Volume 30: Number 47
Tue, 22 May 2012
Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
Message: 1
From: Micha Berger <mi...@aishdas.org>
Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 18:28:45 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] L'shem Yichud
On Sun, May 20, 2012 at 03:12:09AM -0400, Zev Sero wrote:
> On 18/05/2012 1:33 PM, Micha Berger wrote:
>> In any case,
>> the concept of yichud hasheim is older than LeSheim Yichud.
> Also "ki yad al keis kah".
A lack of sheleimus (c.f. Rashi) or "ein hasheim malei" (Ramban) doesn't
necessarily mean two halves to be unified.
Tir'u baTov!
-Micha
Go to top.
Message: 2
From: "Rich, Joel" <JR...@sibson.com>
Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 14:50:56 -0400
Subject: [Avodah] Spending Maser Money on a Retreat
> "Shavuos At Sinai...Retreats" with Rabbi Orlowek and Rabbi Kelemen in
> Warrensberg
> Limited Scholarships are available. Please call 973.471.6351 to inquire for
> details on your rate based on your housing option You can use massur money
> for some of payment http://mim.io/519f92 for housing
Any idea why this would be eligible for maser money? (perhaps net profit
over cost which is used to fund other programs? Net difference in cost
from a private getaway in a similar location?)
KT
Joel Rich
Go to top.
Message: 3
From: Micha Berger <mi...@aishdas.org>
Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 18:51:13 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] Spending Maser Money on a Retreat
On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 02:50:56PM -0400, Rich, Joel wrote:
:> Limited Scholarships are available. Please call 973.471.6351 to inquire for
:> details on your rate based on your housing option You can use massur money
:> for some of payment http://mim.io/519f92 for housing
: Any idea why this would be eligible for maser money? ...
Maybe from the reisha "limited scholarships are available" which would
allow "maaser money for SOME of payment" (emphasis added).
Maaser kesafim is only for the poor, not for other charitable causes or
personal education. (The Rama is quite clear.)
I also don't know if we hold like the Maharil (maaser kesafim is
derabbanan) or the Bach (minhag). (Just to pick two names from a very
broad machloqes.) The latter would diminish how firm rules about what
one may spend maaser on are.
Tir'u baTov!
-Micha
--
Micha Berger Today is the 44th day, which is
mi...@aishdas.org 6 weeks and 2 days in/toward the omer.
http://www.aishdas.org Gevurah sheb'Malchus: What type of justice
Fax: (270) 514-1507 does unity demand?
Go to top.
Message: 4
From: Zev Sero <z...@sero.name>
Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 16:05:16 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] Fwd: Rabbi Hershel Schachter - True Freedom
On 21/05/2012 12:03 PM, Ben Waxman wrote:
> Is there any tshuva about army deferrals which cites this Rambam?
I don't know of any teshuvos about army deferrals altogether, but this
Rambam is constantly cited in discussions of the topic. But that's not
really relevant; you asked why the Rambam doesn't mention this exemption,
and I pointed out that he does. That's all. You expected to find it in
Hil' Melachim, but that's not how the Rambam works.
On 21/05/2012 12:03 PM, Ben Waxman wrote:
> I looked at Rav Moshe's psak on learning in kollel and taking money
> while learning. He doesn't cite this a heter. RM brings two reasons:
> we pasken against the Rambam or Et La'asot.
Ma inyan shmita etzel har sinai? The same Rambam who says not to take
money for learning says that learning does exempt one from army service.
--
Zev Sero
z...@sero.name
Go to top.
Message: 5
From: David Riceman <drice...@optimum.net>
Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 19:33:33 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] Avodah Digest, Vol 30, Issue 46
RMB:
> But still, it would be absurd to think one may impose tzaar on a
> person in a situation where it would be assur to do so to an animal.
>
>
The Havoth Yair says that very absurdity in the last paragraph of Siman
191 (cited recently by RCM) on the cogent grounds that a person can
understand the reason for the pain but the animal cannot.
