Avodah Mailing List

Volume 31: Number 193

Tue, 26 Nov 2013

• 1. eating out (saul newman)
• 2. Re: changing nusach tefillah (Zev Sero)
• 3. Re: Skiing HaGomel (Isaac Balbin)
• 4. Re: eating out (Ben Waxman)
• 5. Re: eating out (Daniel Israel)
• 6. Immense Importance of the Subject Hashkafa (Prof. Levine)
• 7. Re: The Lion Wakes... (Kenneth Miller)
• 8. Re: The Lion Wakes... (Zev Sero)
• 9. P?sakim of HaRav Shmuel Kamenetsky Regarding Chanukah (Prof. Levine)
• 10. Skiing HaGomel, ShoMer PaSa'im (Rabbi Meir G. Rabi)
• 11. Re: The Gym, the Carpool, and Tzniyus (Micha Berger)
• 12. Thanksgiving on Chanukah (Prof. Levine)

http://www.ou.org/life/files/Kashrut_Organization_Nov13.pdf
the OU kashrut in israel guide states---  [pg 22]

The first point to bear in mind is that if a
family has a particular minhag vis-a-vis
kashrut, any supervision that you rely
on while in Israel should meet that same
standard. Furthermore, even if your family
doesn?t have a specific minhag, but are
nevertheless accustomed to relying on a
certain level of kashrut supervision, you
should ensure that you are maintaining the
same level of kashrut as you would at home.
Both these points relate not only to relying
on a particular hechsher or restaurant, but
also eating in someone else?s home.


--- is this gebnerally true, you cant eat at another's home who has
different minhagim?
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On 22/11/2013 12:46 PM, Lisa Liel wrote:
> I have a strange situation.  I belong to a group which is planning an
> event, which will be focused on cultural diversity within the Jewish
> People.  The group is approximately 80% or more Ashkenazi, and
> davening is generally Nusach Ashkenaz.  There is a small group who
> daven Nusach Eidot HaMizrach. The planners of this event are talking
> about having davening for all of us in Nusach Eidot HaMizrach, in
> order to experience this culture.
>
> Is there a halakhic issue in deliberately changing the nusach tefillah to one used by a minority of a group for such a purpose?
>
If I understand you correctly, this davening is not going to be taking place
in an shul, with an established nusach, but as an ad hoc minyan in some
location that may never have had a minyan before and may never have one again,
and therefore has no established nusach.  Thus I see no a priori reason why
the chazan should be chosen from the Ashkenaz-daveners rather than from the
Sefaradi ones.   And if he is from the latter, using his nusach, then your
question becomes the same as what to do when in a shul that uses a nusach
other than the one you usually use.


-- 
Zev Sero               A citizen may not be required to offer a 'good and
z...@sero.name          substantial reason' why he should be permitted to
                        exercise his rights. The right's existence is all
                        the reason he needs.
                            - Judge Benson E. Legg, Woollard v. Sheridan

R Meir Rabbi wrote:
> Since it is not the risk that
> determines HaGomel, any risk is intolerable if
> the activity is beyond the range of what is deemed normal. So the fact that
> many people would be scared to climb the upper scaffolding of the Sydney
> Harbour Bridge notwithstanding their being tethered, crosses the Halachic
> barrier and prompts the Beracha of HaGomel.

??? I always understood it was only the risk not the degree of fear. The
Gemora was giving us well worn risks. Rav Soloveitchik stopped saying
HaGomel on on his plane trips when he felt the risk wasn't greater (less)
than driving. If there was one place I'd institute HaGomel that would
be driving in a car in India. The rate of accidents and the ridiculous
risks were very great (I used to shut my eyes and say Tehillim, it was
that bad!) and yes, I was scared on occasion as well.

> Those who live in Peru cross rope bridges as a regular event, it is
> well <within what is deemed normal and they are not scared.

Ah but in India they aren't scared either, they just die on the
roads. They kick and roll the body into the sidewalk so it doesn't hold
up traffic until the family come later to retrieve it. I don't call
meshugass normal behaviour even if they are used to it and have no fear.

???? ??????? ????? ????? ????

Every year there are articles in various publications about Ashkenazim 
eating in the homes of Sefardim on Pesach and the universal (DL anyway) 
opinion is "just don't eat the actual kiniyot".  Rav Ovadia has a psak 
about someone who is maqpid on chalaq meat attending a simcha at which 
non-chalaq meat is served (he allows you to eat). These are two of many 
examples in which poskim say "go ahead and eat even though the 
minhag/heksher is different from the one to which you are normally 
accustomed".

