Avodah Mailing List

Volume 30: Number 140

Mon, 15 Oct 2012

• 1. Re: Qualifications to Give Hashgacha (Akiva Miller)
• 2. Qualifications to Give Hashgacha (Prof. Levine)
• 3. Re: No "Nishmas" on Hoshanah Rabba (Akiva Miller)
• 4. Re: No "Nishmas" on Hoshanah Rabba (Micha Berger)
• 5. Re: Qualifications to Give Hashgacha (Zev Sero)
• 6. l'mori sheyichyeh (actually abbreviated lamed mem, shin yud heh) (David Riceman)
• 7. Re: naanuim with hoshanos (David Riceman)
• 8. Re: qualifications to give hashgacha (Elazar M. Teitz)
• 9. giving a hasgacha (Eli Turkel)
• 10. Kashrus Supervision Required for Choshen Mishpat Reasons (Meir Rabi)

R' Rafi Goldmeier wrote:
> doesnt "eid echad ne'eman be'issurin" actually mean that we dont
> need hashgocho and hechsher organizations? eid echad ne'eman
> actually means that the proprietor of any food establishment is
> trusted. It does not mean that it must be known he is a reliable
> person - it means he is assumed to be a reliable person, unless
> known otherwise.

My understanding is more like R' Zev Sero's comments, which distinguish
between a person's home and his business. But even if this is correct,
it is only correct in a halachic sense, not in a practical sense.

In other words, nowadays there is a great deal of manufacturing knowledge
which the average person must be presumed to NOT have. Therefore, although
I *might* be able to trust an otherwise-unknown kippah-wearing Jew when he
says, "This meat is 100% kosher", because it is *theoretically* possible
for an individual to have shechted and kashered it properly. In contrast,
I think it would be foolish to trust him when he says, "This tomato juice
is 100% kosher," because I can't imagine have an ordinary individual would
have enough information to make that determination. For example, isn't it
possible that the factory had processed hot clam-flavored tomato juice
on the same equipment, and less than 24 hours previously? How would an
ordinary individual know that, unless he worked in this field?

Akiva Miller

At 09:40 AM 10/12/2012, Rafi Goldmeier wrote:

>doesnt "eid echad ne'eman be'issurin" actually mean that we dont need
>hashgocho and hechsher organizations? eid echad ne'eman actually means
>that the proprietor of any food establishment is trusted. It does not
>mean that it must be known he is a reliable person - it means he is
>assumed to be a reliable person, unless known otherwise.
>
>So, on that concept, why do we need hechsher organizations? As you said,
>the Torah does not place restrictions on this halacha, so we should
>trust every owner or administrator of a food establishment to tell us
>his food is kosher or mehadrin. I am even willing to submit that this
>would only apply if the owner/manager is a frum Jew. But in such a
>situation, why would a hechsher be needed?

Someone who works in kashrus told me the 
following story.  I no longer recall who the rov 
involved was,  but he was someone of considerable 
stature. I think it was either the Chasam Sofer or the first Satmar rebbe.

There was once a shochet who was considered 
reliable regarding his shechita.  He wanted to 
open a butcher store and claimed that since he 
was considerable reliable when it came to his 
shechita,  he did not need any supervision on his 
store.  The rov said that he did need supervision 
on his butcher.  When it came to shechita,  it 
did not matter if the animal was found to be 
kosher or not.  The shochet was paid for his 
work.  However, in the butcher store he was 
nogeah b'davar since his parnassa was determined 
by how much money the store made.  Therefore he needed supervision.

>It seems to me that  "eid echad ne'eman 
>be'issurin"  works when there are no other 
>circumstances involved. However, when money is 
>involved, I would think that things are 
>different.  How many times have we seen that 
>people do all sorts of nefarious things for money.


 From http://tinyurl.com/d2p4enl   The talk is at 
<http://downl
oad.bcbm.org/Media/RavWeiss/Sefer%20Vayikra/Tazriah/Rav%20Weiss%20Tazria%20
5772%20English%20Kashrus%20Verification.mp3>
HARav Asher Weiss -Metzora 5772: Kashrus Verification

Why cant we rely on eid echad neeman bissurin (one witness is sufficient
in cases of ritual prohibition) in kashrut supervision? (ironic to me
this was the starting point of RN Alperts ZL response to me when I asked
him about a kashrut supervision).