David Riceman
Go to top.
Message: 6
From: Ben Waxman <ben1...@zahav.net.il>
Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 05:16:11 +0300
Subject: Re: [Avodah] Fwd: Rabbi Hershel Schachter - True Freedom
Exactly; the Rambam is brought up in discussions but not in a tshevua,
because it isn't a real proof of anything. It is your assertion that
this Rambam overrides other Rambams and that's it.
RAL doesn't know this Rambam and doesn't know that it overrides the
Hilchot Melachim? Doesn't sound reasonable.
Ben
On 5/21/2012 11:05 PM, Zev Sero wrote:
>
>
> I don't know of any teshuvos about army deferrals altogether, but this
> Rambam is constantly cited in discussions of the topic. But that's not
> really relevant; you asked why the Rambam doesn't mention this exemption,
> and I pointed out that he does. That's all. You expected to find it in
> Hil' Melachim, but that's not how the Rambam works.
Go to top.
Message: 7
From: David Wacholder <dwachol...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 02:05:07 -0400
Subject: [Avodah] L?shem Yichud
1.
1. Humbly, let me suggest that God's connection with us is the basic
mechanism of Torah and Mitzvoth. Active "Chai"
meaning going both ways and
reacting is the key description of God.
2. The active and repeated even continuous intercession
by Hashem is the basis of Tefila. It is the
Connection with God as an
ongoing "unit/gestalt/dyad" that is basic Judaism.
hashem's intercession
is the basis for the Relationship.
3. Locate the epicenter! Look in Jewish history, for the
very basis and bedrock foundation words. Build the
Tower of Judaism on the
following Pasuk. Here is where the Connection is
most expressed. Here is a
transcendental expression of the powerful connection
Am Yisrael has with
Hashem:
4. UKVOD HASHEM MALEH ES HAMISHKAN.
5. God's Glory filled the Mishkan.
6. ===The great majority of Jews cared that The Glory of
HVHY should fill the Mishkan - specifically the
Divine Fire should consume
the Korbon in the Dedication of the Mishkan; Eliyahu
demonstrated that the
Divine Fire ate the sacrifices on Har Hakarmel.
7. It showed - that Hashem cares and is deeply involved
in caring for his people.
8. Just like a new-born does not question why his
mother's Yichus - - the mother is there, the mother
is the entire world.
Only a grown up adult and independent being,
suddenly realizes that "my
parents are unique and special individuals". That is
a weak metaphor I
admit. .
9. The Child has one question - is my mother here? If I
call will she come? Who will feed me?
10. They will never arrive at anything near Rav Saadya's
problems, much less their solutions. They are well
into REM sleep in the
Table of Contents. Only the Rambam's dearest
students are still avidly
listening to Part 3 Chapter 51..7 of the Moreh. Only
there does the Rambam
allow picturing the One.
11. Rashi's Ehkeh - is that I care and will be there for
you again and again. Rashbam's idea of Hashem is
one - based on what it
says in Rashbam al hatorah - means he focuses on us
with complete
dedication. We need not look for any other Power or
SuperPower to save us.
12. A Non-Covenantal - also located outside the borders
called Eretz Hakodesh - not growing crops in Eretz
Hakodesh - that
"non-covenantalist" can with good conscience expect
help from Other Powers
besides the One.
13. For a Jew - a Ben Bris - that would be Treason -
Stoning doesn't begin to fit the crime.
14. In the teeth of the inquisition, Rashba moderated a
bit.
15. Rashba in Chidushim al Hahagados is but a thin
little section in the Blue set of Rashba from Mosad
Harav Kook. Likely it
was one of the most widely copied and read works in
the Sephardic world.
To explain the idea of the Jews prior to Yetziat
Mitzrayim. The RASHB"A -
apologetically advances that line of thought. What
is betrayal and treason
for the High Officers of teh Palace - is not a venal
act when performed by
the guards in a far off outpost. They are not the
Ro'ei Pnei hamelech - the
intimates of the Palace.