On 11/24/2013 5:28 AM, saul newman wrote:
>
> --- is this gebnerally true, you cant eat at another's home who has 
> different minhagim?

There is definitely a difference between eating out and eating at another's home.

That said, I suspect this is just poorly worded, and the intent is that one
should not assume that every teudah in Israel represents any specific
standard of kashrus.  

IIRC RElefant of the OU daf yomi shiur discussed at one point the relative
responsibilities of host and guest regarding informing each other of
kashrus standards.  As I recall, it is common sense: the host must inform
the guest about anything he might expect him to be concerned about, but the
guest is responsible to ask the host about anything he couldn't anticipate.

--
Daniel M. Israel
d...@cornell.edu

On Nov 23, 2013, at 9:28 PM, saul newman <newman...@gmail.com> wrote:

> http://www.ou.org/life/files/Kashrut_Organization_Nov13.pdf
> the OU kashrut in israel guide states---  [pg 22]
> 
> The first point to bear in mind is that if a 
> family has a particular minhag vis-a-vis 
> kashrut, any supervision that you rely 
> on while in Israel should meet that same 
> standard. Furthermore, even if your family 
> doesn?t have a specific minhag, but are 
> nevertheless accustomed to relying on a 
> certain level of kashrut supervision, you 
> should ensure that you are maintaining the 
> same level of kashrut as you would at home. 
> Both these points relate not only to relying 
> on a particular hechsher or restaurant, but 
> also eating in someone else?s home.
> 
> 
> --- is this gebnerally true, you cant eat at another's home who has different minhagim?
> _______________________________________________
> Avodah mailing list
> Avo...@lists.aishdas.org
> http://lists.aishdas.org/listinfo.cgi/avodah-aishdas.org
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The following is from Rabbi Chaim Dov Rabinowitz's The History of the 
Jewish People From Nechemia to the Present,  Volume I pages 561 to 562

Q. According to your description, internal enemies among the Jews arise
during each generation, and with the aid of the gentiles succeed in creating
spiritual devastation within the nation. But the facts thems1ves require
explanation. How came it that the Jews of Babylon sank to such a level that
they were able to produce men of such low character?

A. Rabbi Sadiyah Gaon testifies (quoted in the Sefer HaKabbalah of the Ravid
and in Yeuchsin p. 207), that he once saw grade-school teachers teaching
Torah according to the distorted views of the most famous heretic of that
age, Chavi Habalchi. This heretic's works were not preserved, but judging
from the statements which appear in the books which were written to
counter him, we realize that he presented a view which was meant to
undermine the basic principles of Jewish faith. In this he was influenced by
similar movements taking place among the gentiles, actually comparable to
what is taking place nowadays among the non-religious public. Chavi died
about 60 years before the birth of Rabbi Sadiyah Gaon7. The fact that Rabbi
Sadiyah Gaon speaks of him, is sufficient to demonstrate that his influence
was great and even percolated downward to the level of grade-school
teachers.

Based on similar events which took place in Europe in more recent
times, it appears that the process of the perversion of Jewish concepts
which occurred in Babylon followed an identical course. Many young school
pupils had distorted views regarding the principles of Judaism and an
erroneous understanding of the Scriptures, and they had no books or
teachers to provide them with proper guidance. Therefore, when someone
appeared on the scene who was ready to fill that void, even if in a fallacious
manner, he was accepted by men who were involved in the field of Jewish
education. There was small chance for children who had been educated
according to the views of Habalchi, to later mature and become assiduous in
the study of Torah.

The defects inherent in their concepts of Judaism, made these former
pupils of Habalchi natural allies of the Karaites and other sects outside the
realm of Torah. Thus, the Jewish slanderers, whose nature is identical in all
ages, could have originated from such a class of people. Earlier (Chap. 31),
we described the character of a person who lived during the Second Temple
period who became the first informer in Jewish history. He was inspired to
commit his act of wickedness after a much-needed disciplinary action was
taken against him, which was done only after it became obvious that there
was no hope of rectifying him by other means. All outcasts, slanderers, and
informers who have ever arisen in Jewish history, are the product of
inadequate education and a lack of proper instruction in spiritual values
when they were young. They develop, and eventually reach the stage where
there no longer is a possibility of them ever making a character
transformation for the better.

