Volume 33: Number 127
Tue, 22 Sep 2015
Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
Message: 1
From: Marty Bluke
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2015 13:33:28 +0300
Subject: Re: [Avodah] How does Prozbul work?
R' Akiva Miller wrote:
"I think it makes no sense for Prozbul to be "an exception to an enactment",
because "why bother?" If the agricultural Shemitta stops being d'Oraisa,
then Chazal can certainly enact it on a d'rabanan level. But to do that for
Shemitas Kesafim means to legislate the following three things
simultaneously:
1) Enact a law requiring cancellation of loans
2) Loans are exempt from cancellation if Prozbul is done
3) For the benefit of both poor and wealthy, everyone should do a Prozbul
Why enact such a set of laws? Wouldn't it be far simpler to just let
Shmitas Kesafim lapse, and NOT be enacted on a d'rabanan level?"
If you look at the sugya of pruzbul (Gittin 36a-b) these points are all
addressed:
The Gemara starts out with the fact that Hillel was mesaken pruzbul. Then
the Gemara asks how could he do that if the Torah (shemitas kesafim)
cancels the loan? Abaye answers that Hillel only made his takana of pruzbul
when shemittas kesafim was derabbanon. The Gemara then asks how could the
Chachamim be mesaken shemmitas kesafim derabbanon if min hatorah the lender
has to pay back the loan? Rava answers hefker beis din hefker.
We see clearly from the Gemara that the historical progression was
1. Shemmita ceased being min hatorah
2. Chachamim were mesaken shemitta miderabbonon including shemittas kesafim
3. After shemitta derabbonon was already established Hillel saw that people
were not lending money and therefore was mesaken pruzbul
In other words these things did not happen simultaneously, pruzbul was
enacted after shemmitas kesafim was already established.
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Message: 2
From: Prof. Levine
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 09:03:00 -0400
Subject: [Avodah] An Important Clarification Regarding Some Relevant
[]
Some Relevant Halachos for Yom Kippur: A Clarification
The following is an excerpt from the article on selected halachos
relative to Yom Kippur:
"At the conclusion of Yom Kippur, one may not do melachah (labor
prohibited on Shabbos/ Yom Kippur) until one recites (or hears)
Havdalah over wine (or the equivalent) or recites A ttah Chonantanu
in Ma'ariv, or says Baruch hamavdil bein kodesh l'chol. Although
reciting any of these allows one to do melachah, one may not eat
until after reciting (or hearing) Havdalah over wine (or the
equivalent). Accordingly, married men should hurry home after Ma'ariv
on Motza'ei Yom Kippur to recite Havdalah so that their wives will be
able to eat."
Clarification :
Following the conclusion of Yom Kippur, after one recites Attah
Chonantanu in Ma'ariv or says Baruch hamavdil bein kodesh l'chol, one
may drink water even before reciting (or hearing) Havdalah. Thus (for
example), a woman whose husband is delayed in coming home after
Ma'ariv on Motza'ei Yom Kippur may recite Baruch hamavdil bein kodesh
l'chol after nightfall and drink water before hearing Havdalah.
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Message: 3
From: Allan Engel
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2015 23:18:00 +0100
Subject: Re: [Avodah] prosbul question
A summary of Pruzbul I have in front of me (written by Rabbi D Tugendhaft,
London) says:
"...this even includes things such as food lent to a neighbour because
anything which is lent out and another item is returned in its place is
considered a halva'ah (a loan)"
On 16 September 2015 at 23:07, Zev Sero via Avodah <avo...@lists.aishdas.org
> wrote:
> On 09/16/2015 05:41 PM, Lisa Liel via Avodah wrote:
>
>> A friend of mine posted this question on Facebook:
>>
>> Having failed to make a prozbul, I just spent some time looking
>>> around at books and online. I see no discussion whatsoever on
>>> whether the concept of shemittat kesafim applies to in-kind loans,
>>> e.g. books I've loaned out. Does anyone know of a source that
>>> addresses whether the shmittah year cancels an obligation to return
>>> a loaned sefer, kli, whatever?
>>>
>>
> I have no answer for her. Does anyone here?
>>
>
>
> Shemita applies only to halva'ah, not to she'elah. English uses the
> same word, but they are very different transactions. It's actually
> strange that English, which is usually the most precise language, does
> not distinguish them.
>
> A book is a she'elah; the book remains her property, and she expects
> the borrower to return it. Thus it is not at all affected by shemita.
> It is also not subject to the prohibition on ribbis; not only is there
> absolutely nothing wrong with charging people to borrow your stuff,
> the Torah explicitly endorses it as one of the four forms of shemirah.
>
> --
> Zev Sero GChT
> z...@sero.name
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Avodah mailing list
> Avo...@lists.aishdas.org
> http://lists.aishdas.org/listinfo.cgi/avodah-aishdas.org
>
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Message: 4
From: Ben Waxman
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2015 15:53:15 +0200
Subject: [Avodah] Haqeil
Anyone here understand sound?
