Avodah Mailing List

Volume 33: Number 71

Wed, 06 May 2015

• 1. Re: Spouses with Conflicting Customs (Kenneth Miller)
• 2. Re: A married sister ()
• 3. leap of faith (Eli Turkel)
• 4. Re: leap of faith (Micha Berger)
• 5. Re: Spouses with Conflicting Customs (Zev Sero)
• 6. Looking for help with an analogy (Yosef Gavriel Bechhofer)
• 7. Re: Looking for help with an analogy (Kenneth Miller)
• 8. How Kosher is the Kosher Switch? (Rafael Jason Hecht)
• 9. A woman is acquired (Shalom Berger)
• 10. Re: A woman is acquired (Micha Berger)
• 11. Re: Not saying Tachanun (Michael Poppers)
• 12. Tree of 40 Fruits (Lisa Liel)
• 13. Re: A woman is acquired (Kenneth Miller)
• 14. Scrolling Down the Pages of Jewish History (Prof. Levine)
• 15. All About Tehillim (Prof. Levine)
• 16. The Disappearing Doctor of Iyyar: Virtual Vanishing of a Venerable Minhog (Prof. Levine)

R' Micha Berger asked:
> Anyone else see one answering the other?

You make a good point, but as I see it, they don't *answer* each other as
much as they illustrate how complicated this subject is. For example,
consider the case of a Bas Kohen who marries a Yisrael, or a Bas Yisrael
who marries a Kohen. Her status changes upon marriage, but it will revert
upon the death of her husband. - Unless there is a child, in which case her
status will *not* revert. - Unless the child died too, in which case her
status *will* revert. - Unless there is a grandchild, in which case she
keeps her status even though her own child did not survive. (I probably
messed up some of those details, but my point is that itis a very complex
topic.)

Akiva Miller
____________________________________________________________
Forget the iPhone 6
1 little-known Apple supplier holds wealth-changing growth potential.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/5547ab96da8f82b966b58st02vuc

From: Kenneth Miller via Avodah  <avo...@lists.aishdas.org>

In this morning's parsha, we learn that  a kohen may m'tamei himself for 
his unmarried sister, but not for one who has  been married. I used to think 
that this was because upon marriage, the sister  leaves the family that she 
grew up in, and is no longer part of that family, and  becomes part of her 
husband's family. Thus, she is no longer part of her  brother's family.

But what about her father? [snip]
So, in very simple  terms, here's my question: If a Bas Kohen is married 
and then dies, why is it  that her father may attend the funeral, but her 
brother may not?

Akiva  Miller



>>>>>
 
I don't know why the bond between brother and sister seems to be lessened  
when the sister marries, but we do have other evidence that the bond between 
 father and daughter is never severed:  If a man has no sons, only  
daughters, his daughters inherit his property -- even if they are married.   The 
fact that they are married does not annul the fact that they  are still his 
daughters.
 

--Toby  Katz
t6...@aol.com
..
=============


-------------------------------------------------------------------
 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.aishdas.org/pipermail/avod
ah-aishdas.org/attachments/20150504/a4c16f6a/attachment-0001.htm>

<<My choice for something which is unprovable because it is based on
personal experience is, "Is there someone whom you love? Prove it to me.">>

A more practical problem based on personal experience is that of defining
colors (to a human not in terms of wavelengths). There is no way for 2
people to confirm they are seeing the same colors.

One practical application is to examining cloths for a niddah - ketem.
I again refer to an  article in Keren Zavit by Nadav Shinrav on parshat
tazria

In particular I learned that brown is not a color

-- 
Eli Turkel
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.aishdas.org/pipermail/avod
ah-aishdas.org/attachments/20150504/89d06136/attachment-0001.htm>

On Mon, May 04, 2015 at 10:50:54PM +0300, Eli Turkel via Avodah wrote:
: A more practical problem based on personal experience is that of defining
: colors (to a human not in terms of wavelengths). There is no way for 2
: people to confirm they are seeing the same colors.

