Avodah Mailing List

Volume 33: Number 132

Mon, 12 Oct 2015

• 1. Re: Cancel Simchas Torah! (Micha Berger)
• 2. Teshuvah - Menoras HaMaOr (Rabbi Meir G. Rabi)
• 3. THE MISSING "VOV" (Sholom Simon)
• 4. Re: Cancel Simchas Torah! (Ben Waxman)
• 5. Re: Cancel Simchas Torah! (Zev Sero)
• 6. Re: Cancel Simchas Torah! (Zev Sero)
• 7. Re: Cancel Simchas Torah! (Prof. Levine)
• 8. Re: Cancel Simchas Torah! (Prof. Levine)
• 9. Re: Cancel Simchas Torah! (Zev Sero)
• 10. Re: THE MISSING "VOV" (Micha Berger)
• 11. RYBS on the moon (Eli Turkel)
• 12. Re: Sefer Recommendation for Sukkot? (Ken Bloom)
• 13. Re: Sefer Recommendation for Sukkot? (Mordechai Harris)
• 14. Re: Sefer Recommendation for Sukkot? (Shui Haber)

On Fri, Oct 09, 2015 at 04:49:19AM -0400, Prof. Levine via Avodah wrote:
: IMO ST has no place in EY.  The Torah in EY was originally read
: according to a 3 or 3.5 year cycle...

I thought it was a 3 yr cycle from Shavuos to the third Shavu'os after.

The 3 yr cycle is one of the examples cited to show the EY origins of
Ashkenaz, actually. So you could make a stronger argument that Ashkenazim
have less reason to observe Simchas Torah than does EY's more mixed
populace.

But the current system has been the norm for some 1200 years. And
celebrating a siyum doesn't really depend on the age of the custom for
timing the learning.

:-)BBii!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             "The worst thing that can happen to a
mi...@aishdas.org        person is to remain asleep and untamed."
http://www.aishdas.org          - Rabbi Simcha Zissel Ziv, Alter of Kelm
Fax: (270) 514-1507

Rav Zilberstein brought a story from Ben Ish Chai
A poor man robbed the house of a rich widow.
A short time later he regretted his actions and
returned the stolen items
before the widow realized anything was gone.

Monoras HaMaOr says that those who transgress sins that are intuitively
understood to be wrong
have some internal [self inflicted?] blemish that prevents them attaining
Teshuvah about which we say
NaAse KeZeChuyos



Best,

Meir G. Rabi
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>On Fri, Oct 02, 2015 at 02:08:56PM -0400, Cantor Wolberg via Avodah wrote:
>: Has anyone ever noticed in the Sukkot Torah reading, third day of chol
>: hamo?ed, the word "minchatam" does not carry a vav? (29:24, 1st word)

R Micha wrote:

>Shemini Atzeres (pasuq 37) too, but that's a different yom tov.
>
>Other alterations in the mussafim for Sukkos: Most days end
>"veniskah". But day 2 ends "venikeihem", and day 6 ends "unsakheha"
>(with an inserted yud).
>
>I recall that the extra letters are two used and a mem, spelling
>the "mayim" of nisuch hamayim, but I forgot how it worked.

The two extra mems (from day 2 and 6) and the extra yud on day 6 
(un-sacheha rather than v'niska) spell mayim.  (Artscroll's Tikkun 
points that out)

But that still leaves the original question unanswered: what to do 
with and/or why the lack of a vav in 29:24?

-- Sholom

I believe that you brought this issue up before.

Why stop with Simchat Torah? Why not claim that we should revert to 
minhag Eretz Yisrael from the 12th century across the board?

On 10/9/2015 10:49 AM, Prof. Levine via Avodah wrote:
> I am going to take this opportunity to raise a point that has bothered 
> me for years.
>
> IMO ST has no place in EY. 

On 10/09/2015 11:42 AM, Prof. Levine wrote:
> Destroyed implies to me violence.

And the Portuguese conquest was not violent?!   The Jews were not
expelled under threat of death if they stayed?!  That's not violence?!

-- 
Zev Sero
z...@sero.name

On 10/09/2015 04:49 AM, Prof. Levine via Avodah wrote:

> I fail to understand why when the Jews returned to EY they adopted the
> yearly cycle of completing the reading of the Torah rather than going
> back to the original 3 or 3 and half year cycle.

