Volume 35: Number 125
Thu, 26 Oct 2017
Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
Message: 1
From: Sholom Simon
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2017 15:50:00 -0400
Subject: [Avodah] Long Lifespans in Bereishis
Thanks, RMB, for posting that article. Re the views of R. Moses Ibn
Tibbon, et al, who don't take those ages literally on a single person --
is that (along the lines of an off-line conversation we had) a "kosher
view" these days? Or, is it one of those views that, the way R Noson
Slifkin puts it: they are allowed to have those views, but we aren't?
On a different, but related issue, to the chevra:
The list of generations in parshas Bereshis are generally of the form:
* X was 50 years old when he fathered Y.
* X lived 450 years after he fathered Y and had sons and daughters
* X lived to the age of 500 years.
Doesn't that seem a bit redundant? And, in fact, most (all?) of the
generations listed in parshas Noach skip the third phrase.
Thoughts?
-- Sholom
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.aishdas.org/pipermail/avo
dah-aishdas.org/attachments/20171024/de273ce8/attachment-0001.html>
Go to top.
Message: 2
From: hankman
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2017 18:28:28 -0400
Subject: [Avodah] Long Lifespans in Bereishis
From the summary of opinions posted by RMB on lifespans in Bereishis and some comments:
?R. Saadiah Gaon (10th cent.) discusses this issue in his introduction
to Tehillim. He writes that the longevity of these early generations
was part of God's plan for the rapid proliferation of mankind on
the earth.....?
Not the biggest kashe in the world, but why then would they start to have children at an advanced age if rapid proliferation was the goal?
Perhaps with great longevity came a much longer period for sexual
maturation? If true would that also mean that intellectual maturation took
much longer as well?
?R. Yehudah Ha-Levi (12th cent.) discusses the issue in the Kuzari
(sec. 95). He believes that it was only the individuals listed who
lived long. Each of the individuals listed was the heart and essence
of his generation and was physically and spiritually perfect.
The Divine Flow was transmitted from one generation to another
through these exceptional individuals.?
How does R. Yehudah Ha-Levi deal with Terach who was an idolator? Clearly he was not
spiritually perfect.
?... R. Moses Ibn Tibbon (late 13th cent.) He suggests that
the years given for people's lives were actually the years of
"malkhutam ve-nimuseihim," i.e., the dynasties and/or customs that
they established.?
This comment will apply to R. Nissim of Marseilles as well. I presume they
held that people had what we today would consider a normal life span. this
would mean they were not having the first born at the advanced age of over
one hundred. Thus the named son must have been a later generation
descendant. (I assume that they did not generate a son in their old age and
die shortly thereafter as was the case with Boaz). So if their life spans
were similar to ours then was Shes really not a son of Adam but really a
descendant several generations down? Ditto for Ennosh, was he really a
great ... grandson of Sheis? But this notion of the the years given in
Bereishis not pertaining to one single man, but to a dynasty of several
generations of normal life span, runs into difficulty with Noach and his 3
sons. If we follow suit with this notion then Shem, Cham and Yefes were not
his sons but descendants born 500 years later. Yet they all went into the
Teiva together? So how is that a no
rmal lif
e span for Noach? Why weren?t the generations between Noach and Shem, Cham
and Yefes saved as well? When the Torah says ?vayoled es X? that is not to
be taken literally but just to mean a later descendant chosen to be named
in the lineage?
?
R. Saadiah Gaon writes (Emunot Ve-Deot, end of
chap. 7) that in the era of the redemption the human lifespan will
be approximately 500 years. Presumably, at that time we won't be
bothered by those long lifespans in Genesis anymore!
(Note that Radak, comm. to Is. 65:20, is a bit stingier. He predicts
lifespans of only 300 to 500 years. See also his commentary to
Ps. 92:15. But the 12th century Babylonian Gaon R. Samuel b. Ali
predicts lifespans closer to 1000 years!)?
This quote leads to an issue I will expand upon slightly in another post.
But the basic issue is if the world is Charuv at 6000 years and yemos
Moshiach are before the olom is charuv, (while olom keminhago noheig) there
is not enough time left (we are now 5778) for a life span of 300 to 500
years let alone 1000 years.
