Avodah Mailing List

Volume 29: Number 33

Mon, 05 Mar 2012

• 1. Re: Zmanim for Ta'aniyos (Micha Berger)
• 2. Re: [Areivim] chareidi soldiers in zahal (kennethgmil...@juno.com)
• 3. Re: [Areivim] chareidi soldiers in zahal (Liron Kopinsky)
• 4. Re: Association of Positive Mitzvot with Days of Year? (Zev Sero)
• 5. Re: Association of Positive Mitzvot with Days of Year? (Micha Berger)
• 6. Re: Association of Positive Mitzvot with Days of Year? (Zev Sero)
• 7. Re: [Areivim] chareidi soldiers in zahal (Rich, Joel)
• 8. Swept away, r"l (Micha Berger)
• 9. Re: Swept away, r"l (Micha Berger)
• 10. IDF (Eli Turkel)
• 11. a poignant question (T6...@aol.com)
• 12. Characterizing our era (Jonathan Baker)
• 13. Matanos leEvyonim and Yerushalayim (Micha Berger)
• 14. Humor in the Torah (Prof. Levine)
• 15. Parshas Ki Sisa: Rav Shimon Schwab - Mordechai's Brings Real Freedom For His Nation (Prof. Levine)
• 16. KELEV HAYAM - SEA DOG: (T6...@aol.com)

I should have thought of this before hitting send. R Gil Student has a
great explanation of the machloqes, much of which I assumed y'all know
already, at <http://www.aishdas.org/toratemet/en_pamphlet4.html>.

-Micha

R' Liron Kopinsky asked:

> But if you are actively chasing a terrorist, and every second
> is precious, why would there even be a question as to whether
> you should ask a shaila at the moment?

and in a later post, he asked:

> I can't figure out what the issue with a female pilot could
> possibly be. She's in the front and they're in the back.

Could the issue possibly be yichud?

I don't know the construction of such helicopters, but my wild guess was
that the soldiers feared that being in the helicopter and/or being at the
helicopter's destination with a female pilot might constitute yichud, AND
they feared that this yichud might be yehareg v'al yaavor thus trumping the
urgent need to get the terrorist.

I am NOT saying that this WAS their question, nor am I suggesting that it
is a good question, nor am I doing anything other than other than making a
guess on what their question might have been.

Akiva Miller

____________________________________________________________
53 Year Old Mom Looks 33
The Stunning Results of Her Wrinkle Trick Has Botox Doctors Worried
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4f4ff8749cf6e1af3b6ast02vuc

On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 7:47 PM, Ben Waxman <ben1...@zahav.net.il> wrote:

> And if it had been a female communication specialist, or a female medic,
> or a female tracker or a whatever, they would have had an issue?
>

Taking it out of the emergency chasing-a-terrorist situation here, I
can't really
figure out what halachik issue there could possibly be to have a female
pilot fly you around anyway. Yichud doesn't make sense. Maybe negiya if
you're pressed up close, which would possibly apply to a medic or another
soldier in your platoon, but not to a pilot, but then, if the medic is
working on you, it's probably ok anyway.

Maybe just pure concerns for hirhurim, but then you would really
expect soldiers
on a mission to be focused on the mission. Or maybe with all the testosterone
from in-the-heat battle it would be a bigger concern than normal?

Kol Tuv,
Liron
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On 29/02/2012 10:27 PM, Micha Berger wrote:
> Look for R' Yosi bei R' Bun's attempt to prove that R' Yosi bar Chanina
> must hold like Shemuel, and R' Yehoshua ben Levi like R' Yochanan.
> He then quotes R' Yochanan as saying someone who is maqdish his nechasim
> and it includes qetores, it can be used. RYBC argues that he must hold
> like RYBL who says qetores could be made in chol vessels. Because if
> it had to made in qadosh vessels, how could this guy's private stash be
> kosher for qetores? R' Hosheia disspells the linkage; it's possible R'
> Yochanan is talking about someone from Beis Avtimas. Because Beis Avtimas
> DID take the stuff home, and therefore he could have a private stash of
> qetores that was made in the BHMQ's keilim.


Look again; he is referring to the time between when they are paid with
ketores and they sell it back.

