Volume 30: Number 91
Thu, 12 Jul 2012
Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
Message: 1
From: David Cohen <ddco...@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 13:22:53 +0300
Subject: [Avodah] O(n^2) algorithm for matrix multiplication
I disagree with R' David Riceman's assertion that his search for an O(n^2)
algorithm for matrix multiplication is "na'arishkeit" that would wouldn't
be engaged in by a "total oveid Hashem."
I see this activity as having inherent value, aside from the potential
parnasah value and the value of having recreation activities, which have
already been mentioned. First off, such an algorithm could be implemented
and used in software that would be significantly more efficient (when n is
very large) than what is currently available. This could enable the
solving of problems that can't be efficiently solved by computer today, and
that could have a direct positive impact on people's lives. Just like
scientific research, abstract mathematical research can contribute to
yishuvo shel olam. Even outside of research, I believe that most
professions contribute something positive to society, even when the
"contribution" seems indirect. If you are take any part in a system that
enables society and the economy to function properly, which in turn enables
people to live respectably, it seems self-evident that this has positive
spiritual value. This is my kavanah in avodat Hashem as I go to work each
day, in addition to the kavanah of providing for my family.
Yishuvo shel olam aside, I also see inherent value in learning math: it is
truth. We learn Torah because it is revealed truth, and some of us study
science because it is another reflection of the ways of Hashem, who is
truth. The laws of math are objectively true, independent of their mapping
onto the physical world. I remember that I once shocked a friend when I
said that Hashem, notwithstanding His omnipotence and ability to change any
of the laws of physics, cannot change the value of Pi. I don't mean
changing the semantics -- anybody could say that a circle means something
else, or that 3.14159 means something else -- but the value of Pi is
objectively true, independent of the physical existence of the universe. I
can't think offhand of a pasuk or maamar Chazal that makes this point
explicitly, but it seems self-evident to me that studying such truths can
help us to perfect the brains with which Hashem created us, and this has
spiritual value.
-- D.C.
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Message: 2
From: "Simi Peters" <famil...@actcom.net.il>
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 13:20:52 +0300
Subject: [Avodah] main idea of judaism
Not necessarily. It depends on who you are.
Kol tuv,
Simi Peters
----- Original Message -----
From: Daas Books
To: Simi Peters
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 7:05 PM
Subject: Re: Avodah Digest, Vol 30, Issue 88
It sounds like you are echoing what some others have said, that the ultimate
goal is deveikus....?
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Message: 3
From: "Akiva Miller" <kennethgmil...@juno.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 13:44:43 GMT
Subject: Re: [Avodah] The Main Idea of Judaism
R' David Riceman wrote:
> ... We have a principle (mitzva - aveirah) which
> classifies acts as hiyuvim, issurum, and neutral. We have
> a second principle (for God's sake) which classifies acts
> as virtuous or not.
> But why two principles? Each one by itself fully
> classifies all acts. As far as I can tell your only
> excuse is that you don't approve of the concept of a
> neutral act, but can't jettison the first principle ...
Yes, these two principles are at odds with each other, and it's not simple
to reconcile them. I think maybe I'd describe the first as Theoretical or
L'Halacha, and the second as Practical or L'Maaseh. I'll elaborate:
To jettison the first principle would require us to jettison the word "mutar". But that word appears just about everywhere; how can we ignore it?
On the other hand, I remember discussing this topic once with one of my
rebbeim. He gave me the example of where I can choose betwen learning this
sefer or that sefer. It is absurd to think that either of them would be
listed as assur to learn. And as long as I do spend my time learning, can
it be said that there is a bigger chiyuv to learn from one over the other?
Yet, if one of them will help me grow more than the other, don't I owe it
to myself to avail myself of that opportunity? How dare I squander my time
and energy by learning the one which will help me less! And do I really
think that HaShem doesn't care which I choose? (Keep in mind that I might
not know which sefer is the better one for my situation, but that's really
beside the point.)
And the exact same argument can be made of how I choose to relax: Several
options might *technically* all be in the "mutar" category, but if one will
"recharge my batteries" better than another, or if one will help me grow
spiritually, or if one will help me avoid falling spiritually, how dare I
avoid that choice?
Ultimately, I think this is similar to how we handle concepts like "Asisa
hayashar v'hatov" or "lifnim m'shiras hadin". There are cases where on a
strict view of "chiyuv/issur", we are in "mutar" territory, but if we could
truly do what we want, then what do the concepts of "Asisa hayashar
v'hatov" or "lifnim m'shiras hadin" or "naval birshus haTorah" mean? What
they mean is: (A) "Even if you don't HAVE to do it, you still OUGHT to do
it." and (B) "Even if you don't HAVE to avoid it, you still OUGHT to avoid
it."
And as that rebbe challenged me: Are you really going to do something that you OUGHT NOT do? And with a clear conscience?