Q. You seem to relate immense importance to the subject of hashkafah, i.e.,
instruction in Torah concepts and beliefs, both in the field of education and
as a means for coping with crises which may arise in one's personal life.
But the fact that the yeshivah of Sura closed its doors in the days of Rabbi
Sadiyah Gaon, should indicate that the advancements made in his time in
the field of hashkafah and Jewish concepts is no wonder cure. How came it
that a master instructor of the concepts of Judaism such as Rabbi Sadiyah
Gaon, didn't succeed in preventing his own yeshivah from closing down?

The simplistic approach of those who attribute all mishaps to the
machinations of the evil impulse, seems to me to be correct. There aren't
always proper explanations for why the evil impulse sometimes gets the
upper hand. Whatever happened then, happened, and why trouble looking
for explanations of how the evil impulse succeeded in overwhelming the
Jews of Babylon?

A. First of all, Rabbi Sadiyah Gaon was active in Sura (or to be more exact, in
Matta Machsia, not far from Sura), for only a short time. This was because
he was interrupted in his work by constant strife, and his good name was
besmirched among his own disciples by the slander spread by his
opponents. Moreover, Rabbi Sadiyah Gaon appeared on the scene too late,
and no doubt was unable to change much of the damage which had already
been done even among the grade-school teachers, not to speak of the
spiritual defects which already existed in other realms. This rot continued to
spread and develop, until the day arrived during the time of Rabbi Shreira
Gaon that Jews were able to denounce the sages of Israel before the gentile
authorities and have them imprisoned.

I have no doubt that knowledge of Jewish hashkafah and concepts, is
the main foundation of Jewish education and in fostering readiness to study
Torah. Whenever this area is neglected, damage is caused which can last
for generations and is difficult to amend. This would be analogous to a
hard-to-cure disease which is the result of long-standing neglect, which if it
had been treated in time could have prevented much future trouble.
Of course the evil impulse is powerful, but in regard to its activities it is
said: "I have created the evil impulse, but I have also created the 
Torah as its
remedy.'' The subject known as "Torah" is very general, and it includes both
the sanctifying study of the Talmud, and the instructive study of hashkafah
found in Aggadah and associated literature. Neglect of either of the two.
study of the Talmud or of hashkafah, opens the door wide for all sorts of
spiritual ills. This idea can be demonstrated by numerous proofs derived
from Jewish history, although there are many even among those who are
considered loyal to the Torah who disregard this observation.
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R' Moshe Y. Gluck asked:

> Shulchan Aruch begins that one should be Misgaber K'ari laamod
> baboker. I'm no zoologist, but I looked at a few youtube
> videos, and if they are any indication, lions don't wake up too
> quickly. They roll, they yawn, they twitch, they look around,
> they stay where they were for a bit. Does anyone have an
> explanation for this comparison?

I heard this question many decades ago, and the answer was that indeed, one
should NOT jump out of bed immediately upon consciousness, but that one
should become awake and aware, stretch a bit, and begin the day. Sometimes
people confuse being prompt with being rushed, but all that is meant here
is that we should not dawdle and waste time.

Akiva Miller
____________________________________________________________
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On 25/11/2013 9:16 AM, Kenneth Miller wrote:
> I heard this question many decades ago, and the answer was that
> indeed, one should NOT jump out of bed immediately upon
> consciousness, but that one should become awake and aware, stretch a
> bit, and begin the day. Sometimes people confuse being prompt with
> being rushed, but all that is meant here is that we should not dawdle
> and waste time.

But the time that one should wait is as long as it takes to say Modeh Ani.


-- 
Zev Sero               A citizen may not be required to offer a 'good and
z...@sero.name          substantial reason' why he should be permitted to
                        exercise his rights. The right's existence is all
                        the reason he needs.
                            - Judge Benson E. Legg, Woollard v. Sheridan

 From today's Hakhel email bulletin


Special Note Two:  We provide the following p'sakim of HaRav Shmuel 
Kamenetsky, Shlita, as excerpted from the Sefer Koveitz Halachos by 
Rabbi Doniel Kleinman, Shlita. As with all Halacha, one should ask 
his own Rav or Posek for a definitive ruling in his particular case 
or situation:


1.  Although one may not use a combination of oil and candles for his 
Neiros, one may use different oils on any given night, because they 
are considered similar enough to each other.



