Avodah Mailing List

Volume 35: Number 19

Fri, 10 Feb 2017

1. "Mikvah: Splish Splash Is It a Jewish Bath?" (Prof. Levine)
2. Re: Going to a Hotel for Shabbos/Yomtov (Arie Folger)
3. The Rabbi, the Rebbe, and the Messiah (Professor L. Levine)
4. Halachically Speaking ? Hair Dyeing (Professor L. Levine)
5. Tu B'Shevat Seder (Professor L. Levine)
6. Re: Tu B'Shevat Seder (Prof. Levine)
7. Re: Tu B'Shevat Seder (Saul Guberman)
8. Re: Tu B'Shevat Seder (Micha Berger)
9. Re: The Rabbi, the Rebbe, and the Messiah (Micha Berger)
10. Re: The Rabbi, the Rebbe, and the Messiah (Prof. Levine)

Message: 1
From: Prof. Levine
Date: Thu, 09 Feb 2017 13:17:18 -0500
Subject: [Avodah] "Mikvah: Splish Splash Is It a Jewish Bath?"


For a sensitive and tasteful video about keeping taharas hamishpacha 
please see the video at

http://tinyurl.com/za9xq9f

I think that most women will find it informative and interesting.

YL

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Message: 2
From: Arie Folger
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2017 14:47:30 +0100
Subject: Re: [Avodah] Going to a Hotel for Shabbos/Yomtov

On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 7:31 PM, Arie Folger <arie.fol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It is actually my understanding that the OU has been using something I
> believe is called called artificial DNA for at least a decade. I am basing
> this on the fact that said technology was demonstrated to us RCA rabbis at
> the RCA convention, back in 2006. Can someone ascertain the facts here,
> please?

On Feb 9, 2017 2:34 PM, "Meir Rabi" <meir...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
> V interesting
> and astonishing
> what would make the artificial DNA superior to HKBH's?

I am not sure how it world's, but I think that the idea is to have an
easily scannable, code-able and harmless chemical injected in part of the
carcass, to be used as a high tech fraud proof "bar code." I didn't check
the teckel or in detail and may be reporting some of it incorrectly.

I am including RDr Seth Mandel from the OU, who may tell us more.

--
Mit freundlichen Gren,
Yours sincerely,

Arie Folger
Check out my blog: http://rabbifolger.net

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Message: 3
From: Professor L. Levine
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2017 12:49:34 +0000
Subject: [Avodah] The Rabbi, the Rebbe, and the Messiah


The article with this title at


http://seforim.blogspot.com/2017/02/the-rabbi-rebbe-and-messiah.html


is not primarily about RMMS.  It focuses on another rebbe who some thought
to be the messiah. The article is long and scholarly and well worth the
read, IMO.  The second paragraph of this article is


"Messiahship was a chasidic and mystical phenomenon, with chasidic rebbes;
R' Yisrael Ba'al Shem Tov[2], R' David of Tulna[3], R' Yisrael of
Ruzhin[4], R' Nachman of Breslov[5], R' Yitzchak Isaac Safrin of
Komarna[6], R' David Moshe of Chortkov[7], and mystics; R' Chaim Vital[8],
R' Chaim ibn Attar[9], R' Moshe Chaim Luzzato[10], Shukar Kuchayil I[11],
and Shukar Kuchayil II[12], and more recently Yisrael Dov Odesser[13], all
being labeled one way or another as the Messiah[14].  Despite the
characterization of these individuals as the Messiah, most lived on without
any scandal associated with the eschatological attribution.  There is one
instance however, which unfortunately did cause a great uproar.  I refer to
you the case of R' Menachem Mendel Hagar, the scion of the Vizhnitz
chasidic dynasty, and the Transylvanian town of Borsa."


Please see the above URL for much more about a chapter in Jewish history
that I was not at all aware of.  And, of course,  after the entire incident
there was an attempt to suppress knowledge of it just as there was after
the Shabbatai Tzvi affair.