Kol tuv
Chaim Manaster
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.aishdas.org/pipermail/avo
dah-aishdas.org/attachments/20171024/f447722a/attachment-0001.html>
Go to top.
Message: 3
From: Micha Berger
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2017 07:13:32 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] Long Lifespans in Bereishis
On Tue, Oct 24, 2017 at 06:28:28PM -0400, hankman (RVM) wrote:
: > (Note that Radak, comm. to Is. 65:20, is a bit stingier. He predicts
: > lifespans of only 300 to 500 years. See also his commentary to
: > Ps. 92:15. But the 12th century Babylonian Gaon R. Samuel b. Ali
: > predicts lifespans closer to 1000 years!)"
: This quote leads to an issue I will expand upon slightly in another
: post. But the basic issue is if the world is Charuv at 6000 years and
: yemos Moshiach are before the olom is charuv, (while olom keminhago
: noheig) there is not enough time left (we are now 5778) for a life span
: of 300 to 500 years let alone 1000 years.
This all depends on the machloqes about defining olam haba
and whether techiyas hameisim is permanent. As well as any machloqesin
as to whether yemos hamoshiach starts with techiyas hameisim or
ends with a new era, that itself starts with teshiyas hameisim.
Rambam: olam haba means the non-physical world a neshamah is in between
life and teshiyas hameisim, as well as after a second death. Since olam
haba is the ultimate form of existence, defining that ultimate as the
place souls go when dead necessitates a second death after techiyas
hameisim. The Rambam (and the Iqarim, and others, I just picked on name
for thumbnail-sketch reasons) then has to explain what the point of the
second life is.
Ramban (similarly, among others): olam haba, the ultimate existence,
is body together with guf after techiyas hameisim. And therefore the
post-th"m life must be external.
According to the first shitah, it could be that post-th"m life is in
gan eden is Adam's sense and thus life lasts as long as his could have.
But then there's the question of whether your assumed dates hold.... My
point is mainly that I think there are too many unknowns to even ask
your question. I just anded up belaboring the one unknown I once wrote
about. <http://www.aishdas.org/mesukim/5764/shemini.pdf> on how this
machloqes may impact what is the point of Brikhas Gevurah ("Atah Gibor").
BTW, I just noticed, underlying that machloqes about what is olam haba
and techiyas hameisim might be a difference in the definition of a person.
It looks to me like the Rambam is saying a person is a soul who lives
in a body. And therefore the ultimate in existence is not to have that
body interpolated between me and experiencing Hashem's Presence.
Whereas the Ramban is saying that a person is a synthesis of body and
soul, and therefore cannot enjoy the rewards of their efforts when the
two halves are separated.
Tir'u baTov!
-Micha
--
Micha Berger If a person does not recognize one's own worth,
mi...@aishdas.org how can he appreciate the worth of another?
http://www.aishdas.org - Rabbi Yaakov Yosef of Polnoye,
Fax: (270) 514-1507 author of Toldos Yaakov Yosef
Go to top.
Message: 4
From: hankman
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2017 10:40:29 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] Long Lifespans in Bereishis
R.Miciha Berger wrote:
"On Tue, Oct 24, 2017 at 06:28:28PM -0400, hankman (RVM) wrote:
:if the world is Charuv at 6000 years and
: yemos Moshiach are before the olom is charuv, (while olom keminhago
: noheig) there is not enough time left (we are now 5778) for a life span
: of 300 to 500 years let alone 1000 years.
This all depends on the machloqes about defining olam haba
and whether techiyas hameisim is permanent. As well as any machloqesin
as to whether yemos hamoshiach starts with techiyas hameisim or
ends with a new era, that itself starts with teshiyas hameisim.
...."
You also need to fit in when exactly in the sequence of these events Yom
Hadin Hagodol happens according to each of these shitos.
