Volume 34: Number 62
Mon, 30 May 2016
Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
Message: 1
From: Eli Turkel
Date: Thu, 26 May 2016 21:32:43 +0300
Subject: [Avodah] rights of adopted parents
> For example, there are debates about yichud and how to call the son to
the Torah
There's not much debate about yichud -- almost everyone says it's forbidden.
Certainly in Chabad there's no debate at all; the Rebbe paskened that it's
forbidden, and that's that. >>
Saying that almost everyone says it forbidden is an exaggeration.
Rav Moshe Feinstein (*Teshuvot Igrot Moshe *E.H.4:64:2), Rav Eliezer
Waldenburg (*Teshuvot Tzitz Eliezer*6:40:21), and Rav Chaim David
Halevi (*Teshuvot
Asei Lecha Rav *3:39) all rule that adoptive parents are permitted to
engage in Yichud with their adopted children since the Yetzer Hara is not
interested in such situations. Rav Ovadia Yosef (see *Yalkut Yosef*,
Kitzur Shulchan Aruch p.975) is essentially lenient about this issue,
though he believes that it is preferable to adopt a girl so that the wife
who is home most of the time can shield her husband from Yichud.
http://koltorah.org/ravj/The%20Yichud%20Prohibition%20-%20Part%201.htm
The article does bring other poskim including the LR who were strict.
Rav Jachter's conclusion is: Obviously, anyone to whom this issue is
relevant should consult his Rav for a ruling.
--
Eli Turkel
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Message: 2
From: Micha Berger
Date: Thu, 26 May 2016 17:42:23 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] Chametz and Matzah
On Sun, May 22, 2016 at 07:12:19PM -0400, Akiva Miller via Avodah wrote:
: This thread is not about the details of that rule, but its source. The
: gemara there bases it on Devarim 16:3:
:> Lo sochal alav chametz
:> Shiv'as yamim tochal matzos
:> Do not eat chametz with it
:> For seven days you will eat matzos
: Unfortunately, I don't see any logical connection between the two phrases.
But this is derashah, not sevara.
: .... Why should we resort to a lomdishe
: juxtaposition of phrases, when the Torah explicitly defines the words for
: us? The pasuk I'm referring to is Shmos 12:39:
:> Vayofu es habatzek asher hotziu mimitzrayim ugos matzos
:> Ki lo chametz
:> Ki gorshu mimitzrayim v'lo yachlu l'hismameah
:> They baked the dough that they took out of Egypt into loaves of matza
:> Because it did not become chametz
:> Because they were expelled from Egypt and couldn't delay
: Isn't the definition clear? "It became matza because it did not become
: chometz." Matzah is what you get when you take something that *could*
: become chometz, but you bake it before it gets to that point.
Except that this is a historical statement, descriptive, not prescritive.
Their wheat dough was matzah because it happened not to become chameitz
-- for reasons the pasuq wants us to notice. Teshu'as H' keheref ayin.
And peshat is a pasuq in chumash like in all of Tanakh is more concerned
with Mussar than halakhah. It's not a halakhah book at the expense of
being a Mussar book. As they say about ayin tachas ayin, peshat is values,
derashah exists to provide the halakhah givien the mapping of those
values to a limited reality and limited humans.
But does that "ki" mean that the lack of becoming chameitz is a defining
feature? Maybe a lack of sirchon would also be good lehalakhah, but
didn't come up. (Given how much more available wheat was in Egypt.)
"Ki" could refer to sufficient cause, you are assuming the pasuq means
necessary cause.
Tir'u baTov!
-Micha
--
Micha Berger Today is the 33rd day, which is
mi...@aishdas.org 4 weeks and 5 days in/toward the omer.
http://www.aishdas.org Hod sheb'Hod: LAG B'OMER - What is total
Fax: (270) 514-1507 submission to truth, and what results?
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Message: 3
From: Zev Sero
Date: Thu, 26 May 2016 22:23:15 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] rights of adopted parents
On 05/26/2016 02:32 PM, Eli Turkel via Avodah wrote:
>> For example, there are debates about yichud and how to call the son to the Torah
>
> There's not much debate about yichud -- almost everyone says it's forbidden.
> Certainly in Chabad there's no debate at all; the Rebbe paskened that it's
> forbidden, and that's that. >>
>
> Saying that almost everyone says it forbidden is an exaggeration.
No, it isn't. See the list in the previously cited article (I think you
were the one who cited it). RMF is one of the very few who permit it.