2.  One need not use the candle that was used as the candle to light 
the Neiros Chanukah as his Shamash.



3.  Even if the glass cups which are inserted into a Menorah cannot 
stand on their own because of the narrow piece of glass that fits 
snugly into the Menorah, one can consider the cup to still be a 
Kli--for it is specifically manufactured to be used in this way.



4.  One need not clean out his glass cup from oil residue of the 
previous night, for the residue is considered "shiurei mitzvah", and 
is not ma'us.  Similarly, yesterday's used wicks may light better 
than new wicks, and accordingly, one may lechatchila use the previous 
night's wicks to light with.



5.  There is no Hiddur Mitzvah in oil burning for longer than 
one-half hour after lighting.  However, there is still a Ma'alah in 
putting in more oil as long as people are still passing by--for there 
is greater Pirsumei Nissa.  Pirsumei Nissa does not apply to Akum 
viewing the Neiros, but it does apply to non-Shomrei Torah U'Mitzvos 
who can view the Neiros out of your window.  In actuality, there is 
no difference between lighting in the dining room or bedroom--one 
should light where there is the greatest Pirsumei Nissa.



6.  The Halacha that the Neiros Chanukah be lechatchila lit more than 
three and less than ten tefachim above the ground applies if one 
places his Menorah at the doorway.  However, if one places his 
Menorah on the window sill, then the flame of the Ner is recognizable 
even above ten tefachim, and the neiros may be lit there lechatchila, 
even if the flames of the Neiros will be above ten tefachim from the floor.



7.  One should wait for his wife to light if she is not home at the 
initial candle lighting time.



8.  It is better for the Ba'al HaBayis to designate someone else to 
light on time as his Shaliach, rather than push off the lighting 
until later so that the Ba'al HaBayis will be able to light by 
himself.  This is true even if the Ba'al HaBayis is always at work at 
this time on weekdays, and will have a Shaliach lighting for him 
every week night!



9.  It is better to light with wax candles at the earliest time to 
light, than to light with oil even a little bit later.



10.  If the Shamash goes out within a half hour of lighting, and no 
other electric lights are on, one should relight the Shamash.



11.  If the Brachos on Hadlakas Neiros are recited out of order, one 
is still Yotzei.  However, if after the Brachos one said something 
unrelated to the lighting--even HaNeiros Halallu which should be 
recited later, then he must recite the Brachos again.  Similarly, if 
one mistakenly recited Shehechiyanu on the second night after 
reciting the first two Brachos, he must recite the first two Brachos again.



12.  If somebody is traveling in a car from the time of Hadlakas 
Neiros until the morning, and no one is lighting in his home, he 
should stop off at the side of the road, and light Neiros Chanukah in 
the car with a Bracha.  Even if they are lighting at home, but 
because of his traveling he will not otherwise see Neiros Chanukah 
that night, he should light in the car, having in mind not to be 
Yotzei with the lighting in the home so that he can make a Bracha on 
his lighting.  Similarly, if a guest wants to light on his own, he 
should not do so with a Bracha if Neiros are otherwise being lit in 
his home, unless he has specific intent not to be Yotzei with the 
lighting back in his home.



13.  One may extinguish the Neiros after they have stayed lit for the 
shiur of a half-hour, and one may even benefit from them after the 
half-hour period.  The Minhag, however, is not to use the Neiros for 
one's personal benefit even after the half-hour period has 
passed.  If one needs to do so, he should first extinguish the Neiros 
and then relight them.



14.  A son or son in-law at his parents or in law's home for Shabbos 
Chanukah should light at their home on Motzei Shabbos even if he 
intends to return to his own home that night, and he does not even 
have to eat Melave Malka in their home.

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The NISHMAS AVRAHAM (YD 155) records the words of RAV SHLOMO ZALMAN
AUERBACH zt'l: "It is possible that whatever practice is treated lightly in
people's eyes fits into the oft-quoted dictum, 'Shomer Pesa'im Hashem' --
'Hashem protects the fools' (Tehilim 116:6)." Accordingly, since this is
the prevalent practice, one is allowed to be lenient and undergo an
operation which has an acceptable level of danger to most people.

Does one Bentsch HaGomel for this type surgery?
I think yes because it is still an activity that is performed by
professionals.