So the many events of "Achris Hatomim" that one need consider to compile a
chronology of this mysterious period would include Gog uMagog, Moshiach be
Yosef, coming of Eliyahu, yitaka bashofor gadol (before moshiach, or yom
hadin hagodol, or techias hameisim?), the nevuos of Zecharyahu and other
nevi'im about this period, Bayis shelishi, Kibutz golios, Moshiach ben Dovid
(including how long is this period), vanquishing of the yetzer, Techias
Hameisim (before Moshiach or before yom hadin or before both?), Yom hadin
hagodol, yom hadin hakoton (after death?) Olom charuv (and to what extent it
is charuv and why), Gan Eden, Olom haneshamos, Olam haba (final gemul, with
or without a guf, and the ultimate purpose of creation so Hashem can be
meitiv lezuloso). After writing this I checked out your "Mesukim Midevash"
and apparently there will be at least four versions of this chronology
(which you began to build in your article) lefi the Rambam, Ramban, Rav
Saadia Gaon and the Ikkarim but needs some fleshing out.
R Micha Berger wrote:
"Ramban (similarly, among others): olam haba, the ultimate existence,
is body together with guf after techiyas hameisim. And therefore the
post-th"m life must be external.
....
But then there's the question of whether your assumed dates hold.... My
point is mainly that I think there are too many unknowns to even ask
your question...."
It is not clear to me what "assumed dates" or what the "unknowns" are that
you mention?
I only mentioned 5778. Is that date in doubt??
R. Micha Berger wrote:
"BTW, I just noticed, underlying that machloqes about what is olam haba
and techiyas hameisim might be a difference in the definition of a person.
It looks to me like the Rambam is saying a person is a soul who lives
in a body. And therefore the ultimate in existence is not to have that
body interpolated between me and experiencing Hashem's Presence.
Whereas the Ramban is saying that a person is a synthesis of body and
soul, and therefore cannot enjoy the rewards of their efforts when the
two halves are separated.
Tir'u baTov!
-Micha"
The gemara in Sanhedrin that talks about the need for both the neshama and
the guf to be together at yom hadin, works well with your peshat in the
Ramban and could be a possible source for his position, but your explanation
of the Rambam with the guf just being something donned by the neshama as
necessary for its trip to this world, much like a diver dons scuba gear to
enable him to function in this temporary environment, then much as it makes
no senses to require the scuba gear at the divers trial, so too this gemara
requiring the presence of the guf at the yom hadin doesn't really make much
sense.
Kol tuv
Chaim Manaster
Go to top.
Message: 5
From: Ben Waxman
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2017 19:48:54 +0200
Subject: [Avodah] offering a higher salary
I've seen posts claiming that it is forbidden to offer cleaners a higher
salary to work for you. While I can understand that it makes sense to
say that no one can break a specific agreement for a specific day of
work, why should it be forbidden to offer a higher salary to someone who
has a long term agreement?? A, this is the common practice in the high
tech world and I have never heard anyone say "Assur". It would seem that
there is general agreement that this halacha simply doesn't apply today.
Second, how can anyone be meshuabad in such a way to one person? Does a
person wanting a higher salary have to simply quit without any idea
about having another job?
Ben
Go to top.
Message: 6
From: Motti Yarchinai
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2017 19:39:33 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Re: [Avodah] Psak source wanted
Dear Micha and Avodah members,
Thank you Micha for your reply and your attempts to locate a source.
On Sun, Oct 15, 2017 at 08:00:51AM +0000, Motti Yarchinai via Avodah wrote:
> Can anyone help me with a source for this psak: It is similar to what
> the Rambam wrote...
> Another posek writes something similar but couched in even more dramatic
> terms. The following is not a verbatim quote (since the original is in
> Hebrew) but something very close to it:
> "And even if the residents of eretz yisrael are all ignoramuses
> and peasants, and the authorities of chutz la'aretz are great
> scholars and knowledgable in Torah and halachah, in calendric
> matters we follow the peasants and ignoramuses, not the scholars
> of chutz la'aretz."
Micha replied:
> Did you ever find a source? Google, Bar Ilan and I didn't turn
> anything up....
No, I have not found it yet, but my memory of it is that I saw it in
print, and, to my annoyance, I can't find the sefer, but it is bound
to turn up sooner or later. When it does, I will repost with the source
and quote. Meanwhile, if someone recognises it, please do let me know.
Motti
Go to top.
Message: 7
From: Sholom Simon
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2017 16:48:29 -0400
Subject: [Avodah] A Great Name
One of the implicit criticisms of Migdal Bavel was that they wanted
to make a name for themselves. Then, at the beginning of Lech L'cha,
H' tells Avram that he will make his name great.
