Avodah Mailing List

Volume 35: Number 58

Mon, 01 May 2017

• 1. Re: Sous-Vide cooking (before) over Shabbos: A Tshuva from Rav Asher Weiss (Rich, Joel)
• 2. Re: [Areivim] Better to die (Ben Bradley)
• 3. Re: Burning sold chameitz (Micha Berger)
• 4. Re: Chol Moed Minyan for Those Who Wear Tefillen (Micha Berger)
• 5. Re: If You Are Choshesh for GeBrochts You MUST be Choshesh that Youir Matza is Chamets (Micha Berger)
• 6. Re: Chol Moed Minyan for Those Who Wear Tefillen (Micha Berger)
• 7. Re: Sous-Vide cooking (before) over Shabbos: A Tshuva from Rav Asher Weiss (Isaac Balbin)
• 8. Nidche (saul newman)
• 9. Re: Nidche (saul newman)
• 10. Re: Nidche (Ben Waxman)
• 11. Re: Nidche (Harry Maryles)

From AudioRoundup at Torah Musings:
http://www.yutorah.org/lectures/lecture.cfm/864540/rabbi-aryeh-lebowitz/
from-the-rabbis-desk-sous-vide-cooking-for-shabbos-(and-through-shabbos)/
Rabbi Aryeh Lebowitz-From The Rabbi?s Desk ? Sous Vide Cooking For Shabbos (and Through Shabbos)
Sous vide cooking (another thing we?ve lived without but now sounds like it
will be the next sushi). If you do it for, or over Shabbat, is there an
issue of hatmana or shehiya?


FWIW the hashkafa at the end of R?Asher Weiss?s tshuva is well worth thinking about ? we seem to live in an age where any sacrifice is difficult.

KT
Joel Rich


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I didn't think I was giving two answers, just clarifying further. So, let's
work through it again. I must admit I have looked at neither Rishonim
(except Rambam) nor achronim. But here goes:

The gemara says that this smitten man must not even even have a
conversation through a partition with the object of his desire on pain of
YaVY. The gemara then says that this works fine for an eishes ish, The
first question should be why that's obvious? Since when is conversation
with an eishes ish YvAY? We answered that by saying, al pi Rambam, that the
point of the gemara is to clarify how far we apply YvAY to hana'as issur
arayos. The answer, which is surprising to us  but causes the gemara no
problem is that , even sexual hana'a from a conversation carries the din
YvAY.

That's the first man d'amar. The second MdA , that we mean even a penuya,
causes the gemara problems because there's apparently no problem of hana'a
from a penuya, or at least certainly not involving YvAY and certainly not
from a conversation. So mai kulei hai?

The chiddush here is that we're even gozer YvAY on hana'a from a penuya due to societal considerations of bnos yisrael not being hefker etc.


However, the bottom line for our original reason for analysing this gemara
remains that it's not part of the cheshbon governing any standard
interactions in which any ben Torah might participate, as it only applies
to someone sick enough to have inevitable sexual hana'a from a
conversation.

R Micha's two correspondents can feel free to challange that whether off or on list.

BW
Ben


Unless, as in your first email, the issue is more about rewarding the guy
for letting his taavos get so worked up.

I see a slight conflict in your answers.

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On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 09:45:20PM +0200, Ben Waxman via Avodah wrote:
: http://bit.ly/2pui5Hy
: ...
: OK. But today i looked at the contract used to authorize the
: rabbinate to sell one's chameitz (linked above). It says very
: clearly, that they are selling ALL of a person's chameitz....
: 
: So my question returns: would someone burn chameitz that they found?

I think the "out" is the clause "sheyeish lanu ba'alus alava". So,
chameitz that you didn't have baalus on, but was delivered on Pesach
wouldn't be included. (And would be a davar shelo ba le'olam, even if
you did try to include it.)

No, that doesn't cover things you owned since before Pesach and were
unware "delo chazisei" that you only found on Pesach.

