Avodah Mailing List

Volume 32: Number 3

Tue, 07 Jan 2014

• 1. Friday the Professor did not go to Shul (Prof. Levine)
• 2. Friday the Professor did not go to Shul (cantorwolb...@cox.net)
• 3. Re: Friday the Professor did not go to Shul (Kenneth Miller)
• 4. Re: Friday the Professor did not go to Shul (Ben Waxman)
• 5. Re: Shabbos Shira (Kenneth Miller)
• 6. Re: Shabbos Shira "Be Sure to Sing a Song to Your Children" (T613K@aol.com)
• 7. shehechyanu on engagement ring (M Cohen)
• 8. Teachers of Torah (Prof. Levine)
• 9. Divine Revelation (Harry Maryles)
• 10. Re: Friday the Professor did not go to Shul (Zev Sero)
• 11. Re: Divine Revelation (Micha Berger)
• 12. Why NOT to say Parshas Ha'mon (Prof. Levine)
• 13. Re: Shabbos Shira (Micha Berger)
• 14. Re: Shabbos Shira (Moshe Y. Gluck)
• 15. Re: Why NOT to say Parshas Ha'mon (Moshe Y. Gluck)

At 04:46 PM 1/6/2014, R. Daniel Israel wrote:

>Do you mean that not going was the correct thing to do, or making 
>the decision without consulting a Rabbi?

I meant both.  I felt perfectly capable of making this decision for myself.

>  Assuming the latter, which sounds reasonable to me, why should a 
> shul issue any guidance (as per you questions not reposted)?  Let 
> everyone decide for themselves, just as you did.

Ben Waxman posted the following on Areivim on 12/16/13 regarding the 
recent snow storm in EY.

 From Rav Fuerstein

1) Anyone who does not live close to shul should not risk the fall 
walking to shul.
2) If there you aren't sure that there will be minyan, don't take the 
chance in walking.
3) Shul should cancel any scheduled shiyur.


So it seems to me from 1,2 and 3 that Rav Fuerstein felt that 
everyone should not decide or perhaps was not capable of properly 
deciding for themselves.

YL


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 Is not guarding one?s health a mitzva D'oreisa?

Definitely, and there is a realistic sakana in that kind of weather.
Regarding halachic guidelines, the only thing I can think of is 
the halacha that if 10 doctors tell you, you can fast on Yom Kippur
and only one says that it would be dangerous to fast, you should 
listen to him. Likewise, if during succos, there is heavy rain, then
one should not sleep in the succah. By doing so he is putting his
health in jeopardy. With that said, then kahl v?chomer, it would 
seem that if the weather is very bad, one should stay home. 
In my shul our policy is that if school is called off, then the shul 
will be closed. If it happens to be Shabbos, then common sense
should prevail.

R' Yitzchok Levine asked:

> I decided not to go to shul this morning. ... I have
> arthritis in my knees, and if I fell, I might not be able
> to get up.  Lying in the snow in 11 degrees seemed to me
> not to be wise.
> ...
> 1.  Should the shuls in NYC have notified their congregants
> that they will be closed this morning and that people
> should not come to shul? Would this have been the proper
> thing to do from a Torah standpoint?

R' Daniel M. Israel responded:

> ... why should a shul issue any guidance (as per you questions
> not reposted)?  Let everyone decide for themselves, just as
> you did.

I offer the following as a possible answer to RDMI: This is why we have
gedarim and "lo plug"s: To make sure that we are all careful and safe.
Maybe the shul *should* be closed, to protect the foolish risk-takers from
themselves, even at the cost of the able-bodied ones who will miss minyan
as a result. Maybe, and maybe not.

A story appears in "Making of a Gadol" about Rav Yaakov Kaminetzky's first
Yom Kippur as rav of Toronto. (I can't find it right now; I hope I'm
remembering it correctly.) A few weeks beforehand, some members of the
community suggested that the local Yiddish newpapers should publish an
official ending time of the fast. He asked why this would be needed; can't
the rabbi of each shul make such an announcement? They answered that many
shuls lacked a rabbi; publishing the zman in the paper would insure that no
one ends the fast early.

Rav Kaminetzky then reasoned: If there's no rabbi who they can ask about
ending the fast, then they certainly don't have a rabbi to whom they can
ask shailos about fasting in general. And if so, there are probably some
cholim who should not be fasting, but will fast because they don't know any
better. If the announcement about the zman would appear in the paper, then
these people -- who should not be fasting at all -- will end up fasting
even longer than otherwise. It is better, he reasoned, that the whole city
should be uninformed of the zman, so that these few cholim will eat a bit
earlier.