Why would they have done that?  Why should they have abandoned their
own minhagim and taken on those of an extinct community?  Even if they
knew of that community's minhagim, which is doubtful, how were those
minhagim relevant to them?

Recife used to have a large Spanish-Portuguese kehillah, which was
completely destroyed when Portugal conquered it.  Some of the refugees
ended up in New York and founded Shearith Israel.   Is it your position
that centuries later, when Jews once again settled in Recife, they ought
to have turned themselves into S/P?!


[Email #2]

On 10/09/2015 04:49 AM, Prof. Levine via Avodah wrote:
> Add to the this fact that one is not supposed to dance on Shabbos and
> Yom Tov.  (I know that today there are many who are maikel,  but
> still this is the halacha.)

Those of us who are meikil believe that it is *not* the halacha.
Whether because we follow Tosfos that the gezera no longer applies,
or because we hold that "rikud" means jumping, and dances in which
one always has at least one foot on the floor were never banned in
the first place.


[Email #3]

On 10/09/2015 04:54 AM, Prof. Levine via Avodah wrote:
> At 04:43 PM 10/8/2015, Micha Berger wrote:
>> But you do state your opinion when you reposted the email:
>> > I like the sentiment. Not sure about the actual suggestion.

> Not true. Again,  these were not my words, but were those of the person who sent me the email.

You sent them to the list, therefore they were your words.   Anything
you send to the list is your words, whether you composed them yourself
or copied them from someone else.   If you are quoting someone else,
it is up to you to say so.

And forwarding an article implies your endorsement, unless you
expressly say otherwise.


[Email #4]

On 10/09/2015 06:11 AM, Micha Berger via Avodah wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 09, 2015 at 04:49:19AM -0400, Prof. Levine via Avodah wrote:
> : IMO ST has no place in EY.  The Torah in EY was originally read
> : according to a 3 or 3.5 year cycle...

> I thought it was a 3 yr cycle from Shavuos to the third Shavu'os after.

No, it was not an exact number of years, and there was no particular
time that it started.  Nor was every shul in the same town on the same
schedule.   Each shul held a Simchas Torah whenever it reached Vezos
Habracha and restarted from Bereshis, and all the Jews of the town would
come and celebrate with that shul.

-- 
Zev Sero
z...@sero.name

At 08:16 AM 10/9/2015, Saul Guberman wrote:
>To call your minyan a more genuine simcha when the Flatbush Jewish 
>area has between 50-100 more Shuls that do not follow your lead, is 
>difficult to gauge.  How many people show up to your shul's main 
>minyan and how is it run?

On ST we have at least twice as many men as the Main Minyan on the 
morning of ST.  I have never davened at the shul's Main Minyan on ST 
during the day,  but from what I have been told things are not very 
lively and attendance dwindles each year.  They have a Kiddush after 
davening.  We do not have one, although this year since the Kiddush 
for main minyan was in the Bais Medrash where we daven,  they offered 
us some cake and drinks.  Almost no one partook.  People went home.

We do not have our own davening at night on ST,  the Main Minyan 
does.  However,  they have to import some Lubavitchers on ST at night 
to make it lively.  The kids are given all sorts of nosh.


[Email #2]

At 11:31 AM 10/9/2015, Zev Sero wrote:
>On 10/09/2015 11:21 AM, Prof. Levine wrote:
>>At 11:03 AM 10/9/2015, Zev Sero wrote:
>>>Recife used to have a large Spanish-Portuguese kehillah, which was
>>>completely destroyed when Portugal conquered it.

>>The Jewish community of Recife was not "completely destroyed." The
>>Jews were allowed to leave and to take most of their possessions with
>>them.

>And this means it was not completely destroyed how?

Destroyed implies to me violence.  It ceased to exist would be a 
better terminology.

Did you read my article?  If not,  then please do.  It is informative.

At 11:03 AM 10/9/2015, Zev Sero wrote:
>Recife used to have a large Spanish-Portuguese kehillah, which was
>completely destroyed when Portugal conquered it.