Even further: there is no wavelength corrsponding to pink or brown,
they only exist as our mind combines wavelengths. Pink is weirder,
because it resides on the color wheel where you would glue the two
extremes of the spectrum together to close the circle.

Colors other than the three in the middle of the sensitivity range of
each of the types of cone in your eye can be seen two ways. For example:
you could make orange by mixing two parts red with one part green,
or by looking at light of one color, that is at the right frequency to
trigger your red cones twice as much as they trigger the green.

The topic we're discussing is qualia, and color is a favorite sort of
quale to use for illustration (pun intended). A quale is the "what
it's like to see red".

In my example about orange, we have two different physics, but both
could end up producing the same experience, the same exact shade
and brightness of orange. So orange is not 1:1 any specific
wavelength.

Asude from the question RET raises, a popular thought experiment
among philosophers is Mary the Color Scientist (Frank Jackson 1982):

     Mary is a brilliant scientist who is, for whatever reason, forced
     to investigate the world from a black and white room via a black and
     white television monitor. She specializes in the neurophysiology of
     vision and acquires, let us suppose, all the physical information
     there is to obtain about what goes on when we see ripe tomatoes,
     or the sky, and use terms like 'red', 'blue', and so on. She
     discovers, for example, just which wavelength combinations from
     the sky stimulate the retina, and exactly how this produces via
     the central nervous system the contraction of the vocal chords
     and expulsion of air from the lungs that results in the uttering
     of the sentence 'The sky is blue'.... What will happen when Mary is
     released from her black and white room or is given a color television
     monitor? Will she learn anything or not? It seems just obvious that
     she will learn something about the world and our visual experience
     of it. But then is it inescapable that her previous knowledge was
     incomplete. But she had all the physical information. Ergo there
     is more to have than that, and Physicalism is false.

And so Jackson concludes that the world can't be reduced to physics.

This is also what I was talking about when I referred to justifying a
belief based on comparing imagination to memory. Koach hadimyon does
mean "imagination", but what Ariso meant by Imagination, or the rishonim
by dimyon, includes qualia in general. The image of red while you're
seeing it, not just when you're dreaming it up.

And I would argue that even when we make rigorous logical proofs, those
proofs are conclusions drawn from a set of givens, and those givens end
up resting on koach hadimyon anyway. The formally proven theological
statement is therefore less conclusive than one based on an appeal
to dimyon directly, such as R' Aqiva's argument.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Today is the 30th day, which is
mi...@aishdas.org        4 weeks and 2 days in/toward the omer.
http://www.aishdas.org   Gevurah sheb'Hod: When does capitulation
Fax: (270) 514-1507                  result in holding back from others?

On 05/04/2015 01:11 PM, I wrote:
>
> What's more, suppose her husband dies without issue.  She returns to her
> father's house, and is once more entitled to eat terumah and kodshim.

This is not quite correct.  She returns to eat teruma, but not kodshim.
"Milechem, velo kol lechem".

-- 
Zev Sero               I have a right to stand on my own defence, if you
z...@sero.name          intend to commit felony...if a robber meets me in
                        the street and commands me to surrender my purse,
                        I have a right to kill him without asking questions
                                               -- John Adams

Can anyone here please explain how chazakos (d'mei'ikara, d'hashta) 
would relate to Schroedinger's Cat?

Thanks!

KT,
YGB

R' Yosef Gavriel Bechhofer asked:

> Can anyone here please explain how chazakos (d'mei'ikara,
> d'hashta) would relate to Schroedinger's Cat?

My first knee-jerk reaction is to say that they DON'T relate. Chazakos are
all about law, and what the law will *presume* the reality to have been. We
found a piece of meat on the street, or we bought it and forgot where, or
any of a million similar questions. We don't really know whether it is
kosher or not, and to a certain extent we don't really care. What we really
care about is whether halacha allows us to *presume* that it is kosher.