There must be something there . . . anybody have any thoughts?
-- Sholom
Go to top.
Message: 8
From: Zev Sero
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2017 23:57:37 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] offering a higher salary
On 25/10/17 13:48, Ben Waxman via Avodah wrote:
> I've seen posts claiming that it is forbidden to offer cleaners a higher
> salary to work for you.
I believe this halacha is a subset of "hasagas gevul", not in the
Biblical sense, but in the commonly-used sense, which in in turn a
subset of the obligation of ahavas yisrael.
"Hasagas gevul" basically means that if you with to start a business and
you have a choice between doing it somewhere that will harm me and
somewhere that will not, then all else being equal you are obligated to
take the second option out of consideration for me, because ve'ahavta
lere`acha kamocha. Similarly, if I am renting a forest or an inn from
a nochri, from which I make my living, and you offer him a higher rent,
you are violating your obligation to value my interests equally with
your own.
It should be obvious, however, that if the landlord is also "re`acha"
then this does not apply, because you have the same obligation to him as
to me; if he could be getting more rent from his property then you
should make him that offer, though he should give me a chance to match
it, since I am the "bar metzra".
I think the same thing is going on with the cleaners. If I have a
nochris who is willing to clean for me for $N, you have no right to lure
her away by offering more. But if she is "re`acha" then aderaba you
have a mitzvah to offer her a chance to improve her income, but before
taking your offer she should offer me the chance to match it.
--
Zev Sero May 2017, with its *nine* days of Chanukah,
z...@sero.name be a brilliant year for us all
Go to top.
Message: 9
From: Rich, Joel
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2017 12:08:27 +0000
Subject: [Avodah] Jewish Action
Since I can sometimes be critical of organizations (not here where I
usually manage not to say anything negative [HT - My Mom ZLL"HH - "If you
have nothing nice to say, don't say anything]), I want to give a shout out
to the OU Fall Jewish Action.
1.) Moshe Baine poses the two questions I use as an individual/community
test (i) How often do we factor God into our daily decisions, both large
and small? [Me - how central is the Ratzon Hashem in our lives?] (ii) What
are we prepared to "give up" to comply with what we perceive as God's
wishes? [Me - does God always seem to agree with what you want?] 2.) Allen
Fagin asks "whether we as a community view Yishuv Haaretz as a basic tenet
of our spiritual aspirations? [Me - Tell me how often it's discussed or how
many folks yearn (while we're at it, how many really yearn for the Beit
Hamikdash?)]
Now what do we do as a community and as individuals about any perceived
shortfalls in these two areas is an old Avodah question but maybe it is
gaining traction?
KT
Joel Rich
THIS MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE USE OF THE
ADDRESSEE. IT MAY CONTAIN PRIVILEGED OR CONFIDENTIAL
INFORMATION THAT IS EXEMPT FROM DISCLOSURE. Dissemination,
distribution or copying of this message by anyone other than the addressee is
strictly prohibited. If you received this message in error, please notify us
immediately by replying: "Received in error" and delete the message.
Thank you.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.aishdas.org/pipermail/avo
dah-aishdas.org/attachments/20171026/a6137057/attachment-0001.html>
Go to top.
Message: 10
From: Micha Berger
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2017 10:13:06 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] Jewish Action
On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 12:08:27PM +0000, Rich, Joel via Avodah wrote:
: 1.) Moshe Baine poses the two questions I use as an individual/community
: test (i) How often do we factor God into our daily decisions, both large
: and small? [Me - how central is the Ratzon Hashem in our lives?] (ii)
: What are we prepared to "give up" to comply with what we perceive as
: God's wishes? [Me - does God always seem to agree with what you want?]
What you call question (i) gets a scathing answer in that recent and hotly
discussed blog post, "Modern Orthodoxy from a Teenager's Perspective"
<http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/modern-orthodoxy-from-a-teenagers-p
erspective>
by Eitan Gross. The-future-R Gross opines that it is common knowledge
in MO circles that we dont make Ratzon Hashem central enough for MO
to succeed.
Modern Orthodoxy tries to create a balance that, at the moment,
cannot work because we have no drive to be with Hashem and lack the
philosophical and hashkafic perspective to articulate why we should
be Jewish in a world with an assortment of other options. Therefore,
we need to take a fresh look at education and schooling. There needs
to be an emphasis on the truth of the tenets of Judaism, as well as
an inspirational approach that creates a yearning and desire in the
student to be closer to Hashem.