Skiing in spite of its risks is performed by the ordinary chap.
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On Sun, Nov 24, 2013 at 12:38:17AM -0000, Chana Luntz wrote:
: This feeds in to another article that RSN posted on Areivim at:
:> http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/why-dress-modestly-kakha/ where R' Eliezer
:> Melamed brings that when girls ask why they have to dress tzniusly, the
:> answer needs to be "Kacha" 

: An example paragraph is as follows that latter article is as follows:
:> Most children and teenagers love playing on the computer, but on Shabbat -- 
:> miraculously -- they don't! Why? Is it because they were lectured on the
:> importance of Shabbat, and given profound explanations about how playing
:> games on the computer harms the sanctity of Shabbat? No! They don't play
:> because halakha forbids it. As time goes on, details about the sanctity of
:> Shabbat can also be discussed.

We say in a birkhas hamitzvah "asher qidishanu bemitzvosav
vetizvanu". Both ways of approaching a mitzvah are important --
"connecting" to what one can of its meaning, and grasping for sanctity,
as well as "ana avda deQBH" simply doing it because "vetzivanu".

...
: Because of this, just saying "kacha" to these girls is far more likely
: than with keeping shabbas, to give the impression that actually there
: are no real sources.

There is a bigger problem, "kakha" doesn't work so well when the din doesn't
have rigid lines; the more context dependence, the more the person needs to
know how to judge appropriateness based on context.

IOW, "kakha" works well for Das Moshe, but I don't see how it can
effectively teach Das Yehudis. You end up with arbitrary rules, and
girls who wear overly taut pencil skirts -- that do indeed extend below
their knees.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             One who kills his inclination is as though he
mi...@aishdas.org        brought an offering. But to bring an offering,
http://www.aishdas.org   you must know where to slaughter and what
Fax: (270) 514-1507      parts to offer.        - R' Simcha Zissel Ziv

 From http://ohr.edu/this_week/insights_into_halacha/5610

As with many issues in halacha there are different approaches to 
Thanksgiving observance. In fact, Rav Moshe Feinstein alone has 
written four different responsa on topic[9]. Although in the earlier 
teshuvos he seems to be against the idea of a Thanksgiving 
celebration - possibly there were more religious connotations 
involved in the early 1960's celebrations than in the 1980's - 
nevertheless, in his later ones he allows a Thanksgiving observance 
(he notes that it is not a religious celebration) with turkey being 
served, as long as it is not seen as an obligatory annual 
celebration[10], but rather as a periodical 'simchas reshus'. All the 
same, Rav Moshe concludes that it is still preferable not to have a 
celebration b'davka for Thanksgiving.

Other contemporary Gedolim who allowed eating turkey on Thanksgiving 
include Rav Eliezer Silver, Rav Yosef Dov (J.B.) Soloveitchik (the 
Boston Gaon)[11], Rav Yehuda Hertzl Henkin, and the Rivevos 
Efraim[12]. They maintain that Thanksgiving is "only a day of thanks 
and not, Heaven forbid, for idol celebration", therefore eating 
turkey on Thanksgiving cannot be considered Chukos HaGoyim.

Yet, other contemporary authorities disagree. Rav Yitzchok Hutner[13] 
is quoted as maintaining that the establishment of Thanksgiving as an 
annual holiday that is based on the Christian calendar is, at the 
very least, closely associated with Avodah Zarah and therefore 
prohibited. He explains that its annual observance classifies it as a 
'holiday' and celebrating Gentile holidays is obviously not permitted.

Similarly, Rav Menashe Klein[14] ruled that it is a prohibited to 
celebrate Thanksgiving. Aside for citing the Gra's opinion, which 
would prohibit any such celebration, he mentions that although the 
Thanksgiving holiday was originally established by (Pilgrims) 
rejoicing over their own survival, that they didn't starve due to 
their finding the turkey, and might not be considered Chukos HaGoyim, 
nevertheless there is another prohibition involved. In Yoreh De'ah 
(148, 7), the Shulchan Aruch, based on a Mishna in Maseches Avodah 
Zara (8a), rules that if an idolater makes a personal holiday for 
various reasons (birthday, was let out of jail, etc.) and at that 
party he thanks his gods, it is prohibited to join in that 
celebration. Rav Klein posits that the same would apply to 
Thanksgiving, as it commemorates the original Pilgrim Thanksgiving, 
thanking God for the turkey and their survival, and would be 
certainly prohibited, and possibly even Biblically.

An analogous ruling was given by Rav Dovid Cohen (of Gevul Ya'avetz), 
and Rav Feivel Cohen (author of the Badei HaShulchan)[15], albeit for 
different reasons.

See the above URL for more. YL



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