OTOH, wasn't that stuff already mevutal anyway?

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 10:03:15PM -0400, Akiva Miller via Avodah wrote:
:> BTW, if I had to guess, it would depend on whether people are
:> indeed motivated by a consciencous following of family customs
:> and the perspective on Torah that comes with their subculture.
:> And how much is simple ethnic pride and the actual identification
:> with Litvaks or Hungarians or Yekkes, Mughrabi or Halbi than
:> identification with the Jewish People, or shomerei Torah umitzvos
:> as self-identifications.

: That's an excellent analysis, until we ask which side of the aisle the
: MB and AhS were on.

: By insisting that the whole shul should do the same thing, aren't they
: putting the main emphasis on family customs, their own subculture,
: ethnic pride, and subgroup identification -- with LESS emphasis on
: identification with the Jewish People and shomerei Torah umitzvos? ...

I don't see how they are. If someone says there should be a single pesaq
for a location and the shul could be consistent is talking about unity.
Not about whether our community's minhagim are better or worse than those
of another community -- they aren't present to suggest we're comparing.

I was contrasting two different motives for breaking that unity:

The first archetype is the one who does so because he takes more
self-identity from his Litvisher (eg) ancestry than in being in part of
the observant community, or Jewish community in general.

The second is the one who is motivated by the logic of the pesaq or
the hashkafah payoff. Such as someone who is "into" qabbalah for whom
"qotzeitz bintiyos" means something and motivates not feeling happy in
tefillin on ch"m.

I was suggesting that lo sisgodedu only rules out the first motivation,
not the second.

But the acharon who promotes everyone following one practice isn't a
question of whether their motivation is more important than lo sisgodedu
to begin with.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Today is the 19th day, which is
mi...@aishdas.org        2 weeks and 5 days in/toward the omer.
http://www.aishdas.org   Hod sheb'Tifferes: When does harmony promote
Fax: (270) 514-1507                         withdrawal and submission?

On Sat, Apr 29, 2017 at 08:17:11PM +1000, Rabbi Meir G. Rabi via Avodah wrote:
: The problem is
: once the Gebrochts-nicks express a Chashash
: that the central part of the Matza
: is not fully baked
: then never mind the problem of flour
: which will BECOME Chamets
: when it gets wet
...

Again, if gebrochts were about the middle not being baked, it would be
worries about chameitz whether or not the matzah later gets in contact
with water.

It's about flour that didn't become kneaded. As the SA haRav states,
the Besht ate gebrochts because in his day the 1 mil timer was stopped
for kneading. We came up with this chumerah of trying to fit everything,
including the kneading in the time limit. Which caused us to start rushing
the kneading. (Yet, the Alter Rebbe of Lub lauded this new chumerah,
despite it coming with new risks.) And so he justified chassidim of his
generation following a new hanhagah that the Besht did not. (We discuss
this teshuvah annually.)

The question I asked is based on the fact that toasted flour doesn't
become chameitz. And by simple physics, we expect that if dough,
a huge lump, can bake through, then of course we would have completed
the toasting of the same chemicals present in fine powder form, like
any dry unkneaded flour within the dough.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Today is the 19th day, which is
mi...@aishdas.org        2 weeks and 5 days in/toward the omer.
http://www.aishdas.org   Hod sheb'Tifferes: When does harmony promote
Fax: (270) 514-1507                         withdrawal and submission?

On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 10:03:15PM -0400, Akiva Miller via Avodah wrote:
:> BTW, if I had to guess, it would depend on whether people are
:> indeed motivated by a consciencous following of family customs
:> and the perspective on Torah that comes with their subculture.
:> And how much is simple ethnic pride and the actual identification
:> with Litvaks or Hungarians or Yekkes, Mughrabi or Halbi than
:> identification with the Jewish People, or shomerei Torah umitzvos
:> as self-identifications.

: That's an excellent analysis, until we ask which side of the aisle the
: MB and AhS were on.