--
Zev Sero Meaningless combinations of words do not acquire
z...@sero.name meaning merely by appending them to the two other
words `God can'. Nonsense remains nonsense, even
when we talk it about God. -- C S Lewis
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Message: 4
From: Aryeh Frimer
Date: Fri, 27 May 2016 11:13:32 +0000
Subject: [Avodah] Does a Bat Mitsva girl continue counting during
In a previous post I posited that it would be assur [berakha
le-vatala] for a Bat Mitsva Girl to count sefirat ha-omer with a
Berakha after her Bat Mitsva. The reason is that her counting before
Bat Mitzva was totally voluntary with no obligation of Hinnukh,
since it is a mitzvat Aseh she-hazeman geramman (a time determined
mitzva).
RMH wrote me off-net as follows: "While understanding that she
wasn't Chayiv m'Shum Chinuch, she's also not Chayiv post Bat Mitzvah,
and never will be Chayav. In future years she'll make a Bracha
despite not being Chayav according to Ashkinaz Minhag. What stands
distinct, as I hear you frame it, is that her non-Chayiv status
before and after are distinct statuses which have fundamentally
shifted in parallel with the way the shift happens between Chinuch
and Chiyuv for a boy. But why make that assumption in the first
place? Why not assume that "not Chayav" is "not Chayav", period.
It's only one category. Of what relevance to the status of "not
Chayav" is the particular events that brought someone to that
status?"
To this I responded: IMHO, there is a fundamental misunderstanding
here regarding a women's recitation of berakhot on Misvot asei
she-hazeman geramman (time determined commandments). As explained by
Tosafot (Tosafot, Eruvin 96a-b, s.v. "dilma.") and Rabbenu Nissim
[Hiddushei haRan, Rosh haShana 33a; Ran on Rif, Rosh haShana 33a; Ran
on Rif, Kiddushin 31a. ] a woman can make such a berakha because
although it is voluntary there is a kiyyum haMitsva (proper
fulfillment of the mitsvah) and she receives heavenly reward.
Accordingly, she may also pronounce the attendant berakhot. See: at
length, R. Israel Zev Gustman, Kuntresei Shiurim, Kiddushin, shiur
20; R. Joseph B. Soloveitchik, cited in R. Hayyim Dov Altuski's
Hiddushei Batra, haMasbir, Berakhot 14a, sec. 134. If, however, she
does not have the status of a full count, then according to major
shitot there is a serious doubt as to whether there is a kiyyum and
no berakha can be said. One cannot "volunteer" a bera
kha levatala - and so it will be if there is no kiyyum.
--------------------------------------------------
Prof. Aryeh A. Frimer
Chemistry Dept., Bar-Ilan University
Ramat Gan 5290002, ISRAEL
E-mail (office): Aryeh.Fri...@biu.ac.il
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Message: 5
From: Aryeh Frimer
Date: Fri, 27 May 2016 13:21:18 +0000
Subject: [Avodah] Rav Asher Weiss Re: Does a Bat Mitsva girl continue
Despite what I wrote two hours ago, I was just notified by my Brother Dov
that he discussed the issue with Rav Asher Weiss Shlita last night at his
Thursday night Shiur in Har Nof Jerusalem. Rav Asher holds that as long
as there is continuity, the girl can continue counting with a berakha after
her bat Mitsva.
Yiyasher Kochacha and Shabbat Shalom
Aryeh
--------------------------------------------------
Chemistry Dept., Bar-Ilan University
Ramat Gan 5290002, ISRAEL
E-mail (office): Aryeh.Fri...@biu.ac.il
________________________________
From: Aryeh Frimer
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2016 2:13 PM
To: avo...@lists.aishdas.org
Subject: Does a Bat Mitsva girl continue counting during Sefira
In a previous post I posited that it would be assur [berakha
le-vatala] for a Bat Mitsva Girl to count sefirat ha-omer with a
Berakha after her Bat Mitsva. The reason is that her counting before
Bat Mitzva was totally voluntary with no obligation of Hinnukh,
since it is a mitzvat Aseh she-hazeman geramman (a time determined
mitzva).
RMH wrote me off-net as follows: "While understanding that she
wasn't Chayiv m'Shum Chinuch, she's also not Chayiv post Bat Mitzvah,
and never will be Chayav. In future years she'll make a Bracha
despite not being Chayav according to Ashkinaz Minhag. What stands
distinct, as I hear you frame it, is that her non-Chayiv status
before and after are distinct statuses which have fundamentally
shifted in parallel with the way the shift happens between Chinuch
and Chiyuv for a boy. But why make that assumption in the first
place? Why not assume that "not Chayav" is "not Chayav", period.
It's only one category. Of what relevance to the status of "not
Chayav" is the particular events that brought someone to that
status?"