Assuming best case scenarios (loud voices, no background noise, good
hearing), how many people could possibly hear the king read at Haqeil?
It would seem that there is no way the king could project his voice so
that most could hear him (????).
If few actually came to the tekes, OK, but if most people came how could
it possibly work?
Ben
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Message: 5
From: Prof. Levine
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2015 10:57:28 -0400
Subject: [Avodah] From Medieval Ashkenaz Techinah Supplication to
See http://tinyurl.com/pwg839c
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Message: 6
From: Eli Turkel
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2015 20:20:04 +0300
Subject: [Avodah] vort on teshuvah
1) Rambam in hlichot teshuva (7:6) discusses the effect of teshuva
yesterday (emesh) i was far from G-d hated ... and now I am beloved
RYBS asks why the Rambam here uses such poetic language in particular using
"emesh" instead of "etmol" . He asnwers that "etmol" indicates a 24 hour
period while "emesh" can be a fraction of second between being hated by G-d
and being loved by G-d
2) Someone who marries on a woman on condition that he is a Tzaddik the
marriage is valid even if it is known that he is a rasha perhaps (shema) he
did teshuva.
Someone in the shiur noted that "shema" read backwards is "emesh" . Meaning
that rasha who proposed marriage did teshuva a fraction of a second before
the proposal
--
Eli Turkel
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Message: 7
From: Prof. Levine
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2015 13:15:47 -0400
Subject: [Avodah] Reciting 100 Brochos Daily
See http://tinyurl.com/njmnbgn
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Message: 8
From: Shmuel Weidberg
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2015 18:12:07 -0400
Subject: [Avodah] Kosher Switch Really Random?
Hello everybody. I haven't been active on this list in a long time.
I just had a look around the internet to see if there was anything new with
the Kosher Switch, and I remembered an issue with it that I haven't seen
discussed anywhere.
The makers say that there is a certain amount of randomization involved in
whether the light flashes into the detector and whether the detector
detects the light.
There is an issue with this that would not be known to those who aren't
computer scientists and that is that computers cannot actually create
random numbers. They create pseudo-random numbers which means they take a
seed number and perform a complex calculation on it to get the next number,
which looks like it bears no relation to the first number, but which in
fact is completely determined by the first number.
Computer can get real random numbers, by generating the seed by looking at
actions that take place that the computer cannot predict such as when
somebody presses a key on a keyboard, or when some other sensor is
activated. Alternatively, they can get random numbers from a special piece
of hardware that is designed to physically make random numbers. However, I
believe such pieces of hardware are quite specialized and if there actually
was one in the switch it would be advertised.
In short I am saying that however much Kosher Switch claims that there is a
random chance of the switch not going on, it is not really random. At the
time the switch is flicked the computer "knows" whether it will go on, it
simply pretends that it doesn't and goes through the motions.
Regards,
Shmuel
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Message: 9
From: Zev Sero
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 13:59:16 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] prosbul question
On 09/17/2015 06:18 PM, Allan Engel via Avodah wrote:
> "...this even includes things such as food lent to a neighbour
> because anything which is lent out and another item is returned in
> its place is considered a halva'ah (a loan)"
Yes, of course. That is the definition of halva'ah, as opposed to she'elah.
Both ribbis and shemitah apply to such a transaction.
--
Zev Sero GChT
z...@sero.name
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Message: 10
From: Rich, Joel
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 18:29:16 +0000
Subject: Re: [Avodah] Kosher Switch Really Random?
In short I am saying that however much Kosher Switch claims that there is a
random chance of the switch not going on, it is not really random. At the
time the switch is flicked the computer "knows" whether it will go on, it
simply pretends that it doesn't and goes through the motions.
-------------------------------
Yes, much as a complete understanding of the physics involved would
determine the roll of the dice as it left one?s hand. Yet we call this
?random? (and iirc statisticians can?t prove any set of numbers was truly
random, only that they appear likely so.
Gct
Joel Rich
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Message: 11
From: Moshe Yehuda Gluck
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2015 01:35:52 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] Kosher Switch Really Random?
R? Shmuel Weidberg:
The makers say that there is a certain amount of randomization involved in
whether the light flashes into the detector and whether the detector
detects the light.
There is an issue with this that would not be known to those who aren't
computer scientists and that is that computers cannot actually create
random numbers. They create pseudo-random numbers which means they take a
seed number and perform a complex calculation on it to get the next number,
which looks like it bears no relation to the first number, but which in
fact is completely determined by the first number.
<SNIP>
In short I am saying that however much Kosher Switch claims that there is a
random chance of the switch not going on, it is not really random. At the
time the switch is flicked the computer "knows" whether it will go on, it
simply pretends that it doesn't and goes through the motions.
---------------------------
Isn?t the lomdus of their approach that you, the person flicking the
switch, doesn?t DO anything because you?re only covering a light pulse
without knowing when it will come next? So it doesn?t really matter if it?s
random, it matters that you don?t know when it will next illuminate.
KT,
MYG
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