: By insisting that the whole shul should do the same thing, aren't they
: putting the main emphasis on family customs, their own subculture,
: ethnic pride, and subgroup identification -- with LESS emphasis on
: identification with the Jewish People and shomerei Torah umitzvos? ...

I don't see how they are. If someone says there should be a single pesaq
for a location and the shul could be consistent is talking about unity.
Not about whether our community's minhagim are better or worse than those
of another community -- they aren't present to suggest we're comparing.

I was contrasting two different motives for breaking that unity:

The first archetype is the one who does so because he takes more
self-identity from his Litvisher (eg) ancestry than in being in part of
the observant community, or Jewish community in general.

The second is the one who is motivated by the logic of the pesaq or
the hashkafah payoff. Such as someone who is "into" qabbalah for whom
"qotzeitz bintiyos" means something and motivates not feeling happy in
tefillin on ch"m.

I was suggesting that lo sisgodedu only rules out the first motivation,
not the second.

But the acharon who promotes everyone following one practice isn't a
question of whether their motivation is more important than lo sisgodedu
to begin with.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Today is the 19th day, which is
mi...@aishdas.org        2 weeks and 5 days in/toward the omer.
http://www.aishdas.org   Hod sheb'Tifferes: When does harmony promote
Fax: (270) 514-1507                         withdrawal and submission?

 Rich, Joel <JR...@sibson.com> wrote:
> 
>  
> From AudioRoundup at Torah Musings:
> http://www.yutorah.org/lectures/lecture.cfm/864540/rabbi-
> aryeh-lebowitz/from-the-rabbis-desk-sous-vide-cooking-for-shabbos-(and
> -through-shabbos)/
> Rabbi Aryeh Lebowitz-From The Rabbi?s Desk ? Sous Vide Cooking For Shabbos (and Through Shabbos)
> Sous vide cooking (another thing we?ve lived without but now sounds
> like it will be the next sushi). If you do it for, or over Shabbat, is
> there an issue of hatmana or shehiya?
>  
>  
> FWIW the hashkafa at the end of R?Asher Weiss?s tshuva is well worth thinking about ? we seem to live in an age where any sacrifice is difficult.
>  
> KT
> Joel Rich


R Joel, yes indeed. I got the Tshuva from R Aryeh :-)

The other question is why does Halacha entail sacrifice. IF it's
halachically sound it may be a hiddur! I know we have it on Tuesdays and
everyone loves it. It is a superior form of cooking. If it's NOT Hatmono
then why (if one has the implement) would one not use it. I find that a
Hungarian Posek approach in general.

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Can anyone quickly tell me if DL or MO shuls are saying tachanun on Monday besides Hallel on tues

Sent from my iPhone

Young Israel century city holds both kulot. No tachanun Monday. Hallel
Tues. Curious how most chul shuls do it. .I expect most follow israel

On 5/1/2017 2:34 AM, saul newman via Avodah wrote:
> Can anyone quickly tell me if DL or MO shuls are saying tachanun on 
> Monday besides Hallel on tues

Mine didn't and that was my experience in other shuls as well.
The Tfilion app doesn't have Tachanun (but does have an added chapter of 
Tehillim for the fallen).

Ben

On Monday, May 1, 2017 6:02 AM, saul newman wrote:
> Can anyone quickly tell me if DL or MO shuls are saying tachanun on
> Monday besides Hallel on tues

Rav Ahron considered Hey Iyar to be Yom Ha'atzmaut and the day that
Hallel (without a Bracha) is said and Tachanun is not said -- regardless
of when Israel celebrates it (for whatever reason it may be delayed). I
(and Yeshivas Brisk) did not say Tachanun at Mincha yesterday (Erev Yom
Tov) nor today at Shacharis... nor will I say it at Mincha. I will say
it tomorrow.

HM
Want Emes and Emunah in your life? Try this: http://haemtza.blogspot.com/ 


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