YL
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Message: 4
From: Professor L. Levine
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2017 14:15:35 +0000
Subject: [Avodah] Halachically Speaking ? Hair Dyeing

The article dealing with this subject is at

http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-s
tories/363036/hair-dyeing.html

Although it is dated a year ago, it contains in formation that I and I presume many others was not aware of. The following is a sample

Shidduch

A male who is in shidduchim might wish to dye some white hair so as not to
alarm the potential girl he is dating. Is this permitted? Many poskim
permit this practice since his purpose is to improve his chance for
marriage, not for beautification.[60]<http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-bre
aking-stories/363036/hair-dyeing.html#_ftn60> This is borne out by
the fact that he did not wish to do this before his was in
shidduchim.[61]<http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-bre
aking-stories/363036/hair-dyeing.html#_ftn61>

Others point out that his goal is not to dye his hair to look young, as he
actually is young.[62]<http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-bre
aking-stories/363036/hair-dyeing.html#_ftn62> This may be even
considered as a refuah since not getting married because of his white hair
will cause agmas nefesh.[63]<http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-bre
aking-stories/363036/hair-dyeing.html#_ftn63> There is no geneivas
daas by dyeing his hair, since it is normal that men his age have black
hair.[64]<http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-bre
aking-stories/363036/hair-dyeing.html#_ftn64>

However, others say that his intent is to look younger, in which case
dyeing one hair would not be allowed. Others say that it can be done
through a non-Jew.[65]<http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-bre
aking-stories/363036/hair-dyeing.html#_ftn65>

Another option is to shave off the white area[66]<http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-bre
aking-stories/363036/hair-dyeing.html#_ftn66> (if it is a small area
and one will not look odd by doing so).

Due to the different opinions one who has this question should consult with his Rav

- See more at: http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news
/headlines-breaking-stories/363036/hair-dyeing.html#sthash.6ak7DuMT.dpuf

Shidduch

Due to the different opinions one who has this question should consult with his Rav

- See more at: http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news
/headlines-breaking-stories/363036/hair-dyeing.html#sthash.6ak7DuMT.dpuf

Shidduch

Due to the different opinions one who has this question should consult with his Rav

- See more at: http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news
/headlines-breaking-stories/363036/hair-dyeing.html#sthash.6ak7DuMT.dpuf

A male who is in shidduchim might wish to dye some white hair so as not to alarm the potential girl he is dating. Is this permitted?

A--Many poskim permit this practice since his purpose is to improve his
chance for marriage, not for beautification. (60) This is borne out by the
fact that he did not wish to do this before his was in shidduchim. (61)
Others point out that his goal is not to dye his hair to look young, as he
actually is young. (62) This may be even considered as a refuah since not
getting married because of his white hair will cause agmas nefesh. (63)
There is no geneivas daas by dyeing his hair, since it is normal that men
his age have black hair. (64) However, others say that his intent is to
look younger, in which case dyeing one's hair would not be allowed. Others
say that it can be done through a non-Jew. (65) Another option is to shave
off the white area (66) (if it is a small area and one will not look odd by
doing so). Due to the different opinions one who has this question should
consult with his Rav. (67)

60. Refer to Igros Moshe Y.D. 2:61, Beer Moshe 8:8 pages 19-21, Yaskil Avdi
O.C. 8:17:6, Divrei Pinchas 53, Shemesh U???mugen Y.D. 19, Oles Yitzchak
2:161, Yided Hashem 2.

61. Ohr Hameir 26:page 146.

62. Others are not convinced that this is correct since who said because of
the dyeing to black he will get married? maybe it is another reason and
maybe someone will marry him with white hair (V???yan Dovid 1:124). See
Ashrei Haish Y.D. 1:page 145:19.