RAWs opinion is that eid echad is not a rule to neemanut (trustworthiness)
but in hanhaga (how to act) that in case of doubt you can rely on a
single witness (proofs include there is no testimony and no beit din).

However, over the years the Rabbis make fences/judgments (e.g. requiring
a ritual slaughterer to show his knife). So today (see chachmat adam
200 years ago) we dont rely on anyone who has a monetary interest (me
but then what about the agency being paid?).

Then discussion of one of my favorite topics Chazal and statistics. RAW
says out loud what Ive whispered to my chaburah Chazal did not engage
in statistics! First he discusses why a miyut shachiach (normally found
minority?) is of concern (why not just say rov [majority] is sufficient?)
Perhaps because of concern for margin of error. Then on to miyut hamatzui
(material minority) and the famous 10% rule of the Mishkinot Yaakov he
feels tshuva is misread; while it does mention 10% with some interesting
proofs, the conclusion is that its just about whats common and the real
problem is defining common in age where a shocheit may shecht 100X as
many animals in the old days. Thats why we steer clear of doubt!!!!! Oy,
if only they would ask an actuary?


Re: Not to give Ne'emanus to Any Person who sells food products 

The talk at http://tinyurl.com/8f3ufyd  a little less than about half 
way through deals with this and explains why we do not do this.  He 
also talks about eating in people's homes and making sure that the 
person is reliable.  Clearly Eid Echad Neeman b'issurim has limitations.

He says we do not give ne'emanus to any person when there is a 
monetary incentive in our times.  YL

R' Micha Berger wrote:
> Usually when we enlarge Pesuqei Dezimra, we add Nishmas before
> Yishtabach. So, after saying more praise than usual, we end by
> admitting that "ilu shiru malei shirah kayam" there is no way we
> could have added enough.
>
> Nice thought, but... How then do we justify Hashanah Rabba, where
> we add peraqim of Tehillim, but no such disclaimer?

I had never thought of Nishmas as a disclaimer, as described here. I had
simply seen Nishmas as additional extended praise, and that includes the
"ilu" section.

But now that this "disclaimer" idea has been mentioned, it reminds me of
another situation. As I recall, we are specifically told to limit the
praises in the first bracha of the Amidah to the standard list, and to
not add to them. Despite that, there are situations where additions *are*
made -- the piyutim added by many shuls on certain special occasions,
and by almost all (Ashkenazi) shuls on Yamim Noraim. It is noteworthy
that those piyutim are always introduced with the paragraph of "Misod
Chachamim". I had always understood Misod to be a sort of License To
Make A Hefsek. But after hearing RMB's "disclaimer" idea, I know wonder
if it might also be a License To Add Praises.

(An important distinction would be that I don't know of any limitation
on the praises of Pesukei D'Zimra, whereas IIRC the first bracha of
Amidah is limited to the praises which appear in Chumash (or is it in
Tanach?). Thus, RMB's question about Hoshana Raba might be answered by
saying that no disclaimer is needed because there's really no problem
with adding extra.)

Akiva Miller

On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 02:55:53PM +0000, Akiva Miller wrote:
:                    As I recall, we are specifically told to limit the
: praises in the first bracha of the Amidah to the standard list, and to
: not add to them. Despite that, there are situations where additions *are*
: made -- the piyutim added by many shuls on certain special occasions...

They aren't additional praises in the gemara's sense (Berakhos 33b). R'
Chanina's talmid called G-d "haKel, haGadol, haGibor, vehaNora, vehaAdir,
vehaIzuz, vehaYir'ui, haChazaq, vehaAmitz, vehaVadai vehaNikhbad." This is
about adding the nouns / adjectives, not simply poetic rephrasings of
pre-existing ideas.

Also, it might be because he was embellishing MRAH's list rather than
a problem with embellishing Birkhas Avos as a whole. After all, the text
of Birkhas Avos wasn't etched in stone yet. Nusach EY, even after shas
was closed, continued after MRAH's four adjectives
    .... Keil Elyon,
    Qonei shamayim va'aretz,
    Magineinu uMagein avoseinu,
    Mivtacheinu bekhol dor vador.
    BA"H Magein Avraham.

(Notice that the summarized repetition of the Amidah said Fri night
reflects this version, not ours.)

So the list of nouns / adjectives wasn't fixed, so that we can speak
about additions.