That's a nice story about enforcing rules to everyone, for the sake of a
small group of people who are overly zealous about fasting. Here's another
story, much more recent, and much more relevant to RYL's question about
closing shuls for inclement weather:

It was Friday, Aug 26 2011, and Hurricane Irene was approaching New Jersey
(not to mention the rest of the east coast). A state of emergency had
already been declared the day before, and now much of the state --
including all the Atlantic City casinos -- were under mandatory evacuation
orders. Airports, trains, and highways everywhere were going to be closed
for the whole weekend. Late Friday, the mayor of Elizabeth informed Rav
Teitz that not only were they asking people to avoid driving, but that as
of 4 PM Shabbos afternoon, he didn't even want people walking in the
streets, and could the Rav please do whatever he could to keep the
community safe.

So among the announcements in shul that Shabbos morning -- or maybe they
even announced it at maariv, I don't remember -- we were told about this.
Consequently, the regular Shabbos mincha would be held at 2 PM, Shaloshudos
would be cancelled, and everyone should daven maariv b'y'chidus at home,
unless a neighborhood minyan could be gathered in a *very* small area.

I was proud of my Rav then and I continue to be so. But I must also admit
that this was an extremely extreme case. Most other cases are not so
clear-cut, and most people don't have arthritis or other mobility problems.
On the other hand, plenty of people get hurt even when they seem to be fit,
and even when they *are* fit. Accidents do happen. The last word has to be
that of the local rav, who is (or should be) very aware of his congregants'
situations -- not to mention of the local weather reports. With enough
information - and nice dose of Siyata D'Shmaya - he'll make the right
decision.

(You can read more about it at
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_Hurricane_Irene_in_New_Jersey)

Akiva Miller

____________________________________________________________
How Cruise Lines Fill All Those Unsold Cabins?
(HINT: You will want to book a cruise after you read this...)
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/52cb79b54c7d079b53fdcst01vuc

The perfect no-win situation. If you send out an email with guidance, 
you're patronizing and your congregants are unable to think for themselves.

If you don't say anything, you're irresponsible, cut off from the 
reality of life.

And while I agree that anyone who slips and falls on the way to minyan 
can't complain "The shul should have cancelled minyan!", people get 
their priorities mixed up. Someone wanting to say kaddish may be willing 
or even over eager to go to shul.

Ben

On 1/7/2014 12:16 AM, Prof. Levine wrote:
>
>
> So it seems to me from 1,2 and 3 that Rav Fuerstein felt that everyone 
> should not decide or perhaps was not capable of properly deciding for 
> themselves.
>
> YL
>
>

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Cantor Wolberg asked:

> Next week being Shabbos Shira, I am reminded of a puzzling
> paradox. We are all in awe of the splitting of the Sea ...
> What is fascinating is that the miracle of the Manna was no
> less awe-inspiring than the crossing of the Red Sea, and
> yet we hear no outpouring of song, no "Oz Yoshir." On the
> contrary - far from being moved to gratitude and praise of
> God, they grumbled and complained. If you stop and think
> of it, it makes no sense.

I would say that the miracle of the Manna was no less *miraculous* than the crossing of the Red Sea. But awe-inspiring? Not so much.

I wish it weren't so. I wish that we could look at a flower, and see the
miracle and feel the awe. But we don't. What we humans need (or want,
perhaps) is *drama*.

There was loads of drama at the Sea. And at Sinai too. I suppose there was
some drama when the people measured the manna that they had collected, and
it all ended up the same amount. But when they opened the front door each
morning and found a fresh-baked loaf sitting there? Sure, it was
miraculous, but unless they actually watched the manna appear out of
nothingness, it really doesn't grab the audience.

> If you stop and think of it, it makes no sense.

The problem is that for it to make no sense, you HAVE TO stop and think about it. I need to do that more often.

Akiva Miller
____________________________________________________________
Do THIS before eating carbs (every time)
1 EASY tip to increase fat-burning, lower blood sugar & decrease fat storage
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/52cc327f2dfe7327e31ccst04vuc

 
From: cantorwolb...@cox.net

>>Instead of Moses passing  the mantle of leadership to his children, which 
would be the
logical, natural  progression, he passes it to a non family member; his 
disciple, true,  but
still not of his own flesh and blood. One of life's tragedies is that  
often the greats are unable
to convey their greatness to their children. They  teach others but not 
their own children. 
Moses reached the heavens, but  could not reach his sons. To further this 
thesis, look and
you will find a  man so engrossed in great causes that he forgot to 
circumcise his own  son,
Eliezer (Shmos 4:25). It was his wife, Zipporah, who was the Mohel. What  a 
tragedy for the 
greatest prophet and teacher to experience. Also, it was  not Moses who 
raised his sons but
his father-in-law,  Jethro.<<





>>>>
You are correct that often the successors to great men are their disciples  
rather than their own children but one sentence here is just wrong:  "you  
will find a man so engrossed in great causes that he forgot to circumcise 
his  own son."
 