I hope we can agree that the issues we're discussing are not at all black-and-white, but are infinite shades of gray, as illustrated by RDR's question here:
RDR asked:
> The Ba'alei Mussar like to advise people to specialize in
> one particular mitzvah (cf. Avos 4:11), and do that
> particularly assiduously and meticulously. Of course its
> impossible for one person to do that with all mitzvos,
> since they compete for resources and attention. RSS
> himself says that he is describing how to implement the
> mitzva of kedoshim tihyu particularly meticulously. But
> what of the person who chooses to specialize in a
> different mitzva which takes less time?
My answer would be this: There seems to be a difference between
implementing "kedoshim tihyu", and implementing "kedoshim tihyu
particularly meticulously". If so, then I would suggest that if one chooses
a different mitzvah, that would be "kedoshim tihyu not quite as
meticulously as otherwise".
Am I splitting hairs? Yes, but I'm just following up on RSS's lead.
RDR again:
> I started this subthread because RAM asserted that the
> only possible legitimate aspiration for a Jew is to be a
> "*total* oveid Hashem". I have always been willing to
> concede that it is a legitimate aspiration, but I
> strongly disagree that it's the ONLY legitimate aspiration.
I'm not sure if I used the word "only" in this context. I'll tell you what:
Even if I did use that word, I'll retract it now and say this: I am willing
to concede that there are many legitimate aspirations, and my point is that
being a "*total* oveid Hashem" is the most ideal aspiration among them.
As I tell my kids: "If you don't aim for the stars, you won't even reach the clouds."
Akiva Miller
____________________________________________________________
Fast, Secure, NetZero 4G Mobile Broadband. Try it.
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Message: 4
From: "M Cohen" <mco...@touchlogic.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 09:38:40 -0400
Subject: [Avodah] LED "tealights" for Shabbos candles
Bidieved you can use them for Shabbos candles
L'chatchila flame is preferred
R Shlomo miller allows our bikur cholim organization to hand them out for
those in hospitals
There is a machlokes if you can make a brocha.
mc
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Message: 5
From: Eli Turkel <elitur...@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 15:34:36 +0300
Subject: [Avodah] treif anatomy
<< : Doesn't treif mean the
: animal has a condition that will soon cause its death? If the farmer does
a
: procedure that creates a hole in the cow's stomach -- but he does it to
: PREVENT the cow's death -- why does it make the cow treif?
RGS notes that tereifos might actually be an exception for the CI, where
in general he would hold nishtanah hateva, nishtanah hadin. But as RDE
replied (later citing CI YD 5:3), here Chazal used G-d-given reshus to
define the limits of a Halakhah leMoshe miSinai. Since it was legislating
(my phrasign), it can only be changed during the 2 millenia of Torah.
Pasq based on Chazal's understanding of metzi'us can be overturned as
our knowledge of the metzi'us improves. >>
To the best of my knowledge this is a chiddush of CI and no one had
mentioned this idea before.
As such I am not sure that it is universally accepted.
As to the question itself I vaguely remember a similar question regarding
"crut shufchah"
i.e. if one does an operation on a man to save his semen producing
abilities but it involves making a hole
--
Eli Turkel
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Message: 6
From: Micha Berger <mi...@aishdas.org>
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 10:28:22 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] LED "tealights" for Shabbos candles
On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 09:38:40AM -0400, M Cohen wrote:
: Bidieved you can use them for Shabbos candles
: L'chatchila flame is preferred
I would think that it makes a difference also what the "them" is.
Incandescent light bulbs provide the light of a hot metal filament. The
heat is (hopefully very slowly) melting the filament. There are shitos
that call turning on a light-bulb havarah, others call it bishul (and yet
others distinguish it from a textbook gacheles shel mateteches). So to
say that's aish is somewhat easier.
In a fluorescent lamp, including the kind the US and EU are phasing
in to replace incandescents, there is also a hot glowing filament, but
that's not the light you're using. (You're using the light produced by a
fluorescent material that is glowing because it is being bombarded with
electrons from tat filament.) I would find that harder to say "me'orei
ha'eish" over, but still, at least the question of aish comes up.
An LED is a semiconductor where atoms in it emit light when their energy
level drops due to electrons jumping across a transmission in how the
semiconductor is "doped". There is no heating. Nothing remotely similar
to the concept of aish as per havarah, mechabeh or bishul. I have even
a harder time picturing the appropriateness of "me'orei ha'eish" on them.
Tir'u baTov!
-Micha
--
Micha Berger The purely righteous do not complain about evil,
mi...@aishdas.org but add justice, don't complain about heresy,
http://www.aishdas.org but add faith, don't complain about ignorance,
Fax: (270) 514-1507 but add wisdom. - R AY Kook, Arpilei Tohar
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Message: 7
From: Micha Berger <mi...@aishdas.org>
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 10:29:40 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] treif anatomy
On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 03:34:36PM +0300, Eli Turkel wrote:
: To the best of my knowledge this is a chiddush of CI and no one had
: mentioned this idea before.
