Avodah Mailing List

Volume 36: Number 72

Thu, 21 Jun 2018

• 1. Re: Chizkiyahu's Reforms (Micha Berger)
• 2. Directions on Shabbat (Ben Waxman)
• 3. Re: Directions on Shabbat (Micha Berger)
• 4. Used Metal Pots Bought From a Non-Jew (Professor L. Levine)
• 5. Re: Directions on Shabbat (Zev Sero)
• 6. Re: When Shabbos is Motzaei Rosh Chodesh (Akiva Blum)
• 7. Re: When Shabbos is Motzaei Rosh Chodesh (Rich, Joel)
• 8. Re: When Shabbos is Motzaei Rosh Chodesh (Akiva Miller)
• 9. Rabbi S. R. Hirsch Takes On The Rambam (Professor L. Levine)
• 10. Re: When Shabbos is Motzaei Rosh Chodesh (Akiva Blum)
• 11. The Timeless Rav Hirsch (Professor L. Levine)

On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 09:50:21PM +0200, Ben Waxman via Avodah wrote:
: Makes me wonder why exactly was Hezqiyahu eligible to be Moshiach,
: had he been able to sing Shira. His failure to bring about real
: reform, the disaster that Ashur brought to Eretz Yisrael, his split
: with Yeshiyahu - how does this add up to someone who should have
: been Moshiach? Compared to these issues, his inability to sing Shira
: in the face of disaster was the minor problem, no?

I dunno. Look at David haMelekh. He had what to do teshuvah for as well.
(Yeah, yeah, I know, kol ha'omer David chatah... But let's look at the
navi's presentation of David, if not the historical figure.)

However, he owned his mistakes, did teshuvah. And indeed, excelled at
singing shirah. It seems there is a big difference between someone who
errs, but stays connected to the Borei through it all well enough to
be moved to song, and someone who doesn't.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             A person lives with himself for seventy years,
mi...@aishdas.org        and after it is all over, he still does not
http://www.aishdas.org   know himself.
Fax: (270) 514-1507                            - Rav Yisrael Salanter

There is a question as to whether or not it is permitted for someone to 
give driving directions on Shabbat to a Jew. According to the opinion 
that says it is assur, would it be permitted to do so if the driver was 
in YOSH and without accurate directions he could drive into a hostile 
Arab town?

Ben

On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 09:15:18AM +0200, Ben Waxman via Avodah wrote:
: There is a question as to whether or not it is permitted for someone
: to give driving directions on Shabbat to a Jew. According to the
: opinion that says it is assur, would it be permitted to do so if the
: driver was in YOSH and without accurate directions he could drive
: into a hostile Arab town?

I don't see the question. Safeiq piquach nefesh open-and-shut mutar,
no?

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

Q. I bought a set of used metal pots from a non-Jew. Do I kasher them first or do I tovel them first?



A. Shulchan Aruch (YD 121:2) writes that one should first kasher the pot
and afterwards immerse it in a mikvah. If one toveled the pot first before
kashering, it is a matter of dispute among Rishonim whether the tevila was
effective. The Rashbam (cited in Beis Yosef YD 121) writes that toveling a
pot before kosherization is like immersing in a mikvah while holding a
sheretz (unclean item) and the tevila is ineffective. However, other
Rishonim disagree and maintain that tevila is a separate mitzvah and is not
connected with kashering. The Shach (YD 121:5) writes that if one was to
tovel a pot before kashering, tevila should be repeated without a bracha
because of the uncertainty. Nonetheless, the Dagul Merivava writes if the
pot had not been used in the past 24 hours, one may tovel before kashering.
After 24 hours, the non-kosher taste that had been absorbed in the pot is
ruined. At that point the absorbed taste is no longer similar to a sheretz.


YL


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On 19/06/18 06:01, Micha Berger via Avodah wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 09:15:18AM +0200, Ben Waxman via Avodah wrote:
> : There is a question as to whether or not it is permitted for someone
> : to give driving directions on Shabbat to a Jew. According to the
> : opinion that says it is assur, would it be permitted to do so if the
> : driver was in YOSH and without accurate directions he could drive
> : into a hostile Arab town?
> 
> I don't see the question. Safeiq piquach nefesh open-and-shut mutar,
> no?