Moshe did not *forget* to circumcise his son!  There are a number of  
explanations as to why he didn't circumcise his son, but "he forgot" is  
certainly not one of them.  In fact, the very idea is laughable.  What  a thing to 
forget!
 
 

--Toby  Katz
..
=============


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I asked R Shlomo Miller about shehechyanu on engagement ring.

He agreed that most are probably not saying it, but it's probably bc of
ignorance.

He said that since shehechyanu is reshus, 
you don't have to tell girls to make shehechyanu, but if they want to they
certainly can.

Btw, in general do our wives make shehechyanu when they get new jewelry?

KT, mc

What kind of teachers of Torah do we need?

Rav Samson Raphael Hirsch wrote in his essay Shevat IV "Personalities 
qualified to function as masters of Torah are few and far between. 
Even fewer are those teachers who, thoroughly versed in both Torah 
and Talmud, are knowledgeable as well in secular matters and thus are 
capable of preparing Torah disciples to evaluate science and nature 
in the true light of Torah. Such teachers must be found."

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There is a fascinating article by Conservative Rabbi Daniel Gordis. Fior
those who don't know him. He is on the very rightest of wings in the
Conservative movement. If one didn't know better one might think he is an
Orthodox rabbi. But he is clearly not. Here is an excerpt from this
article:

In this unsettled Jewish world, many groups are staking out territory. We
have our Essenes today?haredim?who want as little to do with the Western
world, or the rest of us, as possible. For the time being, high birth rates
buttress their position, but I find it impossible to imagine that
Ultra-Orthodoxy, with its rabid rejection of Western intellectualism and
its reprehensible attitude to women (among many other factors) is
sustainable for the long run. The future of Judaism is not (I hope) there.
What about Centrist Orthodoxy? It has built impressive social and
educational institutions, created a vast lay network with impressively high
levels of Jewish literacy and learning. But central to Orthodoxy?s
worldview is the non-negotiability of absolute belief in the divine
revelation of Jewish religious tradition. So far it appears to be working,
but in the intellectual world we inhabit, can this certainty about
revelation sustain itself among most well-educated American Jews for the
long haul without retreat into the other-worldliness and
anti-intellectualism of the?haredim? One wonders.

He compares the insular world of Charedim to the Essenes of the 2nd Temple era. Is this a fair comparison?

But more importantly IMHO is his view of Centrist Orthtodxy... or more
correctly his problems with it. I think he questions our intellectual
honesty with respect to our absolute belief Divine revelation... and
wonders if this view can be sustained in the intellectual world in which we
live.

Is he right? Is this a problem for Centrists?

HM
?
Want Emes and Emunah in your life? 


Try this: http://haemtza.blogspot.com/
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On 6/01/2014 10:50 PM, Kenneth Miller wrote:
> A story appears in "Making of a Gadol" about Rav Yaakov Kaminetzky's
> first Yom Kippur as rav of Toronto. (I can't find it right now; I
> hope I'm remembering it correctly.)...
> Rav Kaminetzky then reasoned... If the announcement about the zman would
> appear in the paper, then these people -- who should not be fasting
> at all -- will end up fasting even longer than otherwise. It is
> better, he reasoned, that the whole city should be uninformed of the
> zman, so that these few cholim will eat a bit earlier.

And what if they err in the other direction? What if, as a result of
not knowing the correct zman, they fast even longer? Why is one error
more likely than the other?

-- 
Zev Sero
z...@sero.name

On Tue, Jan 07, 2014 at 11:32:35AM -0800, Harry Maryles wrote:
: There is a fascinating article by Conservative Rabbi Daniel Gordis...
: But more importantly IMHO is his view of Centrist Orthtodxy... or more
: correctly his problems with it. I think he questions our intellectual
: honesty with respect to our absolute belief Divine revelation... and
: wonders if this view can be sustained in the intellectual world in which
: we live.

: Is he right? Is this a problem for Centrists?

The argument for the Documentary Hypothesis isn't compelling for someone
who accepted Torah miSinai and the notion that Hashem dictated a text
meant to be understood on multiple levels. In fact, the acceptance of
the Biblical Critical "evidence" would mean to accept that the final
text has imperfections that are scars of its existence in an earlier form.

Gordis is simply so convinced of DH, that he can't picture that someone
could actually not share the assumptions it is based upon. He therefore
blames compartmentalization.