1.
2. RSG saw the One as identical or similar to the Perfect.
Being of philosophical ideas.
3. Some interpreted RSG as believing that the Oneness is a
Perfect Being. The Perfect One - indescribably perfect
and One - was also
isolated - He was so perfect in fact that He created a
liaison, called
Kavod or Kvod HVYH. The One remains immutable and
unapproachable. Any
tzimtum comes by his command to the createe called
"Kavod". This nivra, the
real Step-Down Unit, is on the Throne as described in
Maaseh Merkava. Kavod
Nivra was able to connect with the material world. This
allows the Great
Oneness to remain Ideal. Admittedly, this is an
over-simplification, but
quite a popular one.
4. ==The idea that the Jew is commanded to mend Hashem's
broken Unity - again I over-simplify lest I flutter
away and The Creation
called Man has the power to reverse engineer Hashem's
Oneness - and talk
casually about it - is much more of a "Mahapchani"
doctrine than we give it
credit for. We hide behind the Great Rabbis of old -
who did run a Repair
Shop. \
5. The Chasidei Ashkenaz - specifically Rav Yehudah Chasid
as explained by Rokei'ach - claimed they discovered RSG
and now became
devoted followers. Baalei Teshuvah Saadayanites.
6. Until further notice - Saadyanites - or whatever the
moniker - say Hashem Echad hashem is unreachable. It is
not comprehensible
in material terms.
7. So why and how is it uniquely Jewish? Only the Jews
really believe it and live by it.
8. The simpler meaning of that is that the One is above our
ability to affect Him.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.aishdas.org/pipermail/avod
ah-aishdas.org/attachments/20120522/e8418fee/attachment-0001.htm>
Go to top.
Message: 8
From: Ben Waxman <ben1...@zahav.net.il>
Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 05:22:15 +0300
Subject: Re: [Avodah] Fwd: Rabbi Hershel Schachter - True Freedom
I'd just like to point out that in the past you used the Rambam in
Shmitta to justify kollel payments. But just like (at least) one posek
sees no connection between that Rambam and taking money to learn, so too
there is no connection between that Rambam and deferring army service.
Ben
On 5/21/2012 11:05 PM, Zev Sero wrote:
>
>> I looked at Rav Moshe's psak on learning in kollel and taking money
>> while learning. He doesn't cite this a heter. RM brings two reasons:
>> we pasken against the Rambam or Et La'asot.
>
> Ma inyan shmita etzel har sinai? The same Rambam who says not to take
> money for learning says that learning does exempt one from army service.
>
Go to top.
Message: 9
From: Zev Sero <z...@sero.name>
Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 22:28:02 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] Fwd: Rabbi Hershel Schachter - True Freedom
On 21/05/2012 10:16 PM, Ben Waxman wrote:
> Exactly; the Rambam is brought up in discussions but not in a tshevua,
First show me a teshuva on the subject at all. I don't know of any.
If there were a teshuva on the subject then it would have to cite this
Rambam.
> because it isn't a real proof of anything. It is your assertion that
> this Rambam overrides other Rambams and that's it.
It doesn't override, it doesn't contradict. This Rambam says that
Shevet Levi and all who join them don't serve. He has no need to
repeat it later, so kedarko he doesn't; he expects you to remember it.
> RAL doesn't know this Rambam and doesn't know that it overrides the Hilchot Melachim? Doesn't sound reasonable.
I don't know whether he addresses it at all, or what he says about it
if so, but it speaks for itself.
--
Zev Sero "Natural resources are not finite in any meaningful
z...@sero.name economic sense, mind-boggling though this assertion
may be. The stocks of them are not fixed but rather
are expanding through human ingenuity."
- Julian Simon
Go to top.