And
When I tried to publish this essay at a local Jewish newspaper they
said "We cant publish this piece, it's too much for us. Plus you're
only a senior in high school, so you don't have the authority to have
a say in the current situation." Although they were against putting
this essay to print, the head of the paper still agreed with me,
"Modern Orthodoxy has major flaws and everyone knows it."
If "everyone knows it", but no one does anything then it must be
that they think Modern Orthodoxy is too big to change....
I think he means the Modern Orthodox community has major flaws, not the
contept "Modern Orthodoxy" itself -- or why would he be so concerned
with being able to save it?
I need to add, this being Avodah, that this problem of the confusion
between halakhah as a means and halakhah as an ends in-and-of-itself
has symptoms in all our communities.
Quoting myself, from my "manifesto" Tools and Goals
<http://www.torahmusings.com/2014/01/tools-and-goals>
... How would this play out communally?
One possible outcome is that we would find a community of very
committed, very observant Jews, but who do not show all the signs of
the holiness the Torah is supposed to bring us to. This could happen
if there is insufficient attention to the entire notion of a goal
beyond the halakhah, so that black letter halakhah -- that which can
be measured, laid out in clear obligated or prohibited terms -- takes
center seat without any attempt to become the kind of person more
capable of fulfilling the full breadth of its commandments. There
would be mixed reports of business ethics, scandals of respected
rabbis committing fiscal crimes, others unable to control their lust,
yet others abusing their power over their students in other ways.
Another possible outcome is an idealistic community, but one whose
ideals are not Torah derived. In such a community ideals would be taken
from some segment of the surrounding culture, and halakhah would be
reduced to a means of "blessing" goals that we assimilated from the
outside, that at times will resemble the holiness Hashem has readied
for us, and at times will differ.
A third possibility is particular to a community that teaches the need
to engage the world around it, to risk the battle of its challenges in
order to use what's positive in the surrounding society to further our
sanctity. Without a firm eye and a constant striving toward an ideal,
the energy it takes to maintain this delicate balance too easily
collapses into a life of compromise. And so, for too many in this
community the negative elements of modernity are incorporated into
their lives, and also for many strict observance itself suffers.
Do these portraits sound familiar?
The problem has another symptom which is less problematic -- the rise of
Brisk over other darkhei halimmud. A culture in which O means following
black-letter Shulchan Arukh will naturally gravitate toward a derekh
halimmud that shuns explanations that are in terms of first principles
that come before halakhah.
RYBS's Halakhic Man denies they even exist.
That said, R' Chaim Brisker's own life was more about values and acts
of chessed than Arukh Chaim or Yoreh Dei'ah. The family noted this --
for all his lomdus, RCB's mateivah reads "Rav haChesed". The problem
is not inherent to Brisk.
Therefore, it will be interesting to see how MO evolves, and whether
this remains their most pressing problem. YU now has a mashpiah,
classes in the Aish Qodesh, Tanya, R' Nachman, it has singing minyanim.
Within the halls of YU, Halakhic Man is facing growing competition.
Lenaar al pi darko -- this diversity is healthy.
But with more semichah students looking to the goals rather than stopping
at the halachic tools, MO culture is bound to change in a way that reduces
this issue.
Tir'u baTov!
-Micha
--
Micha Berger When faced with a decision ask yourself,
mi...@aishdas.org "How would I decide if it were Ne'ilah now,
http://www.aishdas.org at the closing moments of Yom Kippur?"
Fax: (270) 514-1507 - Rav Yisrael Salanter
Go to top.
Message: 11
From: Rich, Joel
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2017 12:05:45 +0000
Subject: [Avodah] Timtum Halev
There was an interesting article in the Journal "Ohr Yisrael" #16 by
R'Avraham Rubin on Timtum Halev (spiritual pollution). His general
conclusion was that eating something that would be classified as "forbidden
foods," if you know it is such, will cause timtum halev (spiritual
character defects) even if you are permitted to eat it in your case (e.g.,
pikuach nefesh - life-threatening situation). However, if you eat a
"factually forbidden food" based on a mistaken halachic decision by an
authorized halachic source, no such damage will occur.
