Avodah Mailing List

Volume 36: Number 64

Fri, 25 May 2018

• 1. Re: insight from a MO mechaneich (Micha Berger)
• 2. Tanning/Sun-bathing on Shabbos (Professor L. Levine)
• 3. Two Questions on Theologically Motivated (Cantor Wolberg)
• 4. Re: Benefits of Davening K'Vosikin (Ben Waxman)
• 5. Donating a kidney if the recipient may be secular (Ben Waxman)
• 6. Re: theologically motivated ? (Micha Berger)
• 7. Re: Does Ru'ach Ra'ah (negative spirits) still exist today? (Toby Katz)
• 8. Re: theologically motivated (Toby Katz)
• 9. Re: Does Ru'ach Ra'ah (negative spirits) still exist today? (Rich, Joel)

This isn't an MO issue, even if the subject line mentions the affiliation
of the mechaneikh. For many people in yeshivish minyanim I attend,
davening with a tzibbur is something one does between gaps in looking
at a seifer.

And among the yeshivish-lite (Shababnikim?), minyan is an excuse to get
together for the qiddush.

We really don't know how to daven. And all the time we spend teaching
how to learn contributes to that. Defining religious inspiration in
terms of learning, new knowledge, makes it hard to find what the point
is in saying the same words yet again. When the majority of men who
learn daf don't chazer the gemara they learned until it comes around
again another 7 yrs 5 mo later, who can find patience for saying the
same words numerous times a week?

We need to know how to teach davening, whether in school or adult
education. Take a page from qumzitz and experiential religion, rather
than modes that look at sitting with a siddur in contrast to other
books. We define it those terms, tefillah won't get anywhere.


On Thu, May 24, 2018 at 01:01:44PM +0000, Rich, Joel via Avodah wrote:
: Interesting insight from a MO mechaneich-The generation that did not have
: the gap year in Israel was more likely to be able to move to a community
: and be inspired later in life by a community Rabbi. The generation that
: did have the gap year experience but returned home to be close to their
: prior levels of engagement are less likely to be inspired later in life
: by a community. Do you agree?

I think so, because gap year subtlely teaches the message that true
spirituality is incompatible with "reeal life". And that's why they need
to go to a 1 year religious experience, with no job, no secular studies,
no other concerns, not even the usual setting, in order to get inspiration
that is supposed to last year the rest of your life.

I believe it's an underdiscussed factor (among the many others) as to
why so many MO youth go yeshivish during gap year or upon return. That
implied message is not fully compatible with TuM or TiDE.

That said...

There are other factors. Telecom means you can hear from a famous rosh
yeshiva regularly, and don't need to "settle" for someone local as a
role model. Never mind that you can regularly connect with the LOR,
so that he is actually in a position to better model the role.

Also, the whole universal post-HS yeshiva thing feeds the RY-centric view
(outside of chassidishe admorim) of religious leadership now prevalent,
rather than the rabbinate. The shift from Agudas haRabbanim to the
Agudah's (or in Israel, Degel's) Mo'etzes haRabbanim.

Secondary effects: There is less tie and sense of belonging to a
particular qehillah. More and more people daven in a handful of places,
because this one is more convenient Fri night, another Shabbos morning,
a third for Shabbos afternoon, Sunday, weekdays... Qehillah could be
a source of positive peer pressure when inspiration is running low.
But only if you feel attached to one. (An LOR mentioned to me this effect
as a factor in OTD rates...)


As per the famous machgich line: It's chazaras hasha"tz, not chazaras
haSha"s!

: It reminded me of the simple agricultural pshat as to why we immediately
: go to def con 5 fasting if a little rain falls, the crops sprout a bit
: and then no more rain falls.

Although it's less that no more rain falls as much as the crops no longer
accept irrigation water. Okay, the metaphor doesn't really work.

A good rav who one can interact with regularly may be more useful

:-)BBii!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             What you get by achieving your goals
mi...@aishdas.org        is not as important as
http://www.aishdas.org   what you become by achieving your goals.
Fax: (270) 514-1507              - Henry David Thoreau

Halacha L'kovod Shabbos - "Tanning/Sun-bathing on Shabbos"

According to some Poskim it is prohibited to intentionally tan in the sun
on Shabbos. Nevertheless it is permitted to walk or sit outdoors on a sunny
day even if there is the probability of becoming tanned (even if one would
be pleased that this happened - so long as one is not intentionally
tanning) because the tanning is not intentional. One may also apply a thin
and pourable suntan lotion for protection against sunburn when walking or
sitting outdoors. However, one may not use a cream. S'U Minchas Yitzchok
5:32, Shmiras Shabbos Kehilchasa 18:70, Sefer 39 Melochos


YL
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From "Scalia Speaks" - "The religious person - the truly religious person -
cannot divide all his policy preferences into those that are theologically
motivated and those that proceed from purely naturalistic inclinations.

1) What is the difference between ?The religious person? and ?the truly religious person??