I don't know the answer, and wouldn't dare try to pasken it, but I do 
see a big question.  The person is in no danger now.  He will be in 
danger only if he chooses to drive on Shabbos.  Is it permitted to help 
him do so safely?  Does it make you an accomplice to his avera?   Does 
hal'itehu larasha' perhaps apply here?

-- 
Zev Sero            A prosperous and healthy 2018 to all
z...@sero.name       Seek Jerusalem's peace; may all who love you prosper

On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 6:17 PM Akiva Miller wrote:

> Let's consider someone who begins Shabbos early, and arrives home and
> begins his seudah before sunset. He will probably eat the bulk of his meal
> before shkia or tzeis, perhaps even the *entire* meal...
> In such a situation, what additions does one add to Birkas Hamazon? On a
> regular Shabbos, of course one would include Retzeh. But when straddling
> Rosh Chodesh and Shabbos, would one say Retzeh or Yaaleh V'yavo or both?

Please see the Mishna Berurah 188:32 where he quotes the Acharonim that if
during Seuda Shelishis someone davened maariv, he can no longer say retzei.
It seems that the same should apply erev shabbos, after one has davened
maariv, he can no longer say yaaleh veyovoh.

Akiva Blum

Please see the Mishna Berurah 188:32 where he quotes the Acharonim that if
during Seuda Shelishis someone davened maariv, he can no longer say retzei.
It seems that the same should apply erev shabbos, after one has davened
maariv, he can no longer say yaaleh veyovoh.
--------------------------
I wonder if he meant maariv literally or if one had intent and said atah
chonentanu as havdalah - since in theory you can daven maariv after
plag-would he say if you did that you don't say retzeih if you ate later?  
BTW in theory, when we finish shalosh seudot after tzeit (maybe shkia?)
shouldn't tadir vsheino tadir say we daven before we bentch?
KT
Joel Rich


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R' Akiva Blum wrote:
> Please see the Mishna Berurah 188:32 where he quotes the
> Acharonim that if during Seuda Shelishis someone davened
> maariv, he can no longer say retzei. It seems that the same
> should apply erev shabbos, after one has davened maariv, he
> can no longer say yaaleh veyovoh.

Your argument is logical, but not a proof. The acharonim and MB are
presumably speaking of a case where the individual davened maariv and
benched at a time on Saturday night when the sky was dark to some
degree or another.

Would they pasken the same way if the Seuda Shlishis was earlier, and
- for whatever reason - he had davened maariv and said birkas hamazon
on Saturday afternoon after Plag Hamincha? I concede that it is a
bizarre example, but the boundaries of halacha are defined by exactly
this sort of situation. It's not done nowadays, but a person *IS*
allowed to daven maariv on Shabbos afternoon after Plag. If someone
did so, and did it during seudah shlishis, and then chose to say
Birkas Hamazon while the sun was still above the horizon on Shabbos
afternoon, perhaps he should indeed say Retzeh? Perhaps not, but I'd
love to know what a posek might say.

Summary: The question in this thread concerns someone who is benching
on Friday afternoon which is Rosh Chodesh but he already said the
non-RC maariv. This is VERY analogous to someone who is benching on
Saturday afternoon which is Shabbos but he already said the
non-Shabbos maariv. It is NOT so analogous to someone who is benching
on Saturday night and he already said the non-Shabbos maariv, and the
only argument in favor of saying Retzeh is that the meal began on
Shabbos.

I just thought of another difference between Friday Rosh Chodesh and
the situation cited by RAB. If a person davened Maariv during seuda
shelishit - and presumably included Ata Chonantanu - then he has
verbally and explicitly declared Shabbos to be over, and it would be
contradictory to reverse this by saying Retzeh in the benching (even
if the sun is still shining on Saturday afternoon). BUT: When someone
says maariv on Motzaei Rosh Chodesh he merely omits Yaaleh V'yavo, and
there is no explicit declaration that RC has ended, so perhaps he
could still include Yaaleh V'yavo on Friday afternoon. [There would
still be a problem of including both Retzeh and Yaaleh V'yavo in the
same benching, but some poskim do allow that in the Rosh Chodesh
Motzaei Shabbos situation.]