-- 
Zev Sero        "Natural resources are not finite in any meaningful
z...@sero.name    economic sense, mind-boggling though this assertion
                  may be. The stocks of them are not fixed but rather
                 are expanding through human ingenuity."
                                            - Julian Simon

On Thu, Mar 01, 2012 at 06:09:40PM -0500, Zev Sero wrote:
>>                     R' Hosheia disspells the linkage; it's possible R'
>> Yochanan is talking about someone from Beis Avtimas. Because Beis Avtimas
>> DID take the stuff home, and therefore he could have a private stash of
>> qetores that was made in the BHMQ's keilim.

> Look again; he is referring to the time between when they are paid with
> ketores and they sell it back.

Where is that?

I was more comfortable with RYZ's answer that only the vast majority was
rebought. I don't see that in the gemara either, but at least it explains
why it has no real impact on how quickly the shirayim accumulate.

-Micha

On 1/03/2012 8:28 PM, Micha Berger wrote:
>> Look again; he is referring to the time between when they are paid with
>> >  ketores and they sell it back.
> Where is that?

See Korban Ha`edah dh "be'uman shel Beis Avtinas"

-- 
Zev Sero        "Natural resources are not finite in any meaningful
z...@sero.name    economic sense, mind-boggling though this assertion
                  may be. The stocks of them are not fixed but rather
                 are expanding through human ingenuity."
                                            - Julian Simon

And if it had been a female communication specialist, or a female medic, or a female tracker or a whatever, they would have had an issue?

Taking it out of the emergency chasing-a-terrorist situation here, I can't
really figure out what halachik issue there could possibly be to have a
female pilot fly you around anyway. Yichud doesn't make sense. Maybe negiya
if you're pressed up close, which would possibly apply to a medic or
another soldier in your platoon, but not to a pilot, but then, if the medic
is working on you, it's probably ok anyway.

Maybe just pure concerns for hirhurim, but then you would really expect
soldiers on a mission to be focused on the mission. Or maybe with all the
testosterone from in-the-heat battle it would be a bigger concern than
normal?
-----------------------------------------------------
My Occam's razor says the best guess is that they were taught lo plug (perhaps like adam to chavah don't eat/don't touch - and we know where that ended up)
KT
Joel Rich
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From Yeshiva World News:

    Modi'in Illit Girl Niftar After Being Swept Away in Nachal
    Friday, March 2nd, 2012

    14:20PM IL: A 7 year old girl has R"L been Niftar from injuries
    sustained after being swept away in a Nachal. The girl, a resident
    of Modi'in Illit, was with her father watching the rising river,
    when she fell in and was swept away.

    As YWN ISRAEL reported earlier, she was found approximately an hour
    later, after an extensive search involving many emergency rescue
    personnel. She was rushed to the hospital in critical condition,
    but was R"L Niftar a short while ago.

    Boruch Dayan Emmes...

:-)BBii!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Feeling grateful  to or appreciative of  someone
mi...@aishdas.org        or something in your life actually attracts more
http://www.aishdas.org   of the things that you appreciate and value into
Fax: (270) 514-1507      your life.         - Christiane Northrup, M.D.

On Fri, Mar 02, 2012 at 12:12:49PM -0500, Micha Berger wrote:
: >From Yeshiva World News:

This post was copied to Areivim, where I intended to send it.

-Micha

I find this whole discussion of charedim in the IDF very strange. We are
not dealing with summer camp here but a working army with thousands of
people of which the charedi group is a small (tiny) part.

Soldiers are grouped into small units (machlaka) which are part of a pluga
which are part of a gedud etc. In a typical training base there are many
different groups and someone is in charge of planning for this combination.
From my experience in basic training (eons ago) the toilets are holes in
the ground and not modern toilet facilities. They can become quite filthy
and smelly. I remember people who would not use the facilities if they were
going home that weekend. One group is in charge of cleaning all the
bathrooms for a period of time. It is just almost impossible to start
rearranging schedules so one group does only the men bathrooms and one
finds some other group to do the women's bathroom. One does not rearrange
the army so they these guys dont do women's bathrooms.