Schroedinger's Cat and similar ventures are attempts to establish what the
*reality* is. The Cat is a thought experiment, but do not make the mistake
of thinking that it is mere philosophizing. The whole point of the
experiment is to establish what is really and actually happening inside the
box, and the answer (that they've come up with) is that two contradictory
truths (the cat is alive, the cat is dead) are both true at the same time.
This is a question of physics and reality, not a question of legal
presumptions.

The subject line of this thread says that you're "looking for help with an analogy". Could you tell us more about what you're working on?

Akiva Miller
____________________________________________________________
Old School Yearbook Pics
View Class Yearbooks Online Free. Search by School & Year. Look Now!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/5548190613cab19056408st04vuc

Last Motzei Shabbos I was among the crowd that was saying Kiddush Levana
out in the open. While davening I overheard someone making a joke about
using a Kosher Switch (my guess was to place light on the outside so people
could better read). I did my own reading and research before that and
couldn't tell if the gentleman was joking or being serious.

To put it lightly, the development and marketing Kosher Switch has caused a
major controversy in the Torah Jewish community. The Kosher Switch, a
device purportedly meant to ease the constraints of Sabbath observance, is
not the first of its kind. The Grama switch by Zomet Institute, as well as
the Zman switch have been created for emergency situations of pikuach
nefesh. However, this switch has caused an uproar in the Jewish community.
Why?

Before going on, let me state that while I am far from an expert in the
field of electrical engineering or Hilchos Shabbos (nor am I a certified
Rabbi), I treasure Shabbos and am always looking for ways to enhance it.
That said, I did my own personal research and humbly present my findings.
Before I go on, let me first state that the topic of electricity on Shabbos
is far more extensive than what I'm laying out, and that I am not
(intentionally) offering my own Psak, just a compilation of "what's out
there."

Read more:
http://www.mywesternwall.net/2015/04/30/how-kosher-is-the-kosher-s
witch.html

Best Regards,

Rafi Hecht
*rhe...@gmail.com* <rhe...@gmail.com>

-------------------------------------------------------


<http://ca.linkedin.com/in/rafihecht>
*Facebook:* *http://www.facebook.com/rhecht*
<http://www.facebook.com/rhecht>
*Twitter:* *https://www.twitter.com/#!/rafihecht*
<https://www.twitter.com/#!/rafihecht>
*Personal Site:* *www.rafihecht.com* <http://www.rafihecht.com>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.aishdas.org/pipermail/avod
ah-aishdas.org/attachments/20150504/6178744b/attachment-0001.htm>

I think that it is fairly clear that Jewish law does not believe that a
woman is owned by her husband, the language of the Mishna notwithstanding.
Can anyone point to a clear statement by Hazal or rishonim that supports my
supposition?

My thanks,
Shalom Z. Berger
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.aishdas.org/pipermail/avod
ah-aishdas.org/attachments/20150505/d8a35616/attachment-0001.htm>

On Tue, May 05, 2015 at 10:47:20PM +0300, Shalom Berger via Avodah wrote:
: I think that it is fairly clear that Jewish law does not believe that a
: woman is owned by her husband, the language of the Mishna notwithstanding.
: Can anyone point to a clear statement by Hazal or rishonim that supports my
: supposition?

First, the halakhos of qiddushin do not conform to that of purchase.
Qinyan is a broader concept than purchase; for example, not that long ago
you probably performed a qinyan sudar to appoint your rav as a shaliach
to sell your chameitz.

Some differences:
- no din of ona'ah, a shaveh perutah is sufficient for all
- you give the perutah to the woman, not her former "owner"
- she has to agree to the qinyan, despite not being the former "owner"
- she has to make a qinyan on the money
- money needn't exchange hands; she could pardon a loan to effect a
  marriage. However, qinyan bekesef does require such an exchange.
- Hilkhos gittin is a lot more complicated than just calling hefqer.
- the wife gets to decide whether to give him her earnings in exchange
  for being supported. If she were property, he would get her earnings
  wheter or not *he* chose to support here.