To this I responded: IMHO, there is a fundamental misunderstanding
here regarding a women's recitation of berakhot on Misvot asei
she-hazeman geramman (time determined commandments). As explained by
Tosafot (Tosafot, Eruvin 96a-b, s.v. "dilma.") and Rabbenu Nissim
[Hiddushei haRan, Rosh haShana 33a; Ran on Rif, Rosh haShana 33a; Ran
on Rif, Kiddushin 31a. ] a woman can make such a berakha because
although it is voluntary there is a kiyyum haMitsva (proper
fulfillment of the mitsvah) and she receives heavenly reward.
Accordingly, she may also pronounce the attendant berakhot. See: at
length, R. Israel Zev Gustman, Kuntresei Shiurim, Kiddushin, shiur
20; R. Joseph B. Soloveitchik, cited in R. Hayyim Dov Altuski's
Hiddushei Batra, haMasbir, Berakhot 14a, sec. 134. If, however, she
does not have the status of a full count, then according to major
shitot there is a serious doubt as to whether there is a kiyyum and
no berakha can be said. One cannot "volunteer" a bera
kha levatala - and so it will be if there is no kiyyum.
--------------------------------------------------
Prof. Aryeh A. Frimer
Chemistry Dept., Bar-Ilan University
Ramat Gan 5290002, ISRAEL
E-mail (office): Aryeh.Fri...@biu.ac.il
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Message: 6
From: Sholom Simon
Date: Fri, 27 May 2016 11:44:39 -0400
Subject: [Avodah] Emor -- Lechem Elokim
Off line conversation that I'm belatedly moving to Avodah:
I asked:
Starting at 21:6 (then 21:8, and etc etc.) the phrase "lechem Elokim"
is used a number of times. Onkelos translates lechem as korban each
time -- which is exactly what one would guess. While my Hebrew isn't
great, I couldn't find a single mention of this in my Mikraos G'dolos
(just about every mention of that pasuk talks about the first part of
the pasuk, about forcing a Kohen to give a get). Perhaps it's just
so obvious that lechem means korban here, that it's literally unremarkable.
But, still, the use of the word "lechem" seems odd to me. It's as if
the Torah is going out of its way to make things sound _more_
anthropomorphic, more primitive, than it needs to. (Granted -- now
that I think about it, the phrase "rayach nichoach" also seems
gratuitously anthropomorphic -- but: (a) there is some commentary on
that phrase; and (b) perhaps we hear "rayach nichoach" so often we're
just used to it.)
Does anybody have any thoughts on why the Torah, after using the
words "korban" or "olah" this entire Sefer, suddenly switches to
"lechem" in this perek?
R Seth Mandel answered:
: From a linguistic point of view, I do not consider the usage remarkable.
: This is the House of HQBH, and the qorbanot are His Daily Portion.
: The use of the word lechem to describe "portion/allotment" I consider
: a perfectly normal, if poetic, term.
R MIcha Berger responded:
... It would be interesting to confirm this... Does anyone associate
Vayiqra 21 with qorbanos that are forced by the calendar, to the exclusion
of chatas, asham, todah, etc...? Does qedushas kohanim have more to do
with such qorbanos than others? (And if so, does this relate to which
qorbanos were allowed on bamos back in the days of bamos?)
Anyone else have any thoughts?
(It was also pointed out to me that "lechem" always went with
"Elokim", and "rayach nichoach" always went with YKVK. Is this
significant at all?)
-- Sholom
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Message: 7
From: Zev Sero
Date: Fri, 27 May 2016 12:11:17 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] Emor -- Lechem Elokim
On 05/27/2016 11:44 AM, Sholom Simon via Avodah wrote:
>
> (It was also pointed out to me that "lechem" always went with
> "Elokim", and "rayach nichoach" always went with YKVK. Is this
> significant at all?)
We say twice a day "Vaydaber YKVK ... es korboni *lachmi* le'ishai,
rei'ach nichochi".
--
Zev Sero Meaningless combinations of words do not acquire
z...@sero.name meaning merely by appending them to the two other
words `God can'. Nonsense remains nonsense, even
when we talk it about God. -- C S Lewis
Go to top.
Message: 8
From: Micha Berger
Date: Fri, 27 May 2016 14:52:44 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] modim
On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 03:48:27AM +0000, Joshua Waxman via Avodah wrote:
: That is, given that techiyat hameitim is from the luz bone, which is
: located atthe end of the spinal column, could the gemara be taken,
: allegorically, to mean that those people won't be resurrected?
Teaser for my post
<http://www.aishdas.org/asp/but-name-of-city-was-luz-originally>
But the name of the city was "Luz" originally
by micha ? [15 Kislev '765] - Fri, Dec 16, 2005
And he [Ya'aqov] called the name of that place Beis-el, but the name
of the city was Luz originally.
- Bereishis 28:19
Luz, the original name for Beis-el, is apparently the name of a kind of
tree, usually translated "chestnut". It's one of the kinds of wood from
which Ya'aqov avinu made sticks for the sheep and goats to look at...