Message: 10
From: Harvey Benton <harvw...@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 23:34:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Avodah] 7000) +-
oznas ben keniel (?) came up with
halachat after Moshe rabeinu
passed away.....my?question is,
what percentage of halachot were
actually lost, that he had to recover
(??eg, there were no toldos, rabannans
(decrees) shitas or various sorts etc,?
it seems that though?he recovered many]
in actual; number, how many in actual
percentage?at that time?????
hb
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.aishdas.org/pipermail/avod
ah-aishdas.org/attachments/20120521/0ef1711d/attachment-0001.htm>
Go to top.
Message: 11
From: Zev Sero <z...@sero.name>
Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 09:14:32 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] Fwd: Rabbi Hershel Schachter - True Freedom
On 21/05/2012 10:22 PM, Ben Waxman wrote:
> I'd just like to point out that in the past you used the Rambam in
> Shmitta to justify kollel payments. But just like (at least) one posek
> sees no connection between that Rambam and taking money to learn, so
> too there is no connection between that Rambam and deferring army
> service.
He says explicitly that they don't go out to war! How can there be
"no connection"?!
--
Zev Sero "Natural resources are not finite in any meaningful
z...@sero.name economic sense, mind-boggling though this assertion
may be. The stocks of them are not fixed but rather
are expanding through human ingenuity."
- Julian Simon
Go to top.
Message: 12
From: Micha Berger <mi...@aishdas.org>
Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 10:33:24 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] 7000) +-
On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 11:34:30PM -0700, Harvey Benton wrote:
: oznas ben keniel (?) came up with halachat after Moshe rabeinu
Osniel ben Kenaz recreated 3,000 halakhos.
: my question is, what percentage of halachot were actually lost, that he
: had to recover ( eg, there were no toldos, rabannans (decrees) shitas
: or various sorts etc,
Why do you say their were no tolados?
And there may have been MORE shitos. There were fewer things that a
poseiq said must be one way or the other. But in any case, it would
mean fewer specific halakhos.
There are 1,715 si'manim in the SA. I con't know how many se'ifim that
comes to. But my GUESS is that of the SA, 3,000 halakhos is around 10%
in very round numbers.
The Rambam comes to something like 15,000 halakhos, so that 3,000 would
be 20%.
But odds are 3,000 is a symbolic rather than literal number.
Tir'u baTov!
-Micha
--
Micha Berger Today is the 45th day, which is
mi...@aishdas.org 6 weeks and 3 days in/toward the omer.
http://www.aishdas.org Tifferes sheb'Malchus: What is the beauty of
Fax: (270) 514-1507 unity (on all levels of relationship)?
Go to top.
Message: 13
From: Doron Beckerman <beck...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 18:01:05 +0300
Subject: Re: [Avodah] Fwd: Rabbi Hershel Schachter - True Freedom
RBW writes:
>> I don't see how you conclude anything definite from this tshuva. <<
You can definitely conclude that it is not at all clear that the wars of
Israel today have the status of Milchemes Mitzvah (because there are many
potential components necessary to launch such a war). Which is what I said.
Ben
On 5/13/2012 6:48 AM, Doron Beckerman wrote:
> It is worth noting that it is not at all clear that the wars of Israel
> today have the status of a Milchemes Mitzvah. See Igros Moshe Choshen
> Mishpat II:78.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.aishdas.org/pipermail/avod
ah-aishdas.org/attachments/20120522/e82bdac5/attachment-0001.htm>
Go to top.
Message: 14
From: Doron Beckerman <beck...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 18:36:22 +0300
Subject: Re: [Avodah] Fwd: Rav Herschel Schachter - true freedom
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Doron Beckerman <beck...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, May 22, 2012 at 6:35 PM
Subject: Re: Fwd: Rav Herschel Schachter - true freedom
To: The General Discussion Area for Avodah <arei...@lists.aishdas.org>
>> I looked at Rav Moshe's psak on learning in kollel and taking money
while learning. He doesn't cite this a heter. RM brings two reasons: we
pasken against the Rambam or Et La'asot.