: As such I am not sure that it is universally accepted.
The IM does.
: As to the question itself I vaguely remember a similar question regarding
: "crut shufchah"
: i.e. if one does an operation on a man to save his semen producing
: abilities but it involves making a hole
But the CI himself says this is specific to tereifos in kashrus, and
not in medicine.
Tir'u baTov!
-Micha
--
Micha Berger Live as if you were living already for the
mi...@aishdas.org second time and as if you had acted the first
http://www.aishdas.org time as wrongly as you are about to act now!
Fax: (270) 514-1507 - Victor Frankl, Man's search for Meaning
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Message: 8
From: Micha Berger <mi...@aishdas.org>
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 11:34:46 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] LED "tealights" for Shabbos candles
On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 10:08:28AM -0400, Zev Sero wrote:
> But we're not discussing "borei me'orei ha'esh"; we're discussing
> "lehadlik ner shel shabbos kodesh" or "shel yom tov", etc. And there
> the mitzvah is the provision of practical light by which one may walk
> around without hurting oneself, and see what one is eating. A LED
> provides this just as well as a candle.
You're correct, crossed wires on my part. But my questions about
the matbeiah have parallels WRT "lehadliq neir" as well. Can turning
on something without setting it on fire be called "hadlaqah"? Deleq
includes to the consumption of the thing being burned; eg see the
idiomatic use in Ovadiah pasuq 18 -- "... uveis Eisav leqash, vedalequ
bahem va'akhalum...". If something that gives light without ustilizing
aish a "neir"?
Maybe we should tell someone to say "leha'ir me'oros shel Shabbos
[Qodesh]" or somesuch.
Tir'u baTov!
-Micha
--
Micha Berger When you come to a place of darkness,
mi...@aishdas.org you don't chase out the darkness with a broom.
http://www.aishdas.org You light a candle.
Fax: (270) 514-1507 - R' Yekusiel Halberstam of Klausenberg zt"l
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Message: 9
From: Zev Sero <z...@sero.name>
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 10:08:28 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] LED "tealights" for Shabbos candles
It seems clear to me that you can make a bracha, since the purpose of
neir shabbos is the light, not the flame. The mitzvah is that in every
room one will use on Friday night there should be enough light not to
bump into or trip over anything; a LED provides that just as well as
candles. And in fact nowadays we all do fulfil most of the mitzvah
with electric lights; I've never heard of anyone nowadays who lights
actual candles in every room, including the bathroom, and yet that is
what the mitzvah requires. Obviously we all agree that electric lights
fulfil the mitzvah, so why not LEDs? Lighting actual candles for the
bracha is a hiddur mitzvah, but only that.
On 12/07/2012 10:28 AM, Micha Berger wrote:
> In a fluorescent lamp,[...] I would find that harder to say "me'orei
> ha'eish" over, but still, at least the question of aish comes up.
> An LED [...] Nothing remotely similar
> to the concept of aish as per havarah, mechabeh or bishul. I have even
> a harder time picturing the appropriateness of "me'orei ha'eish" on them.
But we're not discussing "borei me'orei ha'esh"; we're discussing
"lehadlik ner shel shabbos kodesh" or "shel yom tov", etc. And there
the mitzvah is the provision of practical light by which one may walk
around without hurting oneself, and see what one is eating. A LED
provides this just as well as a candle.
--
Zev Sero
z...@sero.name
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Message: 10
From: Saul Guberman <saulguber...@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 11:29:10 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] LED "tealights" for Shabbos candles
On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 10:28 AM, Micha Berger <mi...@aishdas.org> wrote:
> I would find that harder to say "me'orei
> ha'eish" over, but still, at least the question of aish comes up.
>
That is for havdalah. What you argue is very sound.
The bracha for Shabbos/Yom Tov is l'hadlik ner. How much of a stretch is
it to say that turning a bulb on is lighting. The idea is for there to be
light. The Mishna lists items not to be used because they are a bizayon
due to smell or poor quality. While a bulb is not a wick/candle, it does
give off light.
Saul
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Message: 11
From: "Rich, Joel" <JR...@sibson.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 10:58:15 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] treif anatomy
On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 03:34:36PM +0300, Eli Turkel wrote:
: To the best of my knowledge this is a chiddush of CI and no one had
: mentioned this idea before.
: As such I am not sure that it is universally accepted.
The IM does.
===========================
We may have discussed this already but if you think about it, it does seem odd that no one proposed this idea before the CI.