Last, the reason for my saying "nouns / adjectives"... The separation
isn't clear in Lashon haQodesh. Compare "haGadol, haGibor vehaNora" in
"the Great, Mighty and Awe-inspiriing G-d" and the Gra's interpretation
that these are four nouns: "the G-d, the Great One, the Mighty One, and
the One Who inspires awe." (That this is a list with 4 items is also
implied by "HaKeil besaatzumus uzekha, haGadol bikhvod shemekha...",
which treats haKeil as part of a list with the other three.)

:-)BBii!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             I always give much away,
mi...@aishdas.org        and so gather happiness instead of pleasure.
http://www.aishdas.org           -  Rachel Levin Varnhagen
Fax: (270) 514-1507

On 12/10/2012 10:34 AM, Akiva Miller wrote:
> In other words, nowadays there is a great deal of manufacturing knowledge
> which the average person must be presumed to NOT have. Therefore, although
> I*might*  be able to trust an otherwise-unknown kippah-wearing Jew when he
> says, "This meat is 100% kosher", because it is*theoretically*  possible
> for an individual to have shechted and kashered it properly. In contrast,
> I think it would be foolish to trust him when he says, "This tomato juice
> is 100% kosher," because I can't imagine have an ordinary individual would
> have enough information to make that determination. For example, isn't it
> possible that the factory had processed hot clam-flavored tomato juice
> on the same equipment, and less than 24 hours previously? How would an
> ordinary individual know that, unless he worked in this field?

I don't think you trust that the meat is kosher because he could have
shechted it himself!  On the contrary, if he said he shechted it himself
I'd start having qualms.  You trust that it's kosher because you assume
that, being a kosher-keeping Jew, he bought it from a shop he knows to be
reliable - either because he knows and trusts the owner, or because it has
a good hechsher.  Similarly, you trust him that his tomato juice is kosher
not because he made it himself or visited the factory himself, but because
he either knows and trusts the manufacturer or checked that it had a good
hechsher.


On 12/10/2012 10:01 AM, Prof. Levine wrote:
> Someone who works in kashrus told me the following story.  I no longer
> recall who the rov involved was,  but he was someone of considerable
> stature. I think it was either the Chasam Sofer or the first Satmar rebbe.

> There was once a shochet who was considered reliable regarding his shechita.
> He wanted to open a butcher store and claimed that since he was considerable
> reliable when it came to his shechita,  he did not need any supervision on
> his store.  The rov said that he did need supervision on his butcher.  When
> it came to shechita,  it did not matter if the animal was found to be kosher
> or not.  The shochet was paid for his work.  However, in the butcher store
> he was nogeah b'davar since his parnassa was determined by how much money
> the store made.  Therefore he needed supervision.

It's a well-known story, but if phrased as a halachic requirement
it's contrary both to Shulchan Aruch and to common practise in small
communities until less than a generation ago.

-- 
Zev Sero
z...@sero.name

RJR:

<<Just seems like a very odd distribution - almost as if there were a 
specific baal tosfot who wrote on maakot and little else?>>

See Urbach's book Ba'alei HaTosafos pp. 658-659.  In Makos "mori" refers 
to Rabbeinu Peretz.  Urbach attributes the Tosafos on Makos to an 
anonymous student.

David Riceman

RMC:

<<The rama says that our custom is to both do naanuim with hoshanos, and 
to bang it on the floor. I always thought that naanuim with hoshanos 
meant give it a little shake, since I do not see anyone in the standard 
yeshivas (Ner Israel, Lakewood, telz, etc) doing anything more than this.>>

The original minhag was to hold the hoshanos together with the lulav 
during Hoshana Raba.  This changed under Lurianic influence.  See the 
introduction to the Goldschmidt/Frankel Mahzor for Sukkos, p. 21, notes 
78-79.