Is there any tshuva about army deferrals which cites this Rambam? <<
R' YM Tikuczinsky
http://www.he
brewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=13429&;hilite=2ec410b3-7cab-4f7a-808
c-cb309831cfef&st=%d7%9e%d7%9c%d7%97%d7%9e%d7%aa+%d7%9e%d7%a6%d7%95%d7%
94&pgnum=285
And Harav Yitzcak Arieli of Merkaz Harav in Einayim Lamishpat to Bava Basra
7b
http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14862&;st=&pgnum=29
Either way, Rav Moshe held that Yeshiva students are absolved from army
service in Israel. See IM Yoreh Deah IV:33.
http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14679&;st=&pgnum=263
See also Igrot Haraayah 85
http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=43827&;st=&pgnum=261
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.aishdas.org/pipermail/avod
ah-aishdas.org/attachments/20120522/56858fff/attachment-0001.htm>
Go to top.
Message: 15
From: Simon Montagu <simon.mont...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 18:50:55 +0300
Subject: [Avodah] Yerushalayim Banerot
My brother-in-law said the following at a simcha yesterday evening:
Zephania 1:12 says "ahapes et Yerushalaim banerot", and the gematria
of "nerot" is equal to the number of times in which Jerusalem is
mentioned in the Bible.
A cute vort if you like that kind of thing, and I am probably spoiling
it by checking up, but it doesn't seem to fit the facts.
The gematria of "nerot" is 656
Even Shoshan's concordance gives "Yerushalaim" 641 times and
"Yerushlem" in the Aramaic sections 26 times for a total of 667.
BDB gives 644 and 25 for a total of 669.
"egrep -o ixeyli*[mn] | wc -l" in a text file that I downloaded years
ago from the Hebrew U with all of Tanach in "hebrew oldcode" (does
anybody else remember that?) also gives 669.
Googling I found a couple of sites that say that Jerusalem is
mentioned 656 times, with or without the gematria, but no more
details.
Does anybody have more info, especially some kvetch to make the
gematria fit the total?
Go to top.
Message: 16
From: Micha Berger <mi...@aishdas.org>
Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 12:22:17 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] torture in halacha???
On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 07:33:33PM -0400, David Riceman wrote:
> RMB:
>> But still, it would be absurd to think one may impose tzaar on a
>> person in a situation where it would be assur to do so to an animal.
> The Havoth Yair says that very absurdity in the last paragraph of Siman
> 191 (cited recently by RCM) on the cogent grounds that a person can
> understand the reason for the pain but the animal cannot.
I don't see the CY as disagreeing with what I wrote as much as spelling
out a nuance I hadn't:
There are situation where one may cause more physical pain to a human
being than to an animal in the same situation, or can cause physical
pain at all to a person where one couldn't to an animal, simply because
the person could understand your justification and therefore is less
mitzta'er.
But that only works if the person actually is capable of hearing your
reason and "leisovei daateih uleqabeil mei'avah asher yeia'ara lo". I
don't see how his exception to the qv"ch's reasoning would apply to
torture.
Tir'u baTov!
-Micha
--
Micha Berger Today is the 45th day, which is
mi...@aishdas.org 6 weeks and 3 days in/toward the omer.
http://www.aishdas.org Tifferes sheb'Malchus: What is the beauty of
Fax: (270) 514-1507 unity (on all levels of relationship)?
------------------------------
Avodah mailing list
Avo...@lists.aishdas.org
http://lists.aishdas.org/listinfo.cgi/avodah-aishdas.org
End of Avodah Digest, Vol 30, Issue 47
**************************************
Send Avodah mailing list submissions to
avodah@lists.aishdas.org
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://lists.aishdas.org/listinfo.cgi/avodah-aishdas.org
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
avodah-request@lists.aishdas.org
You can reach the person managing the list at
avodah-owner@lists.aishdas.org
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Avodah digest..."