63. Asei Lecha Rav 2:50, Ohr Hameir 25:pages 143-147.

64. Asei Lecha Rav 2:50.

65. Ohr Hameir 26:pages 143-147.

66. Shevet Halevi 3:111:3.

67. Harav Yisroel Belsky Shlita in Shulchan Halevi 1:pages 146-147.

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Message: 5
From: Professor L. Levine
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2017 15:47:34 +0000
Subject: [Avodah] Tu B'Shevat Seder

I have a cousin by marriage who makes a Tu B'Shevat seder every year. I do not know if he follows the directions at

http://tinyurl.com/j3utd4l

or at

http://tinyurl.com/zcdxdxd

However, today's OU Halacha Yomis makes no mention of a Tu B'Shevat seder. Should one presume that the OU is not into kabbala? YL

Q. This coming Shabbos is Tu B'Shevat. Are there any special minhagim to be practiced in honor of Tu B'Shevat?

A. The Magen Avrohom (131:16) writes that there is a minhag on Tu B'Shevat
to eat many varieties of fruit. Some poskim write that one should
especially eat the fruit of the species with which the land of Israel was
blessed (grapes, figs, dates, olives, and pomegranates) [Yalkut Yosef -
Minhagei Tu B'Shevat]. The Bnei Yisaschar (Ma'amer Chodesh Shevat) writes
that there is a minhag to daven on Tu B'Shevat that one should merit a
kosher and beautiful esrog. Piskei Teshuvos (288:7) writes that such a
tefilah may even be said on Shabbos. However, one who sells esrogim should
not say this tefilah on Shabbos, since his concern is for success in
business and it is inappropriate to pray for one's business dealings on
Shabbos.

Some have the minhag to eat esrog jam on Tu B'Shevat. Mishnah Berurah
(225:16) writes that one does not recite the bracha of shehechiyanu, even
if one has not eaten an esrog this season. Since the esrog can live on the
tree the entire year, it does not have a specific season.

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Message: 6
From: Prof. Levine
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2017 11:36:21 -0500
Subject: Re: [Avodah] Tu B'Shevat Seder

At 11:19 AM 2/10/2017, Saul Guberman wrote:
>You are welcome to come the the seder at Yavneh Minyan of Flatbush 
>(Veretsky Yeshiva at 4:35).  We have it during seudah 3.  Our seder 
>is a combo of the 2 you list below.  The main change that we have is 
>that we wash first so that we start eating before shkiah.
>Saul

Thanks for the invite,  but I cannot walk that far when the whether 
is nice,  let alone in the ice and snow.  In fact,  my wife just 
called me from Ave J saying that I should not go to shul at all on 
Shabbos.  Many homes and some businesses have not shoveled.

Perhaps you should think about not going also.

I am a bit surprised that the Yavneh Minyan makes this seder.  I 
asked a couple of my Chassidic friends if they make one, and the 
answer was "No."

I looked at the minyan's Mission Statement at 
http://www.yavnehminyan.org/mission_statement.shtml  I note the last 
item, namely,

With the guidance of our Rabbi, develop practices unique and 
appropriate to the Minyan. Towards the goal of Ahavat Yisrael, we 
respect all others, whose traditions we may not follow.

Is a Tu B'Shevat Seder one of these practices?

YL

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Message: 7
From: Saul Guberman
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2017 11:19:00 -0500
Subject: Re: [Avodah] Tu B'Shevat Seder

You are welcome to come the the seder at Yavneh Minyan of Flatbush
(Veretsky Yeshiva at 4:35).  We have it during seudah 3.  Our seder is a
combo of the 2 you list below.  The main change that we have is that we
wash first so that we start eating before shkiah.
Saul

On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 10:47 AM, Professor L. Levine via Avodah <
avo...@lists.aishdas.org> wrote:

> I have a cousin by marriage who makes a Tu B'Shevat seder every year.   I
> do not know if  he follows the directions at
>
> http://tinyurl.com/j3utd4l
>
> or at
>
> http://tinyurl.com/zcdxdxd
>
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Message: 8
From: Micha Berger
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2017 12:35:50 -0500
Subject: Re: [Avodah] Tu B'Shevat Seder


On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 03:47:34PM +0000, Professor L. Levine via Avodah wrote:
: However, today's OU Halacha Yomis makes no mention of a Tu B'Shevat
: seder. Should one presume that the OU is not into kabbala?