David Riceman

     Reacting to an article entitled "Why Foods Need Hashgacha: The Differences Between
Recommended and Non-Recommended Hashgachos," RMartin Brody wrote, in
response to the article's statement that "Good examples of issues in
Kashrut which the lay person might not be aware
of including: processing ingredients not required to be listed	in the
ingredients list,"  >*Misleading.Any substance used in machinery that
can migrate to the food
product must be listed*<	 However, the quote from the article is in
no way misleading,  The following is from the FDA's website: "Is it
necessary to declare trace ingredients?Answer: It depends on whether the
trace ingredient is present in a significant amount and has a function in
the finished food. If a substance is an incidental additive and has no
function or technical effect in the finished product, then it need not be
declared on the label."      He also took issue with the statement in the
article that "natural flavors means the source is natural and it has flavor
(e.g.natural vanilla flavor could come from a chicken, not a vanilla bean,
and
still be called natural vanilla flavor)," and wrote

>*Again, misleading. Natural vanilla flavor could indeed come from chicken,
but if it does, then the chicken is a significant ingredient and MUST be
listed, as any major component of "natural flavors" must be.<	   
								  If
vanilla were to be derived from chicken, it does _not_ make chicken a
significant ingredient.  The chicken is not itself in the product;
something derived from the chicken is, but its source need not be listed. 
Witness glycerin: it can be derived from sources as disparate as animals
and petroleum; no source is ever listed.  So, too, in this hypothetical
case: vanilla would have to be listed, but its source wouldn't.     
Finally, adressing the article's statement that "canned products may
require technical issue resolution (e.g. bugs, bishul akum)," he comments
>* Still misleading. Look for bugs yourself. If you can't see them, they
are
not there. And as for bishul akum, not sure what product he is talking
about, not fit for a kings table or can be eaten raw take care of
everything I can think of, but even if there is something, steaming and
smoking is not cooking*<

     While bugs which can't be seen because of their size are consider "not
     there," if they are big enough but cannot be seen because their color
     is the same as that of the food, such as the thrips in vegetables,
     they are most definitely there, and are prohibited.  As for bishul
     aku"m, is he asserting that there are no canned foods in the pantry in
     Buckingham Palace? EMT
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> Are there any halachic qualifications for someone to give supervision?
 If so, what are they?

The raabanut in Israel has recently announced that all masgichim must pass
an exam.
The article didnt say but I assume it means to be a masgiach within the
raabanut

<<Being an observant Jew.  The basis of hashgacha is eid echad ne'eman
be'issurin.  This is an explicit halacha mid'oraisa, and the Torah
does not place any restrictions on it.
There is one small machshir in NYC who, knowing that he is not well-
known, posts letters in all his places from a well-known rov certifying
that he is a trustworthy person, and that one may rely on his hechsher. >>

I disagree - as others have pointed out being a masgiach today is not a
question of
being an erlicher yid - it is a question of knowledge of food chemistry.
Eid achad neeman ne'sissurim doesnt mean mean that we believe one person
who tells about details of an electric circuit or about red X when he is
not an expert in
the field.

There is a famous psak of RCS when asked to choose a chazzan between a
very religious person without a voice and a regular person with a great
voice and
knowledge of the tefillah. Rav Chaim answered that the first requirement of
being a chazzan is
being a chazzan. Everything else is secondary.

Similarly giving evidence about technical matters the first requirement is
knowing the technology.
Being a baki in SA comes second. There have been too many stories of
heimeshe hasgachot
who gave hashgachot to treif because they didnt realize where some chemical
substance was revided from
-- 
Eli Turkel
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Hashgacha is required because of Mamonos, money matters. It just happens to
be that the money is acquired through various foods which is a matter of
Issur VeHetter.

It is a question that has to do with evaluating the temptation of making
huge profits versus the risk of detection and the consequences.

The Monsey Meat Scandal was not a question of YD. It was a Choshen Mishpat
issue. A long article in the Hamodia magazine one year after the Monsey
Fiasco, interviewed about 8 rabbonim from various Kashrus orgs and printed
their responses. Most said, NOTHING has changed; a couple said things have
absolutely changed and this will never happen again. included below.


The HaModia magazine [Section 9 Ellul 5767, August 23 2007] interviewed
rabbis of various Kashrut organisations one year following the Monsey meat
scandal and published their responses.

Moshe Elefant OU
I have three important points to relay about the changes that have occurred
since the kashrus scandal took place in Monsey last year.

First, the fact that we were able to uncover this terrible crisis is
already a sign that we are headed in the right direction and that we are
being vigilant in this area. [According to most accounts suspicions were
first aroused quite by accident. Verification came about by breaking into
the butcher shop and inspecting the cool-rooms. Even then, there was no
absolutely clear proof that the meat was not Kosher: the meat did not taste
as salty as Kosher meat usually does, some chickens still had kidneys
attached which is unusual for Kosher chickens and they did not "look like"
Kosher chickens. Apparently the question of saltiness had already been
asked by customers who were told that, "a new low sodium salt is being
used."]

