohanim would have to wear new begadim. We don't
find anywhere that the bigdei kehuna were one use garments nor do we find
that they had to constantly switch them yet this is what comes out of these
dinim in the gemara. Any suggestions?
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.aishdas.org/pipermail/avodah-aishdas.org/attachments/20180711/dfe15d01/attachment-0001.html>
Go to top.
Message: 8
From: Zev Sero
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2018 09:43:11 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] How did the Bigdei Kehuna stay clean?
On 11/07/18 08:44, Marty Bluke via Avodah wrote:
> Yesterday's daf (Zevachim 88b) states that the bigdei kehuna cannot be
> laundered and that they cannot be worn if dirty. Considering that the
> Kohanim spent their day in the Beis Hamikdash bringing korbanos, they
> must have gotten dirty from the various avodas with the animals. Which
> means that every day all the kohanim would have to wear new begadim. We
> don't find anywhere that the bigdei kehuna were one use garments nor do
> we find that they had to constantly switch them yet this is what comes
> out of these dinim in the gemara. Any suggestions?
Standards for cleanliness would have been different then -- we see that
it is considered k'vod beis hamikdash for the kohanim to be wading
ankle-deep in blood, so presumably blood stains on the begadim would not
preclude reusing them, which would mean that a beged might be worn two
or three times before it became stained with other things and had to be
discarded. But they were certainly changed frequently.
Rambam Hil' Klei Hamikdash 8:4-6:
4. The mitzvah of bigdei kehuna is for them to be new, nice, and long,
like the garments of important people, as it is said: "for honour and
for glory". [...]
5. Any garment of bigdei kehuna that became dirty, it is not to be
bleached or washed, but is left for wicks, and he puts on new ones.
When the kohen gadol's garments wear out they are hidden away, and the
white garments that he uses on Yom Kippur are never reused but are
hidden away in the place where he removes them, as it is said "and he
shall leave them there", and it is forbidden to derive benefit from them.
6. The worn trousers and belts of the ordinary kohanim were turned into
wicks which were used for simchas beis hashoeva, while their tunics were
always used for the menora's wicks.
--
Zev Sero A prosperous and healthy 2018 to all
z...@sero.name Seek Jerusalem's peace; may all who love you prosper
Go to top.
Message: 9
From: Gershon Seif
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2018 13:32:26 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Avodah] Looking for location of a Raavad that RSRH refers to
Hi All,
Would anyone here know where I can find the Raavad that RSRH refers to
here? https://tinyurl.com/ycb2fuxdAs I understand Hirsch's explanation
or the Raavad, we have more to lose by making God too abstract than by
perceiving Him too material. and that's why the Torah takes the risk
and talks about Hashem seeing and Hashem's heart, etc.
1) I assume that's because without this, we won't have any means for
a relationship.
2) Hirsch writes that in that particular series of pesukim (about Hashem's
decision to bring about the mabul) we are taught about man's free will as
well as Hashem unchanging free will, and how the two work with each other.
1 is my assumption. 2 is what Hirsch writes.
TIA,
Gershon Seif
[Email #2. -- micha]
A friend of mine, Rabbi Moshe Katz of CTN, just found it for me.
Raavad Yesodei Hatorah 1:10.
Go to top.
Message: 10
From: Henry Topas
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2018 16:27:17 -0400
Subject: [Avodah] B'not Tzelaphchad
In parshat Pinchas, the daughters of Tzelaphchad bring a taynah to Moshe
Rabeinu who seeks Hashem's counsel before answering.
Hashem issues his "psak" (Kayn Bnot Tzelaphchad dovrot)
In parshat Massei, at the end of sefer Bamdibar, the family of Gilad ben
Machir ben Menashe finds what might appear to be a grey area in the "psak"
and again, the text would suggest that Moshe Rabeinu gets further
instruction from Hashem (Vayitzav Moshe et b'nai Yisrael al pi Hashem).
I have looked at those meforshim I have available to me and do not find
anyone asking why the first psak (in Pinchas) does not already cover the
situation raised in Massei. In short, I cannot recall another situation
where following the first time when Moshe approaches Hashem for guidance,
he is forced to go back a second time.
Can the chevreh help me out here please?
Kol tuv,
Henry Topas
Montreal
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.aishdas.org/pipermail/avodah-aishdas.org/attachments/20180711/9f3cd8e1/attachment-0001.html>
Go to top.
Message: 11
From: Cantor Wolberg
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2018 18:33:10 -0400
Subject: [Avodah] A RAY OF SUNLIGHT ON THE SADDEST MONTH ??? ??? ??
The gematria for Rosh Chodesh is 813.
In the whole of tanach there is only one verse with the gematria of 813. It is B?reishis, Chapter 1, verse 3.
?Vayomer Elohim ohr, vay?hi ohr? ?And God said: Let there be light and there was light.?
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.aishdas.org/pipermail/avodah-aishdas.org/attachments/20180711/8dc32aba/attachment-0001.html>
Go to top.
Message: 12
From: Micha Berger
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2018 12:18:12 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] A RAY OF SUNLIGHT ON THE SADDEST MONTH ??
On Wed, Jul 11, 2018 at 06:33:10PM -0400, Cantor Wolberg via Avodah wrote:
: "Vayomer Elokim yehi ohr, vay'hi ohr" "And God said: Let there be light
: and there was light."
The Besht's take, and I love its truth: And G-d said, "Let there be
light!" and that [the Divine Utterance "Yehi Or"] was light.
G-d didn't speak and *poof* it happened. G-d "Spoke" and the act of "Speech"
is it happening. And as long as there is light, we know G-d is still saying
Yehi Or. Unlike writing, where the author can stop once the word exists.
Creation is continual.
Which aligns with /DBR/ being used both for dibbur and for davar.
Tir'u baTov!
-Micha
--
Micha Berger Man is capable of changing the world for the
mi...@aishdas.org better if possible, and of changing himself for
http://www.aishdas.org the better if necessary.
Fax: (270) 514-1507 - Victor Frankl, Man's search for Meaning
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Avodah mailing list
Avo...@lists.aishdas.org
http://www.aishdas.org/lists/avodah
http://lists.aishdas.org/listinfo.cgi/avodah-aishdas.org
------------------------------
**************************************
Send Avodah mailing list submissions to
avodah@lists.aishdas.org
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://www.aishdas.org/lists/avodah/avodahareivim-membership-agreement/
You can reach the person managing the list at
avodah-owner@lists.aishdas.org
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Avodah digest..."
A list of common acronyms is available at
http://www.aishdas.org/lists/avodah/avodah-acronyms
(They are also visible in the web archive copy of each digest.)