Akiva Miller

My grandson Daniel Levine who is studying in Yeshiva KBY and I are in the
process of reading RSRH's Nineteen Letters with the notes written by Rabbi
Joseph Elias.  Today we read part of letter 18. While I knew that RSRH
criticizes the RAMBAM, I was surprised at how strong this criticism is.
Some of what is in letter 18 is posted at https://goo.gl/o3uXdg


Below is a sampling.


"Pressure of the times demanded more: the underlying ideas of the Tanach
and the Talmud were recorded in the aggados, but again, in a veiled form,
requiring of the student an active effort on his part in order to grasp the
inner spirit, which really can be passed down only by word of mouth."


"However, not everybody grasped the true spirit of Judaism. In non-Jewish
schools Yisrael's youth trained their minds in independent philosophical
inquiry. From Arab sources they drew the concepts of Greek philosophy and
came to conceive their ultimate aim as perfecting themselves in the
perception of truth. Hence rose conflict. Their quickening spirit put them
at odds with Judaism, which they considered to be void of any spirit of its
own; and their view of life was in contradiction with a view that stressed
action, deeds, first and foremost, and considered recognition of the truth
to only be a means toward such action."


And so the times brought forth a man of spirit who, having been educated
within an uncomprehended Judaism as well as Arab scholarship, was compelled
to reconcile this dichotomy within himself. By giving voice to the way in
which he did this, he became the guide for all who were engaged in the same
struggle.

It is to this great man alone that we owe the preservation of practical
Judaism until the present day. By accomplishing this and yet, on the other
hand merely reconciling Judaism with the ideas from without, rather than
developing it creatively from within, and by the way in which he effected
this reconciliation, he gave rise to all the good that followed- as well as
all the bad.
His trend of thought was Arab-Greek, as was his concept of life.
Approaching Judaism from without, he brought to it views that he had gained
elsewhere, and these he reconciled with Judaism. Thus to him too, the
highest aim was self-perfection through recognition of the truth; and the
practical, concrete deeds became subordinate to this end. Knowledge of God
was considered an end in itself, not a means toward the end; and so he
delved into speculations about the essence of God and considered the
results of these speculative investigations to be fundamental axioms and
principles of faith binding upon Judaism.


See the above URL for more.


YL
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On Wed, 20 Jun 2018, 4:46 p.m. Akiva Miller via Avodah, <
avo...@lists.aishdas.org> wrote:

> .
> R' Akiva Blum wrote:
> > Please see the Mishna Berurah 188:32 where he quotes the
> > Acharonim that if during Seuda Shelishis someone davened
> > maariv, he can no longer say retzei. It seems that the same
> > should apply erev shabbos, after one has davened maariv, he
> > can no longer say yaaleh veyovoh.
>
> Your argument is logical, but not a proof. The acharonim and MB are
> presumably speaking of a case where the individual davened maariv and
> benched at a time on Saturday night when the sky was dark to some
> degree or another.
>

>
Please see the MB 424:2 where he quotes the MA specifically about where one
davened maariv while still day that he can no longer say yaaleh veyovoh.

I wonder about a case where one said kabolas shabbos, then ate and davened
maariv later. I would think that too would be sufficient.

Akiva
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From https://goo.gl/ZEcnxP


The writings of Rabbi Samson Raphael Hirsch (RSRH) deeply resonate with
many people today, as they have since the time he penned them in the middle
of the nineteenth century, using them to recreate a community of modern,
Torah-faithful Jews in Frankfurt that had all but disappeared. Many find
that, ironically, his words seem more suited for our times than when he
composed them. He stands almost alone among commentators in dealing with
many themes of modernity: cultural evolution; our relationships with
non-Jews; the Jewish mission to the rest of civilization; freedom of the
will versus determinism; autonomy and totalitarianism; understanding the
impact of paganism on the ancient world. Of course, his treatment of
symbolism.


This web page contains links to commentaries on the parshios by Rabbi Yitzchok Adlerstein based on the writings of RSRH.


YL


<https://goo.gl/ZEcnxP>
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