Second, here at the Orthodox Union where most slaughterhouses in the U.S.
are certified for kashrus, we have instituted a number of important changes
in our whole system. [What are these "important changes" that have already
been implemented? Why is the rabbi reluctant to delineate these important
changes?] This is especially true in the packaging process, where we hope
to create a system in which each piece of meat or chicken has a hologram,
with its own UPC code that is tracked by computer. [Are these important
changes that HAVE been made or important changes that WILL be made? It is
now 5+ years since this "hope to create" has been uttered, nothing has yet
been done other than the seemingly disingenuous platitudes uttered to
assuage those asking questions, relegate these issues to the back burner
and pray that they die a quiet death.] The labelling of the holograms will
be done only by the mashgichim, and they will be the only ones who have
access to these seals. [They are unable to maintain control over the labels
they are presently overseeing, why will anything change when they introduce
holographic labels? They apparently have no system in place to monitor and
audit the distribution and use of labels.] This system has already been
installed in the Montreal based Marvid Chicken slaughterhouse, we hope that
in the very near future this system will also be implemented in
slaughterhouses in the United States. [Many years have already passed and
there is not the slightest indication that any of these initiatives are
being implemented. Besides, these systems are far from foolproof, rumours
are rife of Kosher meat seals being freely circulated beyond the safe hands
of the Mashgichim. Besides even if such a system is implemented,
considering the price difference between K and non-K, there is still more
than sufficient incentive to pose serious threats. Take for example the
multi-million dollar efforts of the music and video industry to prevent
piracy which took all of a couple of hours for the hackers to undo and
publicise. This approach can not offer a safeguard to prevent
substitution.]

Third, we are presently working on an education program geared toward our
Mashgichim as well as the consumer to teach them what to look out for in
kashrus. When you know what to look for, things look different. [We are
still waiting to see this initiative: how the Kosher consumer can detect
the fraudulently labelled Kosher meat that the supervising rabbi cant or
does not wish to detect. What can a consumer do to avoid being duped?]

Hillel Weinberger HisAchDus HaRabbanim
One thing is evident after the kashrus scandal, and that is that the
tzibbur is worthy, the tzibbur is holy, Jews want to be good and to do
good. [That?s right. There never would have been such an outcry had the
luxury cars sold by the reputable Gd fearing salesman been discovered to be
cheap imitations only worth a fraction of what they were paid for.]

The scandal caused a storm in all chareidi circles, be it the yeshivishe
crowd, the Chassidishe crowd, and among the more modern circles; all of us
made changes in kashrus. [What changes should the consumers make if the
businesses are cheating them and the Supervising rabbis are not capable of
preventing the substitutions?]

It is interesting to note that even one year later the subject is still
very fresh and on the minds of everyone. People are taking it seriously and
are ready to work towards a solution, and that I think, is admirable.
[Praised be The Lord.]

Many individuals who were tainted, either directly or indirectly, by the
terrible tragedy that occurred took upon themselves certain Kabbalos and
measures of teshuva to atone for the terrible Michshol that took place. I
know one family in Nitra Mount Kisco that had Keilim that were tainted by
the meat from Monsey [somehow they had not consumed non-K meat - that would
be too horrible to contemplate; they must have just received a gift of a
used pot that had been contaminated with the absorbed flavour of the non-K
meat] The family took upon themselves not to have ice cream for a whole
year to atone for that. It is no small feat for a family of many small
children to get through the long hot summer without a single drop of ice
cream. [One wonders what penance is being undertaken by the rabbi and the
Kosher agency at the helm of this tragedy.]

Yechiel Babad, Tartikover Rav
It is difficult to say how things have changed since Iast year because what
was kosher in the past continues to be Kosher and what wasn't kosher in the
past still isn't. [In short nothing has changed.]

What is certain is that people are more watchful they don't buy blindly
anymore, and they read the small letters on the package to ensure that the
product has a reliable Hechsher. [The Monsey shop bore a very reliable
Hechsher with all the necessary fine print.]

It is my feeling that if the Rabbanim see that the tzibbur is particular
about kashrus, they feel a stronger responsibility to provide them with
products that are kosher LeMehadrin Min HaMehadrin. [So, if the Rabbanim
are not adequately responding to the imperatives of Gd's Law, it is the
consumers alone who are to blame. The consumers can help the Rabbanim feel
a greater responsibility in their holy work.]