2) What exactly do you mean by "cannot divide all his policy preferences
into those that are theologically motivated and those that proceed from
purely naturalistic inclinations??

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In this case, the problem pre-dated the smart? (or cell) phone.

On 5/25/2018 4:38 PM, Prof. Levine via Avodah wrote:
> Sadly,? with almost everyone (except me) using smart phone and 
> texting,? the English language is, IMO,? going down the drain.? People 
> do not spell properly,? write things that are not words,? etc.? This 
> is the way things are and Hebrew will be spared either.

Ever wonder what is the nafka mina of deciding if secular people are 
tinok sh'nishba or not? Here is a biggy. There is (apparently) a 
machloket between Rav Kanyevski and Rav Edelstein if it is permitted to 
donate a kidney if it may end up in someone secular. RK believes it 
shouldn't be done because he paskens like Rav Elyashiv that no one today 
has the din of tinok sh'nishba and therefore they shouldn't get this 
type of help from the religious. RE paskens like the classic Chazon Ish 
psak that today's secular people do have the tinok din? and therefore it 
is permitted to donate a kidney to a secular person.

See the article (Hebrew) for more details.

http://www.israelhayom.co.il/article/558795

On Thu, May 24, 2018 at 12:59:56PM +0000, Rich, Joel via Avodah wrote:
: From "Scalia Speaks" - "The religious person - the truly religious
: person - cannot divide all his policy preferences into those that are
: theologically motivated and those that proceed from purely naturalistic
: inclinations. Can any of us say whether he would be the sort of moral
: creature he is without a belief in a supreme Lawgiver, and hence in a
: Supreme Law?"

: Me- how would you answer this question? How would an atheist? What would
: be an acceptable answer for a religious person to give if asked at a
: judicial confirmation hearing in the US? In Israel?

I think it's self-evident.

If the gov't is "of the people and by the people" (regardless of
"for the people", appologies Pres Lincoln), then the only way to
really seperate church and state would be to separate church and
people.

And "church" here includes not only all religion, but all religious
stances. Including atheism, agnosticism, apathy and Sherleyism.

A person's vote should be informed by their values.

And a person's values by their religious stance -- whether religious,
"truly religious", or an atheist. After all, an atheist cannot phrase
abortion or end-of-life issues in terms of souls and therefore their
etheism will inform their vote when Pro-Life vs Pro-Choice is a key
issue. (Looking at you, Ireland!)

:-)BBii!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             The true measure of a man
mi...@aishdas.org        is how he treats someone
http://www.aishdas.org   who can do him absolutely no good.
Fax: (270) 514-1507                   - Samuel Johnson

From: "Professor L. Levine" <llev...@stevens.edu>
T

From Today's OU Kosher Halacha Yomis


Q. Does Ru'ach Ra'ah (negative spirits) still exist today?



A. In many places, the Gemara discusses Ruach Ra'ah, ayin horah, sheidim
and other negative spiritual forces. Though the Rambam interpreted many of
these references in Torah literature in a homiletical manner, most Rishonim
understood them in a literal sense, and the Shulchan Oruch and other
halachic codifiers discuss practical implications of Ruach Ra'ah and other
negative forces.

Though people might view such matters as unscientific and mere superstition, it should be noted that much of reality is not visible to the naked eye....?

.....the Gemara (Yoma 77b) writes that during the course of the day, one
must wash their hands before feeding bread to a young child; otherwise a
Ru'ach Ra'ah will affect the bread. The Tur (OC 613) writes that this form
of ru'ach ra'ah no longer exists (though it is still present when waking in
the morning). As such there is no longer a requirement to wash one's hands
before touching bread that one will feed to a child.


YL
?
>>>>>
?
It is possible that one manifestation of ruach raah may be bacteria.? So parents should definitely wash their hands before feeding their children.?
?
?
--Toby Katz
t6...@aol.com
?
=============
?
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From: "Rich, Joel" <JR...@sibson.com>



From "Scalia Speaks" - "The religious person - the truly religious person -
cannot divide all his policy preferences into those that are theologically
motivated and those that proceed from purely naturalistic inclinations. Can
any of us say whether he would be the sort of moral creature he is without
a belief in a supreme Lawgiver, and hence in a Supreme Law?"

?
Me- how would you answer this question? How would an atheist? What would be
an acceptable answer for a religious person to give if asked at a judicial
confirmation hearing in the US? In Israel?

KT
Joel Rich
?
?
>>>>>
?
There is no constitutional requirement, no legal requirement, no ethical
requirement and no logical requirement for each individual to erect a wall
of separation between church and state in his own heart and mind.?
?
--Toby Katz
t6...@aol.com
?
=============
?
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>>>>>

It is possible that one manifestation of ruach raah may be bacteria.  So parents should definitely wash their hands before feeding their children.


--Toby Katz
t6...@aol.com<mailto:t6...@aol.com>

=============

IIRC R? A Soloveitchik explained sheidim this way.
KT
Joel Rich
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