Similarly pilots are on some sort of rotation. The guy in charge has better
things to do than to switch the entire rotation because some few soldiers
dont want a female pilot.
Any such change affects many other factors, it is a non-trivial change. I
was just in Shaare Tzedek hospital which is used by many charedim. There
are female nurses and doctors all over the place. I didnt see any charedim
requesting not to be handled by a woman physician even though it was not
pikuach nefesh. Any charedi who works for some general organization can not
expect the entire organization to make basic changes that affect the entire
running of the organization and would reduce efficiency because someone
doesnt want to be together with a woman. There are local changes that can
be made. Thus, when basic training is set up the officer of the charedi
unit is a male officer etc. However, this does not guarantee that during
all army operations there will never under all circumstances be women
around.

-- 
Eli Turkel
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Last night at the chevra kadisha seuda a lady who is already a  grandmother 
asked me a somewhat sad question. She told me that both her  parents had 
died within nine months, when she was 14 years old, and they had not  had a 
tahara. In fact they had had open caskets with a public viewing (which of  
course we would consider a bizayon). She asked me if this meant that her 
parents  could not rest in peace? A poignant question. 
 
Does it matter to the niftar really?  I don't know.

 
I reassured her that whatever discomfort had been caused to them by not  
having a proper Jewish burial no longer mattered and was long since over and  
done with, they are in the next world now. I also reassured her by telling 
her  that in a civilized country she can assume her parents were washed and 
dressed  before burial, even goyim do so, so she should set her mind to rest. 
I should  have added that even though they weren't frum, her parents are 
having nachas  from seeing her and her children and grandchildren living frum  
lives.

 
--Toby Katz
=============
Romney -- good values, good  family, good  hair


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(reading back issues from August 2011)

RMi:
>the shoa is the dividing line

Is it, though?  It's A dividing line, sure, but do eras really have 
dividing lines?  I think we discussed this some years ago, and it seems
there are transition periods between the major periods, and that major
codes often characterize the transitions: the Mishna, the Gemara, the
Rambam, the SA.  But I think the trasition period started around 1870,
with the unification of Germany, which seems to have triggered the 
mass migrations of Jews that led up through the 1950s.  That's the

- beginning of the Eastern European migration to the US, 
- the beginning of modern Zionism sending people to Eretz Israel, 
- a transition in the European yeshivot
      (Volozhin closed in 1891,
       the Mussar schools opened:
          Slobodka opened in 1881, 
          Novardok in 1895, and 
       Tomchei Temimim, meant to teach the Lubavitch meditative
          practice, opened in 1896)
- a transition in the US to building its own rabbinate, with HUC and JTSA
     and much later, RIETS.

Both the MB and AhS were written during this period, 1881-1907.  WWI
caused huge upheavals in Europe, and led directly to WW2 and the economic
conditions that allowed the rize of Nazism, which led to the founding of
the State of Israel, which led to the Jews being expelled from the Arab
countries and coming to Israel.  So the Shoa (qua Hurban Europe) was not 
actually a dividing line for everybody.

Debbie's comment: we can't characterize our own era, that's for others 
to do a century down the line.

And the eras we're talking about are intellectual, not cultural or
social, which were in constant turmoil.  1492 was a big transformer,
which led to the Sefardi diaspora and greater Sefardi influence on 
Ashkenazic halacha and Mediterranean Jewish practice.  Shabtai Tzvi
was a big transformer, which led to Hasidism.  Enlightenment/Emanci-
pation was a big transformer, which led to Reform.  They're heavily-
 intertwined, inasmuch as Spinoza is part of the Spanish converso
return culture, and was one of the early philosophers whose thought
led to Enlightenment.  Hasidic looseness with halacha legitimized
Reform looseness with halacha.  Etc.

--
        name: jon baker              web: http://www.panix.com/~jjbaker
     address: jjba...@panix.com     blog: http://thanbook.blogspot.com

Matanos le'evyonim must be received on Purim.

With the option of remote transfer of funds, this raises interesting
possibilities. Am I yotzei if:

1- I wire money to a Yerushalmi ani on Purim, even though he is receiving
it when it's not yet Shushan Purim?