Yosef Moshe Greenwald, Tzelemer Rav
Things are just like they were a year ago. In the beginning, right after
the scandal occurred, the word was that the repackaging of meat would stop.
But that hasn't happened. Recently, while in a [non-Jewish] supermarket in
the mountains, I was shocked to discover a large sign that said the
following: "We are open seven days a week, and we sell glatt kosher meat."
How does it look that a year after this terrible story in Monsey, Jews are
buying meat in these kinds of stores? [What a heap of nonsense. Is there
ANY problem for a supermarket to sell Kosher or Glatt Kosher food on
Shabbos? It was packed and sealed BEFORE Shabbos] In short, things are just
like they were last year.

Menachem Meir Weissmandel, Nitra Mosey Rav
People are asking questions and are looking into matters pertaining to
kashrus; they are more aware than they used to be. [Meaning, people are
more aware that there is no guarantee that the food which is marked as
Kosher is in fact Kosher.]

What is painful to see is that after what happened last year, we spoke
about ways to rectify the problem, such as putting holograms on the boxes
of meat so they could be tracked. I do not comprehend why a courier company
can have tracking numbers so that the company knows exactly where the
package is at all times, and we cannot have the same system to track the
meat during the long road from the time it leaves the slaughterhouse until
it arrives on the store shelves. As long as this hologram system is not
instituted, the root of the problem remains. I think it is the only
solution to the problem. [One can only wonder in astonishment when
considering that this rabbi, who was responsible for the biggest Kosher
meat manufacturer in the USA, Argi Processors, did not implement this
system for the Kosher meat under his own supervision.]

The way to achieve this is to launch a campaign to educate the public that
we need to direct all our energy toward improve the situation in kashrus.
[What does this have to do with the public? They are already paying grossly
inflated prices for Kosher meat and can not point to anything that suggests
their money is being used to provide a superior service and properly
audited authentic Kosher meat.]

Then again, there has definitely been a change for the better in the field
of Kashrus, especially regarding insects in fresh food. Nowadays, people
are a lot more vigilant about insects in fruits and vegetables, an area
which was very much neglected in the past. [A complete misdirection of the
conversation and an almost sinister perspective suggesting that this
perversion of Kashrus and treachery of the Kosher consumers, was a "good"
thing to have occurred.]

Avrohom Pollack, Star-K
Certainly, last year's incident shocked both kosher consumers and kashrus
agencies out of their complacency in the area of kashrus. [What is the
complacency of the Kosher consumers? As far as the agencies are concerned
it just proved that no matter how negligent you may be there are few if any
negative consequences to fear. SEE]

Besides the greater scrutiny and vigilance over which individuals may have
any control over kashrus issues, there is now much more emphasis on
verifying that other agencies and individual Rabbanim HaMachshirim also
exercise similar diligence in their own certifications. Today, in the
post-scandal kashrus world, it is much more common for reputable agencies
to make inquiries regarding the identities of mashgichim and the frequency
of visitations before accepting another kashrus agency's products for use
either as an ingredient or in a certified establishment.

Nevertheless, it is imperative for kosher consumers to realize that the
events last year were a complete aberration of what normally occurs in
establishments with a reputable certification. According to halacha people
have the right to trust their Rabbanim. And certainly, a Jew who is shomer
Torah U'Mitzvos should not be suspected of wrongdoing without any evidence
to the contrary. [That is not true. All Poskim we have consulted, including
HaRav M Heineman of Star-K Kashrus, insist that we are not to rely on a
person's personal appearance of orthodoxy where A) an enormous profit can
be accumulated B) by simple deception C) that is most unlikely to be
detected by incompetent or unwilling Kosher agencies.]

Shaye Reichman, VaAd HaKashrus of Queens
The whole kashrus industry has undergone a transformation since the
scandal; the vigilance is much stronger than it used to be. We have more
mashgichim than we used to, we double-check the invoices from the various
plaints, and all repackaging is done only in the presence of a mashgiach
temidi. [This rabbi is living in Noddy Land. Perhaps he should compare
notes with those who are quoted earlier in this article, Rabbi Yechiel
Babad, Tartikover Rav and Rabbi Yosef Moshe Greenwald, Tzelemer Rav.]

Best,

Meir G. Rabi
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