While many Sepharadim and some Chassidic groups (not to mention MO
Neo-Chassidim and lehavdil Jewish Renewal types) did adopt the Tu biShevat
Seder, the Gra and many Chassidic groups actively rejected. So it needn't
be about being "into" Qabbalah or not.

As mentioned possibly annually when discussing saying leDavid 2x a day
after tefillah during Elul, both that variant of the leDavid minhag and
the entire concept of Tu biShevat Seder originate in Chemdas Yamim.

See the discussion at http://www.torahmusings.com/2012/09/chemdas-yamim
http://seforim.blogspot.com/2006/02/is-tu-beshevat-sabbatian-holiday.
html

The Gra and many Chassidishe Rabbeim are convinced that Chemdas Yamim.
As is the "orthodox" position in academia, with many convinced the author
was Nasan ha'Ezati (Nathan of Gaza, the "Eliyahu" figure to Shabbatai's
mashiach) himself.

Without this questionable source, the MA gives the extent of Qabbalistic
Tu biShevat.

: A. The Magen Avrohom (131:16) writes that there is a minhag on Tu
: B'Shevat to eat many varieties of fruit. Some poskim write that one
: should especially eat the fruit of the species with which the land of
: Israel was blessed (grapes, figs, dates, olives, and pomegranates)
: [Yalkut Yosef - Minhagei Tu B'Shevat]...
: Some have the minhag to eat esrog jam on Tu B'Shevat.

:-)BBii!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             A pious Jew is not one who worries about his fellow
mi...@aishdas.org        man's soul and his own stomach; a pious Jew worries
http://www.aishdas.org   about his own soul and his fellow man's stomach.
Fax: (270) 514-1507                       - Rav Yisrael Salanter

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Message: 9
From: Micha Berger
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2017 12:23:50 -0500
Subject: Re: [Avodah] The Rabbi, the Rebbe, and the Messiah


On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 12:49:34PM +0000, Professor L. Levine via Avodah wrote:
: http://seforim.blogspot.com/2017/02/the-rabbi-rebbe-and-messiah.html
...
: "Messiahship was a chasidic and mystical phenomenon, with chasidic
: rebbes; ... R' Nachman of Breslov[5]...

When I was young enough to still sit next to my father in shul (and I
have been married for 30 years), and thus in front of R/Dr David Berger,
he and I discussed this particular case. (Before and after davening, of
course -- don't be chosheid he would speak mid-davening!) But given 11
other historical examples (response to RYDOdesser is still not a closed
book) my point is yet stronger.

Given that Chassidic Messianism of this sort routinely dies down, why
is he so worried about how RMMS was being remembered?

Even if he remains convinced they are violating the 12 iqar emunah,
and thus requiring a macha'ah, he should be expecting a short-lived
phenomenon.

I did not retain his reply.

:-)BBii!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             If you're going through hell
mi...@aishdas.org        keep going.
http://www.aishdas.org                   - Winston Churchill
Fax: (270) 514-1507

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Message: 10
From: Prof. Levine
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2017 13:09:38 -0500
Subject: Re: [Avodah] The Rabbi, the Rebbe, and the Messiah


At 12:23 PM 2/10/2017, Micha Berger wrote:
>Given that Chassidic Messianism of this sort routinely dies down, why
>is he so worried about how RMMS was being remembered?

There is a huge difference between the world of today and when these 
others were considered moshiach.  The difference is 
technology.  There are literally hundreds of videos of RMMS 
available,  and I think that these keep him "alive" for his 
followers.  He won't be forgotten in the way the others were,  and 
hence,  IMO,  there is more to worry about.

Are there not still many Chabadniks who wear Y'chi yarmulkas?

YL 



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