2- I wire money to him on Shushan Purim, even though I didn't send any
aniyim money on my Purim?

2a- What if the giver is a Yerushalmi, and he sends money for an ani
outside Y-m to make his se'udah on Purim? (This is unlike the prior
case in that he didn't let his Purim pass without giving anything --
he gave before rather than after his own Shushan Purim.)

and if the answer to either of the above is "no":
3- I send money on Purim that he receives on Shushan Purim?

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

There are times when I have heard people downplay humor,  even giving
the impression that humor is not appropriate for observant Jews.

Yet there does seem to be a place for humor within Torah Judaism.  Go
to http://www.yutorah.org/  and put humor in the search box and a
list of shiurim dealing with humor in the Torah.  YL

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 From http://revach.net/article.php?id=5215

The gemara in Chulin 139b says that Mordechai HaTzaddik is hinted at 
in the Torah in the pasuk (Ki Sisa 30:23) of the sweet fragrance used 
for the Shemen Mishcha called "Mor Dror". The Targum is Meira Dachya 
which sounds like "Mordechai". Rashi says the Mor Dror is the first 
of the Besamim as are the Tzaddikim.

Rav Shimon Schwab asks why do we need to base this on the Targum and 
not suffice with the words of the Torah? He answers that Dror means 
freedom. We may mistakenly think that Mordechai's greatness was that 
he helped Klal Yisroel gain a measure of freedom. In reality they 
were still slaves of Achashveirosh even after Haman's downfall. 
Rather Mordechai's greatness was that he helped Klal Yisroel gain 
spiritual freedom and kept them pure which is the meaning of the word 
"Dachya" that Targum uses to translate Dror.

The meaning of true freedom for Klal Yisroel as transmitted from 
generation to generation has nothing to do with our political status 
or self governance in our own homeland. The only true freedom is 
breaking free from the pressures around us to serve Hashem with 
purity. This freedom can be achieved anytime and anywhere under any 
circumstances. We need not the recognition of the world nor do we 
need definable borders. Mordechai taught us this in the dark Galus of 
Paras, and with that became the true father of the nation and model 
for all future true Jewish revolutionaries.

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"Rosh Hashanah--Its Significance, Laws, and Prayers: A  Presentation"
The ArtScroll book introduction has this paragraph, defining the Mishna's  
"sea dog" (kelev hayam) as a walrus. (A recent speaker I heard said  the 
kelev hayam is a seal.)  Nice vort about how the creature lives in the  sea but 
runs to dry land when threatened, where you run to defines you, so too  
Jews, though estranged from G-d, run to Him when threatened -- something like  
that.  Is the walrus really a sea creature?  It can sleep in  water, resting 
its head on an ice floe or even sleeping underwater (but must  surface 
every five minutes to breathe).  It usually sleeps on  land.   Does it have 
enemies in the water?  Does it run  to land when chased?  My husband says if it 
sleeps on land it is NOT a sea  creature and the nice vort loses its edge -- 
unless the kelev hayam is not a  walrus?  Has anything been written 
somewhere about what creature the  kelev hayam might be?

 
_http://books.google.com/books?id=u-bTGGSsdrIC&;pg=PA38&lpg=PA38&dq=sea+dog+t
almud&source=bl&ots=rKeITrrgzH&sig=21hgYf_UA4NoXsi9Pb_zVqn2bTM&hl=en&sa=X&ei
=yjFUT6zGEovBtge99NWzDQ&ved=0CCUQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=sea%20dog%20talmud&f=fal
se_ 
(http://books.googl
e.com/books?id=u-bTGGSsdrIC&;pg=PA38&lpg=PA38&dq=sea+dog+tal
mud&source=bl&ots=rKeITrrgzH&sig=21hgYf_UA4NoXsi9Pb_zVqn2bTM&am
p;hl=en&sa=
X&ei=yjFUT6zGEovBtge99NWzDQ&ved=0CCUQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=sea%20dog%20talmud&f
=false) 

 
or


 
_http://tinyurl.com/847eeb8_ (http://tinyurl.com/847eeb8) 

 

--Toby Katz
=============
Romney -- good values, good family, good  hair


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