The Jewish community of Recife was not "completely destroyed."  The 
Jews were allowed to leave and to take most of their possessions with them.

See my article

<http://personal.stevens.ed
u/%7Ellevine/jp/Recife%20-%20The%20First%20Jewish%20Community%20In%20The%20
New%20World.pdf>
"Recife - The First Jewish Community in the New World" The Jewish Press,
June 3, 2005, page 32. Glimpses into American Jewish History Part 3. (Also
available at
<http:
//www.ourjerusalem.com/history/story/history20050830.html>http
://www.ourjerusalem.com/history/story/history20050830.html) 

YL

On 10/09/2015 11:21 AM, Prof. Levine wrote:
> At 11:03 AM 10/9/2015, Zev Sero wrote:
>> Recife used to have a large Spanish-Portuguese kehillah, which was
>> completely destroyed when Portugal conquered it.

> The Jewish community of Recife was not "completely destroyed." The
> Jews were allowed to leave and to take most of their possessions with
> them.

And this means it was not completely destroyed how?

-- 
Zev Sero
z...@sero.name

On Fri, Oct 09, 2015 at 08:11:25AM -0400, Sholom Simon via Avodah wrote:
: The two extra mems (from day 2 and 6) and the extra yud on day 6
: (un-sacheha rather than v'niska) spell mayim.  (Artscroll's Tikkun
: points that out)

Off-list, REMT emailed me citing the bottome of Taanis 2b off-list.
(In case you wanted to know where R' Scroll got it from.)

:-)BBii!
-Micha

When the first astronaut landed on the moon and it was broadcast across the

world, a number of Jews didn?t want to believe it was possible, because of
what it says in

Tehillim 116

R? Yosef Scheinberger (from the Eida Chareides) was visiting New York at

the time and went to visit Rav Soloveitchik at his apartment on YU campus

to discuss this issue with him, and he said that many of the residents in

Meah Shearim were depressed over this and maybe the Rav could provide

guidance.

Rav Soloveitchik answered based on a Ramban (very beginning of Bereshis)

where the intention of the

pasuk is that the moon stars and sun are part of the creation of ?????, as

is everything else mentioned during the 7 days of creation. The angels and

celestial upperworlds are never mentioned in the Torah, and those are the

things created when it says differently That is what the pasuk in Tehillim

means  includes the moon and stars.

R? Scheinberger shared this explanation with the residents of Meah Shearim

and they were appeased and were grateful to the Rav for his explanation.

see divrei harav p243 for the Hebrew pesukim

-- 
Eli Turkel
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On Sun, Sep 27, 2015 at 1:19 AM, Micha Berger <mi...@aishdas.org> wrote:
> On Sat, Sep 26, 2015 at 11:33:41PM -0400, Ken Bloom via Avodah wrote:
>: Can anyone recommend good books about Sukkot? I'm looking to better
>: understand the meaning behind the holiday and its mitzvot, and hopefully
>: understand how they all fit together. I'm looking for something more in
>: depth than Sefer HaToda'ah....

> RYHutner's Pachad Yitzchaq.

Just had a chance to look at Pachad Yitzchak, and while it's definitely
a good work on Jewish hashkafah, it's not what I'm looking for in terms
of an expository work that explains Sukkot in depth and explains all of
the various mitzvot and concepts of the holiday and how they fit into
a unified conceptual framework.

You might enjoy some of RYBS's Drashot found here:
http://www.noraosharav.com/index.html  Some of them are quite substantial
and certainly explore the Mitzvot and Concepts of the Holiday with an eye
toward placing them in a unified conceptual framework.

- Mordechai

On Sat, Sep 26, 2015 at 11:33:41PM -0400, Ken Bloom via Avodah wrote:
> Can anyone recommend good books about Sukkot? I'm looking to better
> understand the meaning behind the holiday and its mitzvot, and hopefully
> understand how they all fit together. I'm looking for something more in
> depth than Sefer HaToda'ah....

I know it's late but Succos Inspired by Moshe Gersht is a great book on
Sukkos - http://www.feldheim.com/succos-inspired.html

-- 
Shui Haber
<https://about.me/shuihaber?promo=email_sig>
"The secret to always being in the right place at the right time is
knowing that you always are."


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