KT
Joel Rich
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Message: 12
From: Micha Berger <mi...@aishdas.org>
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 12:43:07 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] treif anatomy
On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 10:58:15AM -0400, Rich, Joel wrote:
: We may have discussed this already but if you think about it, it does
: seem odd that no one proposed this idea before the CI.
It depends how long before the CI that many people were that sure of
veterenary medicine for them to assume the gemara's diagnoses wouldn't
hold.
Tir'u baTov!
-Micha
--
Micha Berger Strength does not come from winning. Your
mi...@aishdas.org struggles develop your strength When you go
http://www.aishdas.org through hardship and decide not to surrender,
Fax: (270) 514-1507 that is strength. - Arnold Schwarzenegger
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Message: 13
From: Akiva Blum <yda...@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 20:25:02 +0300
Subject: Re: [Avodah] Egel Zahav
On 12-Jul-12 9:32 AM, Liron Kopinsky wrote:
> It seems to me that there are two distinct paradigms of leadership
> that we see here. The first, that of the Kehuna, is hereditary
> leadership. This leadership represents continuity and a steady
> purpose. The other type of leadership, that of Moshe, is a more
> dynamic, in-the-now type of leadership. This leadership needs to
> inspire the people to act in the present. As a possible answer to your
> question, Ahron was already a leader, but he was the wrong kind of
> leader. The Jewish people needed both, and could not move Ahron from
> one role into the other.
>
except that Aharon wasn't yet a Kohen.
Akiva
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Message: 14
From: cantorwolb...@cox.net
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 12:55:49 -0400
Subject: [Avodah] Egel Zahav
> Ahron was already a leader, but he was the wrong kind of leader.
And the COW was the RIGHT type of leader??
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Message: 15
From: Micha Berger <mi...@aishdas.org>
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 13:54:10 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] Egel Zahav
On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 12:55:49PM -0400, cantorwolb...@cox.net wrote:
:> Ahron was already a leader, but he was the wrong kind of leader.
: And the COW was the RIGHT type of leader??
They thought it was. The cow was Apis, the deity in the Egyptian pantheon
that delivered people's petitions to the other gods. Moshe had an air
of remoteness and loftiness, and they therefore replaced him with a
messenger who was closer to divinity than humanity.
Aharon (oheiv shalom verodeif shalom) they saw as someone who brought
G-d to the people. The preacher in their midst.
(You might want to see
http://www.aishdas.org/asp/2007/06/angels-and-idols.shtml on the cult
of Apis, Rechov'am's religion, Keruvim and Bulls, and how the Rambam's
theory that idolatry was the worship of G-d's entourage that eventually
lost sight of G-d is born out.)
Tir'u baTov!
-Micha
--
Micha Berger It isn't what you have, or who you are, or where
mi...@aishdas.org you are, or what you are doing, that makes you
http://www.aishdas.org happy or unhappy. It's what you think about.
Fax: (270) 514-1507 - Dale Carnegie
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Message: 16
From: Saul.Z.New...@kp.org
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 11:18:58 -0700
Subject: [Avodah] Egel Zahav
1--- at that time every family had kohanim, so aharon shouldnt be
seen as the kohanic role yet.
2--- moshe and aharon not only both went to pharoah together , but
aharon was the actual spokesman
[and those were the only two who RBSO talked to directly [[like
parshat hachodesh]]]
3--- why would we think they need a leader who is an Other-- that was
not in the job requirements in parshat shmot , from what i recall
it really is a good question , why not aharon....
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Message: 17
From: David Riceman <drice...@optimum.net>
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 14:07:16 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] The Main Idea of Judaism
Me:
<<If a change in
perspective >can transform a neutral act into a virtuous act, why can't it
also change a prohibited act into a virtuous act?>>
RCL:
<< Can't it (in extremis)? How do you deal with the concept of an averah
lishma and the discussion of Horayos 10b?>>
The entire sugya deserves more extended remarks, but that particular
citation can be dealt with concisely. See the Maharsha ad. loc. citing an
unspecified Tosafos in Yevamos that Yael did not enjoy the event. He
construes "lishmah" to mean without physical pleasure. The Maharsha stops
there, bit I will add that the halacha is that a passive woman is guilty of
adultery only if she has pleasure (that's the sugya of Esther karka olam
haysa). So it's lack of physical pleasure that changed the potential
aveirah into a non-aveirah.
Incidentally, the Yalkut Shimoni (#44) disputes R. Yohanan's contention that Yael misbehaved.
But I think there's a more general issue. The sugya is clearly thinking in
terms of mitzvos; "lishmah" in the sugya means l'sheim mitzvah, not l'sheim
servitude to God. Now I think one can (and RYL has at least hinted in that
direction) try to argue that this is a distinction in terminology rather
than content, but I also think that anyone arguing that solving math
problems for pleasure is a kiyum mitzva is pushing that argument farther
than it ought to go.
David Riceman
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