Bereishis Rabba (69:8) discusses the amazing properties of living in
the city of Luz:
* They always told the truth.
* No one in the city died. When people got old and tired, they needed
to move out for nature to take its course.
* The city was never conquered by Sancheirev, and wasn't destroyed by
Nevuchadnetzar at the end of the first commonwealth...
Luz is also the name of a special bone in the body, where the skull and
spine meet. Two medrashim associate the luz bone with Hadrian y"sh....
Luz seems particularly connected with Yaiaqov, the one who renames it.
First, his service of G-d centers around emes, truth, the middah
exemplified by the citizens of Luz. He uses the luz sticks...
...
The mishnah says "derekh eretz qodmah laTorah -- proper behavior in
society is a prerequisite to Torah." Our aggaditos and midrashim seem
to converge on underscoring that point. Luz is the city of truth, it
has the permanence of truth both territorially and in the lifespans of
its inhabitants. And it's truth, the personality trait about which
Yaiaqov centers his service of Hashem, which determines techiyas
hameisim. All of these medrashim refer to Luz, to the trait. When
referring to applying the pursuit of truth to Torah study or
worshipping Hashem, then we progress from Luz to Beis-el.
The stick shows the influence of environment...
The bone luz is situated just where the mind connects to the body. It
is therefore, in a very real sense, "beis keil", G-d's "home" in this
world. Ya'aqov builds a circle of stones in which to sleep at this
spot, which -- as R' Hirsch notes ad loc -- is the first home of
Israel. He gets a vision of a ladder between heaven and earth, an
externalized luz bone between mind and body.
Once one has the foundation of "Luz", one has the proper personality
and attitude to provide some solidity in time and in social context.
Then one is capable of building that derekh eretz into Torah, making
their soul a house of G-d.
:-)BBii!
-Micha
--
Micha Berger Today is the 34th day, which is
mi...@aishdas.org 4 weeks and 6 days in/toward the omer.
http://www.aishdas.org Yesod sheb'Hod: How does submission result in
Fax: (270) 514-1507 and maintain a stable relationship?
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Message: 9
From: Micha Berger
Date: Sun, 29 May 2016 08:36:38 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] rights of adopted parents
On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 10:23:15PM -0400, Zev Sero via Avodah wrote:
:>> There's not much debate about yichud -- almost everyone says it's forbidden.
:>> Certainly in Chabad there's no debate at all; the Rebbe paskened that it's
:>> forbidden, and that's that.
:> Saying that almost everyone says it forbidden is an exaggeration.
: No, it isn't. See the list in the previously cited article (I think you
: were the one who cited it). RMF is one of the very few who permit it.
OTOH, given the size of the observant American community loyal to RMF's
pesaqim, anything he says can't simply be dismissed as "rare" either.
RYBS was meiqil as well.
And, FWIW, was R' Zvi Flaum, a talmid of R' Dovid Lifshitz's - now RY of
Shaarei Tzion, oour LOR back when we adopted and the question first arose.
I am also curious... RMMS pasqened? Didn't he generally delegate that
role to others, leaving himself as head mashpia / moreh derekh, rather
than moreh hora'ah?
Did this somehow become an emotionally charged machloqes, like eruv for
some reason tends to?
Tir'u baTov!
-Micha
--
Micha Berger Today is the 36th day, which is
mi...@aishdas.org 5 weeks and 1 day in/toward the omer.
http://www.aishdas.org Chesed sheb'Yesod: What is the kindness in
Fax: (270) 514-1507 being a stable and reliable partner?
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Message: 10
From: Saul Mashbaum
Date: Mon, 30 May 2016 15:25:35 +0300
Subject: Re: [Avodah] Does Bat Mitsva girl continue counting during
R. Aryeh Frimer posits that a girl who becomes Bat Mizva during
sefira should not continue counting with a bracha after becoming bat
mitzva, since, unlike a boy, she had no mitzva to count as a minor
because of chinuch.
I find this very counterintuitive; on the contrary, it seems to me
that a girl has more reason to continue counting with a bracha than a
boy.
A boy upon becoming bar-mitzva during sefira goes from a status of
non-chiyuv (obligation) to chiyuv; one may question whether what he
counted in a state of non-chiyuv "counts" when he enters a state of
chiyuv. On this point, some poskim say that there was a chiyuv all
along, at least rabbinically, so no fundamental change took place;
some disagree. A girl, on the other hand, has no chiyuv either before
or after her bar mitzva; in this respect, nothing changed at all when
she became bat mitzva. Thus, if the girl has been making a bracha on
sefira throughout the sefira period, in keeping with Ashkenazi
practice, it seems to me that she should continue to make a bracha on
sefira after becoming bat mitzva.
Saul Mashbaum
------------------------------
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