Now that I got that out of my system, to answer your question:

Qiddushin 6b: ... and if an eved kenaani, whose body he was qoneh,
    if he says to him [in a shetar shichrur] "you are hereby your own"
    it means legmaei,
    ishah DELO QANI LEIH GUFAH, lo qol shekein!

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Today is the 31st day, which is
mi...@aishdas.org        4 weeks and 3 days in/toward the omer.
http://www.aishdas.org   Tifferes sheb'Hod: What level of submission
Fax: (270) 514-1507                      results in harmony and balance?

In Avodah V33n70, RZS responded to R'Micha:
>> I bet [RYBS] said tachanun on the Gra's or R' Chaim's (Volozhin or Brisk)
>> yahrzeit, etc... For people who are seeking his pesaq, it's very likely
>> he would insist on Tachanun on days like that.

> Of course he said tachanun on their yortzeits, why wouldn't he?  The whole
> concept of turning a yortzeit into a holiday wasn't native to his world.
> The question is what he would do on a day they had been saved from some
> danger, and had observed as a private yomtov, or on a day that his
> community had adopted as a local "purim" to commemorate being saved from
> danger, as was a common practise among Jewish communities.

...or on Pesach Sheini?

http://www.sciencealert.com/news/20142107-25892.html

What's the halakha regarding eating fruit from one of these trees? Since 
the grafting was done by a non-Jew, is it okay to eat?

Lisa

R' Shalom Berger wrote:

<<< I think that it is fairly clear that Jewish law does not believe that a woman is owned by her husband, ... >>>

That depends on what you mean by "own".

I own my shoes. This gives me certain rights, such as wearing them to the
exclusion of anyone else, or the choice of who I might lend them to. I also
have certain responsibilities; I cannot simply destroy them for no reason.

I own my tefillin too. But the things I can do with my tefillin are much more limited than whast I can do with my shoes.

I have certain rights and responsibilities vis a vis my wife as well. Do I own her? I don't know. Is there a real nafka mina, or is it just semantics?

Akiva Miller

____________________________________________________________
Forget the iPhone 6
1 little-known Apple supplier holds wealth-changing growth potential.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/55492fe2678522fe2353bst03vuc

 From http://tinyurl.com/ocl2bqe

his story appears in R. Yechiel Spero?s 
<http://www.amazon.com/Haggadah-Touched-Story-Rabbi-Yechiel/dp/14226156
34>Pesach 
Haggadah: Touched by Our Story (pp. 88-91) and is 
republished here with permission from the 
copyright holders (ArtScroll / Mesorah 
Publications, Ltd.). The pictures below ? of the 
Tur Shulchan Aruch (printed in Berlin 1702) which 
belonged to Rabbi Yaakov Emden (Germany, 
1697-1776) ? were taken by  R. Akiva Males, and 
are republished with permission of Columbia 
University?s Rare Book and Manuscript Library.

See the above URL for much more. YL
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.aishdas.org/pipermail/avod
ah-aishdas.org/attachments/20150505/dba81d2a/attachment-0001.htm>

See http://tinyurl.com/mxoucvn

See http://tinyurl.com/mdz6883




------------------------------



_______________________________________________
Avodah mailing list
Avo...@lists.aishdas.org
http://www.aishdas.org/avodah
http://lists.aishdas.org/listinfo.cgi/avodah-aishdas.org


------------------------------


**************************************

Send Avodah mailing list submissions to
	avodah@lists.aishdas.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
	http://lists.aishdas.org/listinfo.cgi/avodah-aishdas.org
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
	avodah-request@lists.aishdas.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
	avodah-owner@lists.aishdas.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Avodah digest..."


A list of common acronyms is available at
        http://www.aishdas.org/avodah/acronyms.cgi
(They are also visible in the web archive copy of each digest.)