Interesting that this IIUC would yield the result that one could be
halachically required to eat the "forbidden food" (rather than commit
suicide by starving to death), yet still develop character defects because
of it. Seems non-halachic man to me . I know we've discussed before-I
submit a data point in that discussion.
KT
Joel Rich
THIS MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE USE OF THE
ADDRESSEE. IT MAY CONTAIN PRIVILEGED OR CONFIDENTIAL
INFORMATION THAT IS EXEMPT FROM DISCLOSURE. Dissemination,
distribution or copying of this message by anyone other than the addressee is
strictly prohibited. If you received this message in error, please notify us
immediately by replying: "Received in error" and delete the message.
Thank you.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.aishdas.org/pipermail/avo
dah-aishdas.org/attachments/20171026/95276a45/attachment-0001.html>
Go to top.
Message: 12
From: Micha Berger
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2017 12:04:55 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] Timtum Halev
On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 12:05:45PM +0000, Rich, Joel via Avodah wrote:
: ... "Ohr Yisrael" #16 by R'Avraham Rubin ... general conclusion was
: that eating something that would be classified as "forbidden foods,"
: if you know it is such, will cause timtum halev (spiritual character
: defects) even if you are permitted to eat it in your case (e.g., pikuach
: nefesh - life-threatening situation). However, if you eat a "factually
: forbidden food" based on a mistaken halachic decision by an authorized
: halachic source, no such damage will occur.
I invite RMRabi to comment on that last sentence. He and I debated for
most of a year whether the Maharal would agree that someone who follows
a mistaken pesaq is different in kind than someone who makes the mistake
themselves.
I presume that if eating because of "a mistaken halachic decision by an
authorized halachic source" does not cause timtum heleiv, R Avraham Rubin
would say that all the more so, eating food that as a matter of unknown
fact happens to be kosher but we correctly rule may be eaten because of
rov, chazaqah, bitul or whatever would not damage. I would think RAR is
coming down on the side of saying that it's the sin, not the substance,
which causes the spiritual damage.
To my mind -- a hashkafically simpler position, since there is Justice
to life being worse due to a sin than due to something premitted.
In which case, RAR's opening ruling, that the person starting to death
who eats the only available edible which happens to be non-kosher,
would seem to be based on ruling that saving one's life overrides
the prohibition (making it petura), not that the eating is actually
permissible (hutra). For if it were hutra, how would the case differ
from correctly following received pesaq?
And if it is because of peturah, that the prohibition is being broken,
but the violation is permissible for the sake of a greater value, then
I can understand how its Just even if we were to say the cause is the
substance. The sin is happening, and we know it's happening; we just
chose the lesser sin. Lemah hadavar domeh: chemo is poison. For the sake
of the greater danger, cancer, a person may take chemo. But the poison
still does its effect. The person did what was medically recommended,
and the recommendation was made knowing there was a self-destructive
element to the act.
: Interesting that this IIUC would yield the result that one could be
: halachically required to eat the "forbidden food" (rather than commit
: suicide by starving to death), yet still develop character defects
: because of it. Seems non-halachic man to me....
Halachic man wouldn't ask the question of timtum haleiv to begin with. It
is not a halachic category.
Tir'u baTov!
-Micha
--
Micha Berger The fittingness of your matzos [for the seder]
mi...@aishdas.org isn't complete with being careful in the laws
http://www.aishdas.org of Passover. One must also be very careful in
Fax: (270) 514-1507 the laws of business. - Rav Yisrael Salanter
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Avodah mailing list
Avo...@lists.aishdas.org
http://www.aishdas.org/avodah
http://lists.aishdas.org/listinfo.cgi/avodah-aishdas.org
------------------------------
***************************************
Send Avodah mailing list submissions to
avodah@lists.aishdas.org
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://lists.aishdas.org/listinfo.cgi/avodah-aishdas.org
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
avodah-request@lists.aishdas.org
You can reach the person managing the list at
avodah-owner@lists.aishdas.org
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Avodah digest..."
A list of common acronyms is available at
http://www.aishdas.org/lists/avodah/avodah-acronyms
(They are also visible in the web archive copy of each digest.)