It's kind of like the Rambam's take on Aristotilian eternity. True
Aristotilians say the Rambam must have been facing cognitive dissonence
in asserting beri'ah yeish mei'ayin. The Rambam argued that Aristo's
proof may be orthodox natual philosophy, but if someone believes that
the Creator can violate nature (the proof rests on a conservation of
matter law), the proof isn't sound. Meanwhile, all the other Natural
Philosophers faster assume the Kalam and the Rambam are fooling themselves
rather than question the orthodoxy in the field.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Mussar is like oil put in water,
mi...@aishdas.org        eventually it will rise to the top.
http://www.aishdas.org                    - Rav Yisrael Salanter
Fax: (270) 514-1507

 From http://tinyurl.com/mo7bzbn

  Shulchan Aruch ( O.Ch 1: 23) It is good to say Parshas Ha'mon.
(Levush) So that you will believe , Parnasa is Hashgacha Peratis.

The Aruch Hashulchan  writes, Our Minhag is not to say it.
There is no mention of Parshas Ha'mon in Shas.

The Derisha claims there is a Yerushalmi (Brachos) that speaks
about the Segula  of Parshas Ha'mon. The Aruch Hashulchan writes
he couldn't find this Yerushalmi.

He continues, The reason for not saying Parshas Ha'mon is
  is because,

  a)The Parsha mentions numerous  times the Bnai Yisroel's complaints
of not having food.
  b)the complaints on the Manna.
  c)The Midrash writes  Hashem said  "I don't need  your
  complaints and not your praises." (on the Manna)

If the sole purpose of saying the Parsha is only to have the Segulah
Of Parnasah, The Rambam might consider it Kefirah. "They make
The Divrei Torah a Refuas Haguf and it isn't but a Refuas Hanefesh"

(Hl. Avoda Zarah (Perek 11)

----------
In light of the above I have to wonder if there is a way to undo the 
saying of Parshas Ha'mon if one said it today.   YL

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On Tue, Jan 07, 2014 at 04:58:23PM +0000, Kenneth Miller wrote:
: I would say that the miracle of the Manna was no less *miraculous*
: than the crossing of the Red Sea. But awe-inspiring? Not so much.

When I was an undergrad, I did some research into building a walking
robot that can balance. Four or six legs. At some point, I found our
ability to balance, even if we were built like ants, to be wonderous;
all the more so on just two!

: I wish it weren't so. I wish that we could look at a flower, and see
: the miracle and feel the awe. But we don't. What we humans need (or want,
: perhaps) is *drama*.

So the key to being able to say Modeh Ani with kavanah is to realize
the drama inherent in all those body parts working and coordinating
together?

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             In the days of our sages, man didn't sin unless
mi...@aishdas.org        he was overcome with a spirit of foolishness.
http://www.aishdas.org   Today, we don't do a mitzvah unless we receive
Fax: (270) 514-1507      a spirit of purity.      - Rav Yisrael Salanter

R' AM:
: I wish it weren't so. I wish that we could look at a flower, and see
: the miracle and feel the awe. But we don't. What we humans need (or want,
: perhaps) is *drama*.
-----------------------


on context and education. Context - what our worldview is. Education - how
much we know about what we are observing. 

Case in point - someone I know took Anatomy and Physiology in college and
came out baffled at how the professor could be an atheist. 

KT,
MYG

R? YL:
From http://tinyurl.com/mo7bzbn

?Shulchan Aruch ( O.Ch 1: 23) It is good to say Parshas Ha'mon.
(Levush) So that you will believe , Parnasa is Hashgacha Peratis.

The Aruch Hashulchan? writes, Our Minhag is not to say it.
There is no mention of Parshas Ha?mon in Shas.

The Derisha claims there is a Yerushalmi (Brachos) that speaks
about the Segula? of Parshas Ha?mon. The Aruch Hashulchan writes
he couldn?t find this Yerushalmi.

He continues, The reason for not saying Parshas Ha?mon is
?is because,
<SNIP> 
________________________________________
In light of the above I have to wonder if there is a way to undo the saying
of Parshas Ha'mon if one said it today.?? YL

-----------------------


HaShulchan; the Aruch HaShulchan begins with a question - why don't we say
it? He says, I don't know, I am troubled, we need to be me'yasheiv this
minhag! (I am paraphrasing, these are not his exact words, but they are
clearly his intent, look it up.) And then he continues, as the blogger does,
to say reasons why the minhag became - contra to the Tur and Shulchan Aruch
- not to say Parshas HaMan as part of the daily prayer order. 
The Yerushalmi that the AhS quotes (from the Derishah) is also quotes by the
Tashbatz, as per the Mechon Yerushalaim Tur; also per there, they must have
had a different girsa in the Yerushalmi.
I really think that the people who have been so active and vocal on social
media today about not saying Parashas HaMan are doing so because they
learned the Biur Hagra on the Shulchan Aruch that says to say it every day.
The Gaon says that one of the reasons to say it is to remind us that if we
spend all our time learning then Hashem will make sure that we have do not
have to work to have Parnassah. QED.

KT,
MYG




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